Another Mopar Off My Bucket List - Barracuda Fastback

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65dartcharger said:
You've done a great job so far. I really like the race look on the car! Keep up the good work!
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I feel like I'm cheating when I see the meticulous detailing on your '65. There were so many pieces that I thought you were screwed on before you reconditioned them. I really thought you'd end up replacing parts that you ended up bringing back to life.

It's hard for me to imagine how difficult it's got to be finding parts over there. I know how hard it is here. One of the big advantages of working with a 'race car' theme is that I don't have to worry about hunting down all of the right parts that restorations like yours call for. It's another reason I feel like I'm 'cheating' on this build.

- By the way, - the Dart Charger looks awesome! I'd never heard of one until I found your thread. It took me awhile to realize that it wasn't just a nickname you'd put on a regular Dart.
 
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BACK TO THE DASH

It may sound like a new Michael J Fox movie but it's just me getting back to working on the instrument cluster.

I didn't get a whole lot accomplished. My son came home from Iowa and we ended up spending the day trying to figure out how to put smaller wheels on his Challenger. Yes, I know that sounds ***-backwards but he wants to rid himself of the 20" wheels and install 15s instead. It's an SRT8 with those huge Brembo brakes on it. I'm not sure we'd be able to fit anything smaller than 18s. So we tried to figure out an economical way to reverse engineer it.

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Before we could measure things we had to remove the Challenger wheels. That took a few hours. Whoever put the wheels on had screwed up the lug nuts. The factory lugs have a stainless steel covering that will spin on the lug if the correct size socket isn't used. It took a combination of several socket sizes to get them off. (they call for a 21mm socket) In some cases we had to hammer the sockets onto the nuts. We bought aftermarket replacements from NAPA that are solid.

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The Drag Pack Challengers ran 15" wheels but the brake components are specialty items made by Strange Engineering. With some advice from SNKEBIT we started checking into brake setups from the 2006 V6 Chargers. They ran 17" wheels on them. It may be the most economical way to fit smaller wheels. I don't know yet how much it will take to change things over.

I should have stated the reasons he wants to make the swap. First of all as much as he likes the Challengers, he's not a big fan of big diameter wheels. The second reason has to do with his inability to get traction in snow. Those 20's don't seem to be available with an aggressive (snow friendly) tread pattern. They're great for handling on good pavement but he's been getting stuck in 1" of snow. He's hoping more tread options will be available for the smaller tires.

OK. BACK TO THE DASH

I decided to retain the cluster housing and use it as the starting point for mounting the round gauges. After disassembling it I used a 3" cut off wheel to chop out the areas that I no longer would need. I cut down all of the mounting posts and started smoothing down any raised areas from the old gauges. I did leave the mount for the headlight switch.

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I made a paper template that I will use as my guide for the aluminum panel that will house the new gauges. While I was at it I made another template for the section of dash that still had the radio and heater control holes. I will move the fuel pump switch, kill switch, and start button over there.

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For the price of changing brakes and all the hardware going from the 20's to 15's not to mention the huge loss in handling and stopping. I would get myself a late model dodge truck 4x4 or jeep 4x4 for the winter and save my precious gem of an SRT Challenger any snow duty. Just my two cents we have the 300 pictured and yeah she sucks in the snow even with 18's and the 8 speed v6. Terrible car in the snow and ice. I have a 2011 4x4 Ram I run for that duty but NE Oklahoma winters have to be far more mild than Nebraska. Great job on the cars BTW your doing a killer job!
 
4.7Light said:
For the price of changing brakes and all the hardware going from the 20's to 15's not to mention the huge loss in handling and stopping. I would get myself a late model dodge truck 4x4 or jeep 4x4 for the winter and save my precious gem of an SRT Challenger any snow duty. Just my two cents we have the 300 pictured and yeah she sucks in the snow even with 18's and the 8 speed v6. Terrible car in the snow and ice. I have a 2011 4x4 Ram I run for that duty but NE Oklahoma winters have to be far more mild than Nebraska. Great job on the cars BTW your doing a killer job!
Click to expand...

After about 20 hours of online research my son is beginning to think that there is no practical means of achieving his original goal. 15" wheels don't seem to be attainable without a major cash outlay. The change in brakes don't look like they'll give him enough room to run anything smaller than 'some' 17s. The limitation of styles that would fit eliminate several of the styles he liked.

So he's back to looking at 18" to 20" wheels that he prefers over the ones on the car now. His next big question will be whether or not he can find a tire with tread that will suit winter driving conditions better. Any suggestions?
 
