nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
So the Holley Projection 4DI system I have sitting in my garage is pretty much worthless???
Anyone know Holley Commander 950's? programming?
- Thread starter 67Dart273
- Start date
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I'm not very familiar with them. The problem with the Projection 2D is that it has no engine load sensing, IE no knock sensor, or MAF or MAP sensor. All it really operates from is engine temp and throttle position. You can get an optional O2 sensor cable, but it does not come with one
I believe the 4di is quite a bit better. It DOES have idle air control for better idle control, as well as o2, MAP, coolant and air charge temp sensors
I believe the 4di is quite a bit better. It DOES have idle air control for better idle control, as well as o2, MAP, coolant and air charge temp sensors
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Just received the Innovate O2 wideband kit via priority mail a few moments ago, and yesterday I received Tom Zalenski's "Autotune" program via email.
Turns out the Innovate software is pretty bloated, and didn't like W98, so I spent the night installing W2K on the partition I'd had 98 on. After getting everything installed, I only have 90MB of hard drive left!!
Turns out the Innovate software is pretty bloated, and didn't like W98, so I spent the night installing W2K on the partition I'd had 98 on. After getting everything installed, I only have 90MB of hard drive left!!
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Certainly not worthless. They still command >$400 on ebay. As 273 says, the last 4Di system added sensors for Pman and IAT, so should work much better on a daily driver. Indeed, I suspect that the last Pro-jection 4Di is essentially the same as the current Avenger, and the later just added a small user-interface box so you don't need a laptop to tune it.
I expect it would work fine as long as not over-sized for your engine. Of course, you can put in smaller injectors to match your engine, though those injectors cost more than MPI injectors and are a bit confusing (color codes). Best if you have the later Delphi injectors, which are "flat-top" with side connectors rather than the older injectors with round-top connectors.
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
I worry about the calibration of the wideband O2 sensors, especially the 2 cheap setups I got. I welded in two O2 bungs in my Dart so I can also use a simple narrow-band sensor with lean/rich indicator. I will use that to verify/adjust the calibration of the wideband signal. A narrow-band sensor acts as a simple digital switch, so should be very accurate where it switches. I also got a cheap A/D box so I can log both on my laptop as I drive to analyze later. All my effort would be a waste if I crash from looking at gages when I should be watching the road. All just dreaming for now. I need to finish painting and re-install my interior first.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Bill I have not read all the tons of material (145 pages) in the Innovate manual, but there's a procedure for calibration, and in free air, as well as adjusting the output range to whatever you are interfacing it to.
The Innovate stuff also seems to have a data logger. I have not got into it all yet.
Just came up from the basement. This morning I took the newly installed W2K, out to the Dart, and made sure the Holley software and the "Autotune" sofware both connected and appeard to work. so good.
Then I jigged up the LC-1, the meter, and O2 on the bench, carefully following the book. But the calibration software for the LC-1/ LM-1 displays "not a valid Win32 application." So now I have to figure THAT out. Why can't this shi# just WORK??
(If I was smart enough to make it work in Linux, I WOULD!!!)
Well it's 11PM and I JUST finished arguing with this laptop. I forgot how much "fun" it is to argue with Winhosed. There are several softwares, the Holley Commander stuff, the Autune stuff, the Innovate setup, and my Ferd Ranger shop manual
Some of this stuff does not like Winhoard7, and I have nothing that new with a serial (DB9) port. But what ticks me off is these people indicated this stuff would work on W98. So that's what I started with NOPE!!. Up to W2000 pro. Everything worked except the wideband setup program.
So I FINALLY wiped the HD and installed Xtra Putrid Pro, and STILL got an error from the wideband setup program, until I finally added SP3. FINALLY everything works.
Then just now finished 'er off by installing Linux on the rest of the HD. This will allow me to get on the www, download files, "in safety" without worrying about Xtra Putrid, which will NEVER get anywhere near the www.
AND..............put the final touch after making sure all the sofware worked, and put Linux Mint on the REST of the hard drive!!! This will allow the thing to SAFELY get on the www if I need to, to download something, and can transfer directly to the Whamhoed partition.
What's that, you say? I didn't activate Xtra Putrid? That's because I have a rare "Volume License" aka "Corporate" version, and is ALSO why it won't ever be seen on the www.
The Innovate stuff also seems to have a data logger. I have not got into it all yet.
Just came up from the basement. This morning I took the newly installed W2K, out to the Dart, and made sure the Holley software and the "Autotune" sofware both connected and appeard to work. so good.
Then I jigged up the LC-1, the meter, and O2 on the bench, carefully following the book. But the calibration software for the LC-1/ LM-1 displays "not a valid Win32 application." So now I have to figure THAT out. Why can't this shi# just WORK??
