Anti Freeze turned brown.

[Ruger64]

When I bought my 71 Valiant slant 6. The car had sat for 15 years. So I know rust and stuff had probably settled into the engine,.
The radiator, heater core, water pump, all new hoses, thermostat. Everything has been replaced.
I put one of those little flush kit caps on the heater hose. And kept pumping water through with a garden hose, with the car running, until it ran clear. I put all new 50/50 anti freeze in it. The car doesn't get driven often. But I do use it once a week, for about 10 miles. It has been good for about a month. Yesterday I popped the rad cap off, to check the antifreeze, and it is brown again! ugh!! Like a brown water.
I was told not to use the chemical flush, that it may take debris loose and clog things. Any ideas? This is frustrating!

 

[memike]

I used it, and will again next spring, I would think it is taking it's time to clean as each day it heats up to temp it just removes more age from sitting.
Anti Freeze is a lubricant also and it will eventually be clean again one day as you flush it, it will take time to lossen everything up. Test for freeze point and run it or change it again. been there my self on my Ramcharger flushed when I put a used 318 in it and all was good , know it has a brown tint to it.

 

[Ruger64]

I used it, and will again next spring, I would think it is taking it's time to clean as each day it heats up to temp it just removes more age from sitting.
Anti Freeze is a lubricant also and it will eventually be clean again one day as you flush it, it will take time to lossen everything up. Test for freeze point and run it or change it again. been there my self on my Ramcharger flushed when I put a used 318 in it and all was good , know it has a brown tint to it.

Okay, so at least I am not the only one that has dealt with this.
My buddy said i may have a bad head gasket. He cannot even change his own brakes...:sad3:
I find that very hard to believe.
My oil is clean, and my anti freeze stays clean for a little while. Until I drive it about 7-8 times. Then its dirty again. I guess eventually it will clean up over time. I guess I am panicking for no reason...

 

[inkjunkie]

Seriously doubt you have a blown head gasket. It will more than likely take a lot more than a little bit of water form a garden hose to get rid of the rust. Should have kept the old stuff on it and flushed it with some chemicals before replacing everything. Someone on here was talking about using CLR as a flush, never tried it but it might work. What you might want to do is hunt down one of the filters that goes into the upper hose and flush it with an acid based cleaner. My Fairlane has one of those filters, will let you know what it is....Did not have to go look....Coolant Filter that goes into the upper hose. Motor in the Fairlane is very rusty so I put one of these in it as a band aid fix so I could drive it for a while.

 

[Charrlie_S]

First off, I wouldn't use 50/50. Definatley do not use Dexcool, extended life, or mixes with everything anti freeze. Remove the block drain plug on the passenger side of the engine, just to the rear of the oil pump area. Poke a screwdriver or something into the hole, to get the water flowing out. Flush the system with at least water to get the block somewhat clean.
What I do every fall, since My race car(s) get only plain water all race season, is with the thermostat out, I add 3 ozs of swimming poll (muriatic)acid mixed with about a pint of water to the cooling system (that is almost filled with plain water). Let that solution circulate for about 1/2 hour, and drain completely (radiator and block). Flush, flush, flush, with plain water. Then add full straingth "green" antifreeze.

 

[goldfish65]

Coincidentally this came up for me just the other day. I have been religious about changing the coolant in my Crown Vic every two years, but when I had a problem recently the coolant was very brown and I was worried. From what I understand this happens when engines get old if you don't flush them really well. It's just rust not a gasket problem.

 

[67Dart273]

First off, I wouldn't use 50/50..

I don't know why not, and the OP is in an area where he needs freeze protection.


If you are in a position to drain and store the car for at least a couple weeks, drain the entire coolant, and let it settle, then carefully transfer the "clean" upper liquid to a different container, and let what's left settle again, until you cannot gain

I have not priced them, the old diesel truck "luberfiner" cartridges used to be really cheap for their size, you might rig a McGuiver up to filter what's left.

I think this is one, 11 bucks

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51554.html

You could probably just plug the bottom and put a funnel in the top, then "rig" it above a bucket, and slowly poor through the top hole

I don't know the condition of your water "up there," but in some areas it is almost vital to use "store bought" purified water. When I was in the Navy, my 4 years in San Diego, smart people did NOT put tap water in their systems

 

[Charrlie_S]

I don't know why not, and the OP is in an area where he needs freeze protection.

Two reasons, one you are paying for 2 quarts of antifreeze, and two qts of water, not 4 qts of antifreeze. Second, if you want proper protection, you want 50/50 in the engine, and there is almost always some water left in the block, so you would have less then 50 % in the engine.

If you are in a position to drain and store the car for at least a couple weeks, drain the entire coolant, and let it settle, then carefully transfer the "clean" upper liquid to a different container, and let what's left settle again, until you cannot gain

I have not priced them, the old diesel truck "luberfiner" cartridges used to be really cheap for their size, you might rig a McGuiver up to filter what's left.