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After all of the discussion regarding brakes and wheels for the Challenger we decided to put off any major changes and see if we couldn't find some 20" tires that would get by until better weather. Bridgestone makes a P245/45R20 Blizzak LM-32 radial that is supposed to work in snow. - - - We'll see... Thanks for the suggestions. (including the ones over the phone)

I transferred the templates onto some aluminum scrap and cut a few pieces. At first I was going to polish both fill pieces and tint them, but now I think I will only tint the one around the gauges. I'll paint the other one black and hopefully it'll blend into the rest of the dash. Too much mirror like finish might make too much glare.

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The steering wheel spokes had been painted before. There were some signs of rust pitting that still showed through. I sanded the paint off and found that the original brushed satin finish was actually a plated surface. The bad news is that those pits won't be able to be sanded smooth without removing that plating. The sorta good thing is that the pitting is not real extensive and the plated surface will give better results with the tint.

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My son still maintains that the Duster just isn't cool. He believes that dedicated race cars are a waste of money and if I wanted it to be cool I'd have to put it back on the street.

I told him that the lights still function and that I've got an exhaust system that came with the car when I bought it.

He replied that if it was his he'd license it then and drive it.
:burnout:

I said it would look too weird with all of the graphics and lettering.
:wack:

He said he'd drive it anyway.
:burnout:

My feeling is that enough folks in town already think I'm nuts. I feel that it would be like hanging out a sign to convince the rest.

:tard:
 

SNKEBIT said:
I drove the Sox & Martin car all over. Didn't bother me a bit. :burnout:
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Maybe I'm starting to cross over into old fart status. The color for the Barracuda was a pretty conservative choice.
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I dunno... I've had a tendency to own (and drive) a lot of vehicles that weren't wallflowers in the past. -It could be that I just never crossed that line of putting an actual race car on the street.

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Hmmm... I can't stop the aging process without resorting to a journey to the great beyond, but I want to sidestep the whole geezer thing. Maybe I should throw caution to the wind and build a street funnycar.

I can hear the boys coming with the straight jackets already.


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1967 'cuda said:
Maybe I'm starting to cross over into old fart status. The color for the Barracuda was a pretty conservative choice.
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I dunno... I've had a tendency to own (and drive) a lot of vehicles that weren't wallflowers in the past. -It could be that I just never crossed that line of putting an actual race car on the street.

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Hmmm... I can't stop the aging process without resorting to a journey to the great beyond, but I want to sidestep the whole geezer thing. Maybe I should throw caution to the wind and build a street funnycar.

I can hear the boys coming with the straight jackets already.
Click to expand...



SSHHHHHH!!!!! I hear a white van pulling up.......................#-o
 
1967 'cuda said:
BACK TO THE DASH

It may sound like a new Michael J Fox movie but it's just me getting back to working on the instrument cluster.

I didn't get a whole lot accomplished. My son came home from Iowa and we ended up spending the day trying to figure out how to put smaller wheels on his Challenger. Yes, I know that sounds ***-backwards but he wants to rid himself of the 20" wheels and install 15s instead. It's an SRT8 with those huge Brembo brakes on it. I'm not sure we'd be able to fit anything smaller than 18s. So we tried to figure out an economical way to reverse engineer it.

View attachment 1714770302

Before we could measure things we had to remove the Challenger wheels. That took a few hours. Whoever put the wheels on had screwed up the lug nuts. The factory lugs have a stainless steel covering that will spin on the lug if the correct size socket isn't used. It took a combination of several socket sizes to get them off. (they call for a 21mm socket) In some cases we had to hammer the sockets onto the nuts. We bought aftermarket replacements from NAPA that are solid.

View attachment 1714770303

The Drag Pack Challengers ran 15" wheels but the brake components are specialty items made by Strange Engineering. With some advice from SNKEBIT we started checking into brake setups from the 2006 V6 Chargers. They ran 17" wheels on them. It may be the most economical way to fit smaller wheels. I don't know yet how much it will take to change things over.

I should have stated the reasons he wants to make the swap. First of all as much as he likes the Challengers, he's not a big fan of big diameter wheels. The second reason has to do with his inability to get traction in snow. Those 20's don't seem to be available with an aggressive (snow friendly) tread pattern. They're great for handling on good pavement but he's been getting stuck in 1" of snow. He's hoping more tread options will be available for the smaller tires.

OK. BACK TO THE DASH

I decided to retain the cluster housing and use it as the starting point for mounting the round gauges. After disassembling it I used a 3" cut off wheel to chop out the areas that I no longer would need. I cut down all of the mounting posts and started smoothing down any raised areas from the old gauges. I did leave the mount for the headlight switch.

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I made a paper template that I will use as my guide for the aluminum panel that will house the new gauges. While I was at it I made another template for the section of dash that still had the radio and heater control holes. I will move the fuel pump switch, kill switch, and start button over there.

View attachment 1714770309

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Click to expand...

