Anyone heard from @Wyrmrider lately?
- Thread starter mgoblue9798
- Start date
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lol
It is all Situational. When you want an easy cruiser that idles like it’s not even running, you don’t suggest a .904 only ramp rate solid lifter cam with .580 lift on a 106 with inverse ramps.
Ed “Isky” has a great write up on it.
Harvey Crane has great write ups.
Is there a time and place for a Lightning quick rising ramp rate? SURE!
Does it belong in most peoples regular or hot rod rides?
F-NO!
Also! Build dependent as most things, but there is a point where you can lift the valve up so fast that there is no more benefit. So why bother?
Using a cam half this aggressive will haul the mail and do it awesomely. Heck! I’ll name a name! Comp Cams, Magnum Cams or there XE line. (Much nicer though) Many write right here how they love’em! They gloat how awesome there cam is producing power and how bad *** it is. For them it’s fine but SOME people want to hit the wall on aggressive lobe design when something that’s half the animal will totally kick *** in the street or track.
Don’t get me wrong. There are guys running 10’s, 9’s even possibly 8’s with a Comp cam. But it ain’t there run of the mill off the shelf cam when you get going fast!
While you may find power with a more aggressive ramp, you will only end up changing out valve springs way long before and many times vs an average or even slightly more aggressive cam lobe. How often do you want to change your valve springs out on your mile 400hp - 360?
You want an education? Take some time out with the Automotive Math Handbook and take a class from David Vizard on cams. You’ll **** your draws!
Take a good look at the master lobe spec sheets and really REALLY pay attention. Howard’s was posted up here not all that long ago.
Most builds will eeeeeek out a 1.2 average of torque but a really good cam selection will up that anti quite well!
mgoblue9798
Well-Known Member
Agreed there is a time and place for everything. Older cam grinds are not necessarily bad. Purpleshafts are a decent compromise between lift and ramp speed.
Sometimes people get caught up in what is the "best" choice to get the extra 10hp rather than using what they have on hand or can find.
That said, I will be using the Jones flat tappet he designed for the 440 truck motors in my RV build.
Those MP single pattern cams hold up really well against the competition.
I had a '509 in my 440/493. It idled rough but ran strong. I had the car at a shop once since I couldn't tune out the detonation. The shop guy told me that I should consider a newer cam with a more modern design. I swapped in a Comp XE285HL....and wiped two of them in a row! The '509 was still good so I put it back in and ran it.
I would add that just because you have a .904” lifter doesn’t always mean you need to take advantage of it. All I’ve ever read (from more than just wyrmrider) was about how much you are giving up, or you’re giving up the Chrysler advantage, running slow, lazy, Chevy lobes, old technology etc ad nauseam
Plenty of comparisons on the dyno from articles but can’t say I’ve seen anything regarding comparisons at the track. Nor has anyone ever shown how big a fender, door, car lengths difference there would be either on the street from any various launch, rolling speeds/rpm gear drops etc Nor times at the track difference. All theory/speculation or calculations. Not actual.
Not questioning that there is an advantage, just mostly the assertion of “giving up too much” that has been and is still bandied about. Average street or street/strip setup I’d say there are other ways to likely make up any difference, and not have to deal with all that comes with fast rate .904” lifter profiles. Just my take
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That's one of my biggest pet peeves with those types. There's just no need to maximize everything. Fastest rates of lift, all that stuff. People do it and then you see a thread pop up.... "Why is my valve train so noisy?" Happens a lot.
Exactly
Slantsix64
Well-Known Member
He lives down the street from me, i can call him tomo.
Slantsix64
Well-Known Member
last time i talked to Jim was about 5 months ago, he was on vacation we were suppose to burn some rubber in my barracuda when he got back. A lot of people bump heads with him on the form, kind of turned me off to see that but oh well i dont think he really cares its just the internet. but he is an out standing individual, the guy grew up around famous hot rodders like Ed Iskenderian. A lot of Knowledge thats for sure.
mgoblue9798
Well-Known Member
Wyrmrider does have a point in this sense though. The .904 lifter can handle a faster profile ramp. A chevy .875 grind may be on the ragged edge of what it can handle with that lifter but be somewhat tamed down with the bigger tappet. It depends on what someone is looking for. If you don't mind the valve train noise you can get more lift and area under the curve with less duration with the bigger profile. Just like everything else with engine building it is all a trade off.
Absolutely. And I hope I’m not coming across as critical of guys of his caliber, in no way am I questioning his knowledge or experience. I think it’s safe to say that he is a part of the “one track mind“ fast rate cam lobe brigade that always got injected into every cam discussion, not so much lately though. But like you said, “Trade-offs” and like I initially said “I would add that just because you have a .904” lifter doesn’t always mean you need to take advantage of it”.
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Here the thing, it doesn’t need to be involved in every cam discussion or in every vehicle.
Please do. Let him know we all miss him and love him and he's part of the family. Keep us posted.
Well.....in his defense, you can argue the fast rate of lift stuff will make more power every time in comparison. So he is actually trying to help in that regard.
Now whether every single build needs to be maximized is another opinion altogether. Plenty of builds runnin around out there with Chevy lobes that are fast and their owners are happy. That's what it's all about.
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Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Slantsix64
Well-Known Member
Talked to him on the phone, he’s doing well, he’s just taking care of his mother currently so he hasn’t had any time to get behind his computer. Probably going to see him next week so he can check out my car.
So good to hear. Let him know we are thinking about him. Nice guy!
Good. Tell him I said Jones Cams suck. LMAO Seriously, tell him I said Merry Christmas.
Slantsix64
Well-Known Member
Ahaha will do
Excellent! Tell’em RF sends him his best for him and his family.
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