I think this is one, 11 bucks

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51554.html

You could probably just plug the bottom and put a funnel in the top, then "rig" it above a bucket, and slowly poor through the top hole

I don't know the condition of your water "up there," but in some areas it is almost vital to use "store bought" purified water. When I was in the Navy, my 4 years in San Diego, smart people did NOT put tap water in their systems

You are correct about the water quality. I recommend using water from one of those dispensing machines at the supermarket. Like 25 cents a gallon.

 

[67Dart273]

there is almost always some water left in the block,
.

I assumed he drained the block, the only right way to do that and know what your mix is, unless you use an accurate anti-freeze hydrometer, something that's nearly impossible to obtain nowadays

He most certainly needs to drain the block in this case especially, with rust contamination.

 

[OklaDuster]

From the schooling i have had for oilfield compressor, i was taught to use deionized water and watch the pH levels to keep the cooling system clean.

If you have access to deionized water it wont leave deposits in your radiator, from what i read it will actually pick up deposits. But if you don't have access i would use filtered water.

Coolant pH below 8.3 pH is not acceptable for use in engines due to its corrosive nature. The correct pH value should be maintained between 9.5 - 10.0 pH. Below 9.0 pH it is advisable to flush the cooling system and refill with a new coolant solution

This is what i am going to follow on my build. Just my 2cents:yawinkle:

 

[chryslerfat]

Green coolant should be changed every 2 years because it is sugar base and turns acidic after that time. That is why auto manufacturers have changed the coolant in the newer vehicles. As it turns acidic it gives the engine sensors incorrect readings as millivolts travel through it. Flush it and keep a 50/50 mix and change it every 2 years.

 

[Ruger64]

Seriously doubt you have a blown head gasket. It will more than likely take a lot more than a little bit of water form a garden hose to get rid of the rust. Should have kept the old stuff on it and flushed it with some chemicals before replacing everything. Someone on here was talking about using CLR as a flush, never tried it but it might work. What you might want to do is hunt down one of the filters that goes into the upper hose and flush it with an acid based cleaner. My Fairlane has one of those filters, will let you know what it is....Did not have to go look....Coolant Filter that goes into the upper hose. Motor in the Fairlane is very rusty so I put one of these in it as a band aid fix so I could drive it for a while.

I seen prestone makes a flush chemical. I don't know how good it is. I was also told it can make the crusty stuff move elsewhere and plug something up, like jackets? I dunno. I just bookmarked that filter. Thank you!!

First off, I wouldn't use 50/50. Definatley do not use Dexcool, extended life, or mixes with everything anti freeze. Remove the block drain plug on the passenger side of the engine, just to the rear of the oil pump area. Poke a screwdriver or something into the hole, to get the water flowing out. Flush the system with at least water to get the block somewhat clean.
What I do every fall, since My race car(s) get only plain water all race season, is with the thermostat out, I add 3 ozs of swimming poll (muriatic)acid mixed with about a pint of water to the cooling system (that is almost filled with plain water). Let that solution circulate for about 1/2 hour, and drain completely (radiator and block). Flush, flush, flush, with plain water. Then add full straingth "green" antifreeze.

I know where the oil pump is, I never noticed a drain plug on the block. I will take a look for it now. After 41 years, will it come out actually without anything breaking off? That sounds like a good plan, to get the block drained properly. I will remove the thermostat during all of this.

I don't know why not, and the OP is in an area where he needs freeze protection.

If you are in a position to drain and store the car for at least a couple weeks, drain the entire coolant, and let it settle, then carefully transfer the "clean" upper liquid to a different container, and let what's left settle again, until you cannot gain

I have not priced them, the old diesel truck "luberfiner" cartridges used to be really cheap for their size, you might rig a McGuiver up to filter what's left.

I think this is one, 11 bucks

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51554.html

You could probably just plug the bottom and put a funnel in the top, then "rig" it above a bucket, and slowly poor through the top hole

I don't know the condition of your water "up there," but in some areas it is almost vital to use "store bought" purified water. When I was in the Navy, my 4 years in San Diego, smart people did NOT put tap water in their systems

I have it in my garage. I can let it sit a few weeks if need be. I just want it to be right! It was clean for a little while. Then of course, got dirty again.

 

[chryslerfat]

I use a bottle of fast flush from Napa and run it up to temp so the t=stat opens then drive it a few blocks, shut it off and flush it with a t adaptor in the heater hose until it comes out clean then refill with water and repeat flush again if it is rusty brown. They usually come clean after 2 in a row and stay clean with a drain and fill every 2 years.

