Any Saginaw Power Steering Pump Experts?

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Nash Stanton

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Hi everyone,

I don't have an A-body, but I do have an e-body that uses the same power steering pump. My pump has developed a knock for the first 10-15 minutes of running. Almost sounds like a lifter tap, but it's not consistent. I took it all apart, blasted it, rebuilt it using the basic kit (seals and shaft bushing).

I didn't find anything wrong internally, or at least what I "think" could be the culprit. I took some measurements with my dial indicator, and I'm trying to verify what is "in spec", and what is "not in spec" and I'm having a hell of a time trying to find people with the background of these that know for sure.

Maybe there's an old school mechanic around here that can shed some light so I can make a decision about what to do next...been in limbo.

Shaft thrust play: .020"
Pulley "wobble": -.010" to + .020", giving .030" total variation.
Pulley offset from crank pulley: .070"

I'd love to make sure I fixed the problem, but I don't want to just start replacing everything "just because".

Thanks for any help you guys!
 
Not costing any money, I would take the belt off and give it a look see, maybe a section of the belt lost its covering maybe something hung up on the pulley grooves...Mark the belt before you take it off, flip it and give a good tight adjustment. Sometimes the pump vanes can stick in the rotors and give a clicking noise also, but most of the time something is just plain wore out......
 
Thanks! What do you think about my thrust play? I have some saying .020" is too much, and I have some saying that it's fine and allows room for expansion. When I did a rebuild, there didn't appear any areas in which play could actually grow...play seems to be "fixed" with these Saginaw pumps...

If it's too much, then I simply need a new pump. I did check the belt..no cracks or anything. I didn't flip it back over or adjust the tension though. I just removed the belt and the "knocking" noise went away. Here's a video of the knocking noise...you can hear it when I move my camera over to the PS side:

https://forum.e-bodies.org/gallerypics/videos/2011_02_02_19_12_12_37.mov

Pump is already rebuilt (new bushing and seals) and assembled. I didn't find any smoking guns. I'm just trying to make sure I've eliminated all possibility of what could be causing the knock sound. The knock sound I would guess is coming from A) shaft play being too big, or b) shaft play bottoming out due to the poor .070" offset of the crank and power steering pulley. It could be c) sticking vanes, but I doubt it because I'd expect more of a "click" sound, not a knock sound.
 
Video did not play for me, sometimes they may have to upload to youtube and then download a link to this site.....for viewing. You must have some endplay for the rotor and end plates for lube. If you can you just physically move the pulley back and fro its too much, replacing the bushing may not work all the time as well if the pump shaft is worn.....
 
Thank you for helping me, it sounds like you know your stuff!

Posted on Youtube. Check it out:


Yes, I can physically pull up and down on the shaft (or pulley) and get .020" of play. I also attached a couple pictures, one of a drawing of all the measurements I took with the dial indicator.

Just need a solid plan of attack to tackle that noise!

thrust.JPG


55901850_10156279445139021_2084779058213683200_n.jpg
 
Pressure behind the rotor will walk the rotor and shaft back and fro, pretty sure you found your problem.....
 
So you're thinking the thrust play, nor the slight "wobble" of the pulley are not really the concerns, but just simple alignment?

If so:

1) Shim the brackets
-or-
2) Stick a 1mm'ish washer behind the pulley and shim it that way.

Here's the offset visually.

setback.JPG
 
None of the above, if you can take your hands physically move the pump pulley that pretty much tells me it loose, hence noise......
Dicer said:
Pressure behind the rotor will walk the rotor and shaft back and fro, pretty sure you found your problem.....
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the information. That was one thing I didn't do in the rebuild, and I bet that's exactly where I'm going to find the only sign of wear: I didn't remove the c-clip and the rotor from the shaft. I'm guessing there is going to be where I'll find the smoking gun. I had a hunch it was a little "sloopy" while I was holding onto it in my hand, but didn't know enough if that's normal or not. Now I know, that c-clip should but itself against the rotor at all times and should be firm against the shaft.

For now, it's time to order a re-man pump. I'll remove the pump from whatever canister it comes with and use my own canister since it's been two-part painted. At that point, I'll tear my old one down again and follow up, in case you're interested....I know I am.

Too bad you can't buy a new Saginaw shaft anymore.