(If I was smart enough to make it work in Linux, I WOULD!!!)
Well it's 11PM and I JUST finished arguing with this laptop. I forgot how much "fun" it is to argue with Winhosed. There are several softwares, the Holley Commander stuff, the Autune stuff, the Innovate setup, and my Ferd Ranger shop manual
Some of this stuff does not like Winhoard7, and I have nothing that new with a serial (DB9) port. But what ticks me off is these people indicated this stuff would work on W98. So that's what I started with NOPE!!. Up to W2000 pro. Everything worked except the wideband setup program.
So I FINALLY wiped the HD and installed Xtra Putrid Pro, and STILL got an error from the wideband setup program, until I finally added SP3. FINALLY everything works.
Then just now finished 'er off by installing Linux on the rest of the HD. This will allow me to get on the www, download files, "in safety" without worrying about Xtra Putrid, which will NEVER get anywhere near the www.
AND..............put the final touch after making sure all the sofware worked, and put Linux Mint on the REST of the hard drive!!! This will allow the thing to SAFELY get on the www if I need to, to download something, and can transfer directly to the Whamhoed partition.
What's that, you say? I didn't activate Xtra Putrid? That's because I have a rare "Volume License" aka "Corporate" version, and is ALSO why it won't ever be seen on the www.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
.......................AAAANNNNNDDDD..................Sunday night. REALLY made some progress between Fri. and today. Got the Innovate wideband stuff, installed, and got a fuel map that runs pretty decent.
Cold start is still an issue, but not much of one.
Got the WOT "back" this little 318 "really hauls."
Out of the hole needs a little work, but this thing is struggling with a 318 against a ?? TQ out of the 3/4T van that the 360 came out of, so LOW stall. Yep. I DID knock the 360 weights off the TQ
One big glitch I have not figured out is that about 1/3 the time if you shut it down, IE fill with gas, go to store, then restart, the damn thing wants to idle REAL fast. I have not been able to pin down WHY. Might be a sticky IAC??
If you shut it down and restart, it settles right down.
I think I need smaller injectors. The PW never gets very much above the very bottom end. I don't know what's in there, but this IS a 900 CFM TB!!
Overall, driveability is fairly good, considering I only have a little time with the software, and have not changed very much from the "base" map.
Cold start is still an issue, but not much of one.
Got the WOT "back" this little 318 "really hauls."
Out of the hole needs a little work, but this thing is struggling with a 318 against a ?? TQ out of the 3/4T van that the 360 came out of, so LOW stall. Yep. I DID knock the 360 weights off the TQ
One big glitch I have not figured out is that about 1/3 the time if you shut it down, IE fill with gas, go to store, then restart, the damn thing wants to idle REAL fast. I have not been able to pin down WHY. Might be a sticky IAC??
If you shut it down and restart, it settles right down.
I think I need smaller injectors. The PW never gets very much above the very bottom end. I don't know what's in there, but this IS a 900 CFM TB!!
Overall, driveability is fairly good, considering I only have a little time with the software, and have not changed very much from the "base" map.
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Fab your own Serial Cable:
Pulling up this old thread, since still the main discussion of Holley Commander 950. From other threads, looks like OP 67Dart273 upgraded to the later Holley HP ECU. Finally have time to fool with my Commander 950 stuff. One came w/o the serial cable, now "not avail" on Holley's site, so I had to make my own. I pinned out the Holley cable I have. The mating round plastic 4-pin connector is AMP PN 206060-1 (CPC Series 1, Size 11). Insure you also buy female pins and the cable clamp. If procuring both sides, you could use any convenient 3 or 4-pin connector (even USB). Use a DB9 female molded cable long enough to reach your PC and cut the other end off to install the AMP connector above. Below is the pinout to make your own cable (use commas to align columns):
ECU pin, Function, Round_male, Round_female, DB9 (PC end), PC function
A12, Serial Gnd, 1, 1, 5, GND
A9, TxD, 2, 2, 2, Rx_Out
A8, RxD, 3, 3, 3, Tx_In
A2, ModA, 4, none,,
A3, ModB, 4, none,,
A2 & A3 must be connected together, even though they don't continue on the serial cable. You can do that anywhere. Holley simply used pin 4 as a manufacturing convenience.
You need to plug into an RS-232 serial port on an old PC, or use a USB-serial adapter (DB9 connector). You must assign your PC's serial port to the same com# which the Holley ECU is using. When you can communicate, you will see a version# for the ECU in the About box of the Holley PC program. You won't know which com# the ECU was left in, so might need to try com1 thru com4. Change on the PC side in Device Manager. Right-click adapter (under ports) - Properties - Advanced and should get a box to set com#. Varies with adapters and your Windows version. I used a Win Vista laptop. I'll later try on a Win10 PC.