 

[jos51700]

It is rust buildup in the motor. Add a little detergent (Dawn) to the mix and go drive for a week. The pressure and antifoaming agents in the coolant keep it from sudsing.

Drain, rinse, repeat. Now, one thing you should look for...make sure that the coolant you're adding is not (at least for the time being) silicate-free.

What is silicate? Well, it's sand. Really fine sand. In the old days, silicates were used to "scrub" the system and remove water deposits, and rust. It's handy for doing that now, although it takes awhile. Coolant for aluminum engines (and I'll assume most modern coolants) typically does not have silicates, but I honestly have not checked lately (I run GO-5 in all my stuff).

You need something to break up the surface tension and scrub the crap out, and punching the block drains wouldn't hurt either. You're going to have to drive it, long term, to get it all cleaned out. Period.

 

[jos51700]

Proof in the puddin'

 

[daredevil]

I have never worried about such a thing. If the motor isnt overheating and the level isnt dropping whats the problem?Damn things 40 years old.Why waste good antifreeze?Its not like a new car with an aluminum block, radiator and pump housing. Heater cores are notorious for storing crud.I myself dont see the problem.

 

[yooper822]

If it was mine I'd pull the upper and lower hoses and thermostat housing and then garden hose flush the block. It's possible you have a crapload of sediment sitting in the bottom of the block and it didn't get pushed thru the system with the flush you did?

 

[Ruger64]

I use a bottle of fast flush from Napa and run it up to temp so the t=stat opens then drive it a few blocks, shut it off and flush it with a t adaptor in the heater hose until it comes out clean then refill with water and repeat flush again if it is rusty brown. They usually come clean after 2 in a row and stay clean with a drain and fill every 2 years.

I don't have a napa real close to me. I will see what advance has for a chemical additive for flushing. Should I let the engine cool down, when I put the hose on my t-adaptor?

It is rust buildup in the motor. Add a little detergent (Dawn) to the mix and go drive for a week. The pressure and antifoaming agents in the coolant keep it from sudsing.

Drain, rinse, repeat. Now, one thing you should look for...make sure that the coolant you're adding is not (at least for the time being) silicate-free.

What is silicate? Well, it's sand. Really fine sand. In the old days, silicates were used to "scrub" the system and remove water deposits, and rust. It's handy for doing that now, although it takes awhile. Coolant for aluminum engines (and I'll assume most modern coolants) typically does not have silicates, but I honestly have not checked lately (I run GO-5 in all my stuff).

You need something to break up the surface tension and scrub the crap out, and punching the block drains wouldn't hurt either. You're going to have to drive it, long term, to get it all cleaned out. Period.

Okay, funny you brought that up. I stole some dishwasher detergent from the kitchen. I had my t-stat out. And a few months ago. Added it, and let it run for about 30 minutes, then flushed with the t adapter. It came clean!
i probably should have left that detergent in longer than 30 minutes. I guess I got a little excited, and drained it out to quick.

I have never worried about such a thing. If the motor isnt overheating and the level isnt dropping whats the problem?Damn things 40 years old.Why waste good antifreeze?Its not like a new car with an aluminum block, radiator and pump housing. Heater cores are notorious for storing crud.I myself dont see the problem.

I called my buddy, and he said...
"Drive the damn thing and quit worrying, it's a tough engine"...LOL
It runs right at 180 degrees on the button. Thats the thermo I put in.

If it was mine I'd pull the upper and lower hoses and thermostat housing and then garden hose flush the block. It's possible you have a crapload of sediment sitting in the bottom of the block and it didn't get pushed thru the system with the flush you did?

Your right. I never knew I could drain the block. I will check for that plug tomorrow on the passenger side. I never knew it had one, and hopefully it comes out after being in there that long. I guess with the tstat out, the block will refill? I know with it in, I won't have any water in the block when it is running.

 

[yooper822]

The plug is just behind the oil filter. Most important is to get some water flowing with the hose first from the top then from the bottom. if there is anything is will usually flow right out. I usually drill a 1/8 hole in the thermostat flange to allow air to escape while filling the system. it has served me well over the years and doesn't seem to effect cooling at all.

 

[2 Darts]

You didn't say if you were using DexCool (orange stuff) or polyethylene glycol (green stuff) anti-freeze. DexCool turns brown rather easily. The green stuff can look like pond scum after a while.

You also didn't specifically say if you had changed out the freeze plugs. If they are getting a little weepy, now may be a good time to change them out. You'll need to drain the block. While the freeze plugs are out you will have access to the bottom of the cylinders where a lot of rust settles. You can either let it set a few days or use a hair dryer to get rid of the moisture. Once dry, rust clumps can be removed through the freeze plugs with a magnet-on-a-stick kind of thing. You'll be amazed.

Getting the big crud out will make it easier to get the little crud out. And getting the crud out is what flushing the block is about. Besides clogging up the radiator and heater, it can also compromise even heating/cooling of the block.