Sound like the slight pulley wobble and the .070" offset are nothing to be concerned about. It may have "created" this issue, but over the course of 49 years, I'd say it's nothing that needs "fixing".

Really wanted to thank you for helping out a follow Mopar guy!
 
Funny thing enough Dicer, I noticed slop in this part. Even took a video of it and shared it with people. No one had anything to say about it. The play is coming solely from this. I even spent 5 minutes trying to get that damn clip off, and then just ultimately decided to run with it.

Sounds like they are not suppose to do this!

Assuming if I took this apart, I would see the wear I'm looking for. Ordering a new pump now!

 
I often wonder where companies like Cardone get new replacement hard parts for their reman's. I have to wonder if belt misalignment wasn't the root cause too. The belt would need to be tight, maybe tighter than would be if properly aligned?
I've never found that excessive wear in the few I have seal kitted. Never heard a knock from any p/s pump before. Good luck with it.
 
Me too. I pick up my reman today at NAPA. $50, including core. It's 50% of the cost of buying the whole assembly, so I'm good with that price.

If belt misalignment was the cause, then it sure took 49 years in order for it to get there, so it's hard to say that that really is a problem. .07" may be within "allowable" variance for the distance, but I'm not an expert on belts at all. I'll work on alignment when I go hook it back up and look at some options to get it a little closer.

The slight wobble of the pulley I am least concerned with, but if you guys want to see it:


The problem is that these pulleys are not available anymore. The only Saginaw pulleys that are available now are for the 383/440/Hemis. You can use them for the small block, but you have to buy a $20 spacer kit. Getting sort of non-original at that point.

They are supposedly easy to bend, but I'm afraid I'd make it worse. I called a machine shop and they didn't sound excited at all, and said that ".030 is about the best we're going to do."
 
Nash Stanton said:
Me too. I pick up my reman today at NAPA. $50, including core. It's 50% of the cost of buying the whole assembly, so I'm good with that price.

If belt misalignment was the cause, then it sure took 49 years in order for it to get there, so it's hard to say that that really is a problem. .07" may be within "allowable" variance for the distance, but I'm not an expert on belts at all. I'll work on alignment when I go hook it back up and look at some options to get it a little closer.

The slight wobble of the pulley I am least concerned with, but if you guys want to see it:


The problem is that these pulleys are not available anymore. The only Saginaw pulleys that are available now are for the 383/440/Hemis. You can use them for the small block, but you have to buy a $20 spacer kit. Getting sort of non-original at that point.

They are supposedly easy to bend, but I'm afraid I'd make it worse. I called a machine shop and they didn't sound excited at all, and said that ".030 is about the best we're going to do."
Click to expand...


I just read your posts and not just throwing an opinion in with no background on the subject.
I read where you took the belt off and the noise went away, BUT,,,
THE very first thing I do when I have a noise like that on something belt driven is while the engine is running touch a bar of soap on both sides of the belt and see if the noise changes or goes away.
Of course some caution is in order here.:D
(knocking type sound are usually the belt popping in the pulley groove in my experience)

That belt misalignment should be solved as well, but the soap on the belt will positively eliminate the belt being the problem in only a few seconds.
 
Good advice, thanks. I still needed to pull and replace it, but that's good to know for future reference. I'm picking up new belts today as well.
 
I just picked up a reman pump from NAPA.

It has thrust play, but it "feels" like it has about half the play. I'll stick a dial indicator on it tonight.

If this one is an example of "correct" then there should be SOME expected play....maybe 0-.010" is acceptable..

If NONE is acceptable then I should return it...
 
Alright. I remeasured my pump's play and got .018. I said .020 before. So pretty close.

This reman pump from NAPA I measure .012.

There is another part store that has one in stock. What should I do?
 
Alright guys!

I went to yet another part store to look at a reman pump. That had easily over .020 without a doubt...it felt more than mine.

So all pumps I am finding play. I transferred the guts of the NAPA pump into my stock pump and assembled it. Interestingly, the NAPA pump had the cam lightly honed, so it looked nice and machined. I used that cam over mine. I get .012-.014 thrust play after all said and done, and I'm starting to believe that is normal. For now, I am done with the power steering pump.

I'm having a hell of a time trying to find someone who can reduce the runout on my pulley. Most machine shops are saying "thanks but no thanks".

IMG_2140.jpeg

IMG_2141.jpeg
 
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