Nice dash panel mock up , same situation like you on the accessory switches. Had a homemade radio delete panel, with switches installed. Decided to put a CD player back in, so needed a new switch location. Finally decided on gutting the ashtray, and mounting them so the switches are hidden. Started today, will post pictures soon.
 
I decided to attach the aluminum instrument insert to the factory plastic cluster housing with small bolts by using nutserts. If I need access to the gauges later on I won't have rivets to drill out or have to worry about stripped sheet metal screws. I also did a preliminary polish on that piece of aluminum.

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One problem I ran into was that I hadn't left enough plastic around the perimeter of the hole I'd gouged out of the plastic piece. The bottom 3 nutserts had plenty of meat to attach to. - But the top 3 had to be located too close to the overhang to get my nutsert tool into. Luckily I had 2 of the tools so I ground down the end of one so it would reach. It may not look like much but I took off about 5/8".

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I drilled the holes for my switches in the fill panel. I'll have to replace one wire that will be too short.

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I shouldn't have to gain access behind this fill panel after it's installed so I may end up using pop rivets. I've only got 4 more of the nutserts on hand. I'll drill out the 4 corners and see how sturdy it seems with clecos holding it in place. If it seems like enough I'll use the nutserts instead. - Otherwise - rivets.

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I layed a tarp down below. I don't want to have to dig all the shavings out of the carpet later.





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Abodybomber said:
Nice dash panel mock up , same situation like you on the accessory switches. Had a homemade radio delete panel, with switches installed. Decided to put a CD player back in, so needed a new switch location. Finally decided on gutting the ashtray, and mounting them so the switches are hidden. Started today, will post pictures soon.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many guys reading the talk of dash modifications are gritting their teeth. I cut out the ashtray on my '70 Roadrunner so I could install a Pioneer TP-800 under-dash stereo IN the dash. It looked good but I ruined the dash frame and plastic. My son's 70 Roadrunner has had it's ashtray modified to house the control screen for his fuel injection computer.

I had to search for a long time to replace the missing ashtray in the '67. - Like I said, I'm sure there are some guys cringing out there.
 
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1967 'cuda said:
I wonder how many guys reading the talk of dash modifications are gritting their teeth. I cut out the ashtray on my '70 Roadrunner so I could install a Pioneer TP-800 under-dash stereo IN the dash. It looked good but I ruined the dash frame and plastic. My son's 70 Roadrunner has had it's ashtray modified to house the control screen for his fuel injection computer.

I had to search for a long time to replace the missing ashtray in the '67. - Like I said, I'm sure there are some guys cringing out there.
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A viable question, never thought of it potentially becoming a problem.
 
I got into a discussion with SNKEBIT the other day. The subject was about the amount of hours (and cash) all of us guys put into our cars. We agreed that the number of hours we put into them shouldn't be calculated into the dollar amount. We figured that it's a hobby.

If the folks out on the golf course tracked the hours they spent with their hobby they'd be able to claim their clubs were worth a fortune. The women that crochet and knit would have every reason to believe the fruit of their work is worth a ton too.

We're not saying that there is no value in the work we do. We agreed that the real value is that we all strive to be craftsmen. - We take pride in pushing the limits of our own abilities. Even when things turn out poorly we've still gone down the same roads as each other and honed our skills. These are the things that you can't put a price on.

I feel sad when I hear someone gets in a financial bind and has to sell the car they've poured so many dreams, time, and money into. But the memories last. The stories we all share will only fade away when we're gone and the next generation creates their own.
 
Abodybomber said:
A viable question, never thought of it potentially becoming a problem.
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The die hard restorers in need of the parts we sometimes chop up are the guys that cringe the hardest. When it's all said and done I'd rather upset a few folks and have things the way I want than feel I can't express my own tastes.

The Duster was originally a B5 Blue 340 car. I'm sure there are some that think the car should have been restored instead of having been gutted as far as it has.
 
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famous bob said:
dadgum, I`ve already reworked my dash in the 68 fastback, `m not real happy w/the way it turned out. may have to take another look at it now, like yours better!
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Thanks famous bob. I always preferred the look of round gauges. I was probably influenced by the dashes in my '69 Superbee and '70 Roadrunner.

I've been trying to take the cheapest and easiest routes with these mods. By retaining as much of the cluster plastic as I could, it meant that all I had to fab was the flat section to nestle the gauges. The 160 mph speedometer wasn't doing me any good in my tool box. I had bought it for my fiberglass T over 35 years ago. The only real expenses were the new volt gauge and speedometer cable adapter.

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I still need to re-mount the tach and shift light.

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Looks pretty good! I might be going for aftermarket gauges in mine too. I think the factory speedo and tach in my dash are gonna be too spendy.:protest:
 
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