Unless I'm dealing with substantial amount of aluminum in the cooling system, I recommend a 50/50 mix of the green stuff. When I mix my own, I use distilled water in order to keep excess minerals, especially calcium, out of the cooling system. You can get distilled water at the grocery store. Because I'm old school, I also dump in a can of water pump lubricant when I change the coolant. Don't know if I need to do it, but I've never had a water pump failure.

 

[Ruger64]

The plug is just behind the oil filter.
Most important is to get some water flowing with the hose first from the top then from the bottom. if there is anything is will usually flow right out. I usually drill a 1/8 hole in the thermostat flange to allow air to escape while filling the system. it has served me well over the years and doesn't seem to effect cooling at all.

I will check behind the filter for the plug on the block.
When you say get some water flowing, "block plug out"? Do you mean put the garden hose in the top rad hose, and leave the block plug out, or the bottom rad hose off? I am sorry. Just getting confused.
Drill into the outer edge of the thermostat? Just making sure I get these things right before the weekend. Thanks for understanding.

You didn't say if you were using DexCool (orange stuff) or polyethylene glycol (green stuff) anti-freeze. DexCool turns brown rather easily. The green stuff can look like pond scum after a while.

You also didn't specifically say if you had changed out the freeze plugs. If they are getting a little weepy, now may be a good time to change them out. You'll need to drain the block. While the freeze plugs are out you will have access to the bottom of the cylinders where a lot of rust settles. You can either let it set a few days or use a hair dryer to get rid of the moisture. Once dry, rust clumps can be removed through the freeze plugs with a magnet-on-a-stick kind of thing. You'll be amazed.

Getting the big crud out will make it easier to get the little crud out. And getting the crud out is what flushing the block is about. Besides clogging up the radiator and heater, it can also compromise even heating/cooling of the block.

Unless I'm dealing with substantial amount of aluminum in the cooling system, I recommend a 50/50 mix of the green stuff. When I mix my own, I use distilled water in order to keep excess minerals, especially calcium, out of the cooling system. You can get distilled water at the grocery store. Because I'm old school, I also dump in a can of water pump lubricant when I change the coolant. Don't know if I need to do it, but I've never had a water pump failure.

I just use the regular green anti freeze.
I never removed freeze plugs. Do I have to remove a lot of stuff to get to them?
Hope the old things aren't horrifying to remove. They seem fine, no leaks.
If memory serves me right, they are in a easy location on the slant. Thats probably a really good idea. It would definitely allow me access to the crud inside. I really don't want my new rad, and heater core plugged up.
I use distilled water from wal mart. Seems cheap, and I usually keep some on hand. I am slowly getting this old rides little quirks out of the way. She just sat for a long time. I will say, I am amazed at how well these old slants run. I have never owned one.

 

[RedFish]

I bought my 67 from the original owner. he knew he had 2 very small leaks in the radiator and a leaking freeze plug. He had added a bottle of barsleak about annually and a weak system cap ( 7 lbs ).
When I removed the rearmost freeze plugs from both sides I found nearly fist sized chunks of material . I had to break them up to get them out the freeze plug hole.
Good garden hose flush through those freeze plug holes and a new radiator, proper cap, all good. 6 years now and the water stays green.
I'm sure a lifetime of conventional flushing wouldn't have cured the discolored water issue.
You should also know that if you drape the heater hoses over the fender and hose flush the heater core in one direction until it runs clear, change the direction of the flow and it will be brown again. To change flow direction several times will get it all clear.

 

[Ruger64]

I bought my 67 from the original owner. he knew he had 2 very small leaks in the radiator and a leaking freeze plug. He had added a bottle of barsleak about annually and a weak system cap ( 7 lbs ).
When I removed the rearmost freeze plugs from both sides I found nearly fist sized chunks of material . I had to break them up to get them out the freeze plug hole.
Good garden hose flush through those freeze plug holes and a new radiator, proper cap, all good. 6 years now and the water stays green.
I'm sure a lifetime of conventional flushing wouldn't have cured the discolored water issue.
You should also know that if you drape the heater hoses over the fender and hose flush the heater core in one direction until it runs clear, change the direction of the flow and it will be brown again. To change flow direction several times will get it all clear.

Yeah, my heater core is new, I want to make sure I reclean it. i was trying to see photos of the freeze plugs, to see how much I need to remove to get to them. i am running a 16lb cap right now.

 

[chryslerfat]

I do that with all heater cores when flushing REDFISH and that is great advise.

 

[chryslerfat]

Advance will have the flush you need as you have asked. You should not have to let it cool to flush an engine that old. At work what I do is cut a heater hose in 1/2 and flush one direction then flush the other direction along with the drain open. You would be shocked just switching the direction will get dirty again.