Pulling up this old thread, since still the main discussion of Holley Commander 950. From other threads, looks like OP 67Dart273 upgraded to the later Holley HP ECU. Finally have time to fool with my Commander 950 stuff. One came w/o the serial cable, now "not avail" on Holley's site, so I had to make my own. I pinned out the Holley cable I have. The mating round plastic 4-pin connector is AMP PN 206060-1 (CPC Series 1, Size 11). Insure you also buy female pins and the cable clamp. If procuring both sides, you could use any convenient 3 or 4-pin connector (even USB). Use a DB9 female molded cable long enough to reach your PC and cut the other end off to install the AMP connector above. Below is the pinout to make your own cable (use commas to align columns):
ECU pin, Function, Round_male, Round_female, DB9 (PC end), PC function
A12, Serial Gnd, 1, 1, 5, GND
A9, TxD, 2, 2, 2, Rx_Out
A8, RxD, 3, 3, 3, Tx_In
A2, ModA, 4, none,,
A3, ModB, 4, none,,
A2 & A3 must be connected together, even though they don't continue on the serial cable. You can do that anywhere. Holley simply used pin 4 as a manufacturing convenience.
You need to plug into an RS-232 serial port on an old PC, or use a USB-serial adapter (DB9 connector). You must assign your PC's serial port to the same com# which the Holley ECU is using. When you can communicate, you will see a version# for the ECU in the About box of the Holley PC program. You won't know which com# the ECU was left in, so might need to try com1 thru com4. Change on the PC side in Device Manager. Right-click adapter (under ports) - Properties - Advanced and should get a box to set com#. Varies with adapters and your Windows version. I used a Win Vista laptop. I'll later try on a Win10 PC.
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
WOW!!! That was a couple years back!!! I don't even remember what I did for a cable, Bill may have made one. "No big deal." Back in the 90's I had to screw with a fair amount of serial stuff. Programming radios, paging encoders, telco devices, there was always something. "Procomm" is one program I remember, both MS-DOS and Whinehozed. I still have some old laptops, not fired up for years. MSDOS, W3X and W98, with various radio programming. Old GE MLS, some Motorola, Kenwood, and Icom. I used to have a small ham "remote base" on UHF crossed to 2M and HF. HF was a freq agile Icom IC-735 It all was a PITA. I don't even recall what the interface box was called.
Fast01
Well-Known Member
I PM'd you in regards to this. I need to build a cable for an old Commander 950 and need some clarification. Thanks!
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Fast have you got the Holley downloads/ manuals?
Here and down towards the bottom of course
Tech Resources
I would download and save everything you can find, there
In here
https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_r10149-7.pdf
page 110
This is "what I hope" your computer serial port pinout
What the bug here is that sometimes people don't specify which end is which. For example if you are trying to hook two computer serial ports together, you need a "null" or "null modem" cable. What this means is the TX (TD) on one end must hook to the RX on the OTHER end, and vice versa. That is, the computer port end TX is sending OUT data. If the Holley is properly specified, it's pinout that would hook to that mating TX would be specified RX.
Example, Bill said:
ECU pin, Function, Round_male, Round_female, DB9 (PC end), PC function
A12, Serial Gnd, 1, 1, 5, GND
A9, TxD, 2, 2, 2, Rx_Out
A8, RxD, 3, 3, 3, Tx_In
A2, ModA, 4, none,,
A3, ModB, 4, none,,
So example, look at A9 and look on the big Holley diagram I posted. It is marked "TXD" (transmit data) and it goes to pin 2 on the DB9 connector which is RXD
Here and down towards the bottom of course
Tech Resources
I would download and save everything you can find, there
In here
https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_r10149-7.pdf
page 110
This is "what I hope" your computer serial port pinout
What the bug here is that sometimes people don't specify which end is which. For example if you are trying to hook two computer serial ports together, you need a "null" or "null modem" cable. What this means is the TX (TD) on one end must hook to the RX on the OTHER end, and vice versa. That is, the computer port end TX is sending OUT data. If the Holley is properly specified, it's pinout that would hook to that mating TX would be specified RX.
Example, Bill said:
ECU pin, Function, Round_male, Round_female, DB9 (PC end), PC function
A12, Serial Gnd, 1, 1, 5, GND
A9, TxD, 2, 2, 2, Rx_Out
A8, RxD, 3, 3, 3, Tx_In
A2, ModA, 4, none,,
A3, ModB, 4, none,,
So example, look at A9 and look on the big Holley diagram I posted. It is marked "TXD" (transmit data) and it goes to pin 2 on the DB9 connector which is RXD
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