There is alot of lead here in this location where the rocker connects to the outside fender and door frame structure. When putting their cars back together, are body guys using lead or all bondo? Or maybe there's a more structural version of Bondo out there that people are using?
Are body guys still using lead?
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matthon
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I removed the lead and welded in metal.
No cracks and nothing to fill.
No cracks and nothing to fill.
The short answer is yes.
jos51700
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I've considered this for my roof-quarter seam, and the body guys here warned me not to. It's been long enough that I don't recall the reasoning.
matthon
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My guess is the body twists under hard acceleration.
I had a Trans Am that cracked, but the seam had the factory filler, so yeah, it was flexible until it wasn't.
On a Mopar with a full long a$$ seam between the roof and quarter, maybe don't weld it in case you have to replace one or the other in the future.
Just spitballing here.
I had a Trans Am that cracked, but the seam had the factory filler, so yeah, it was flexible until it wasn't.
On a Mopar with a full long a$$ seam between the roof and quarter, maybe don't weld it in case you have to replace one or the other in the future.
Just spitballing here.
I think most body shops use bondo after replacing the metal . The main thing is to treat it from the inside, find the source and seal to keep it from happening again. ( That probably doesn't get done as often as it should )
matthon
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Get the lead out!
I use all-metal and lead. Well technically I guess the "lead" isn't that anymore, it's a lead free solder. But it applies in the same manner as the old lead did, you tin the area to receive the solder with flux and then paddle the solder into the seam. Then you use a body file to shape it to the body, and a skim coat of filler over the top so you're not sanding the solder.
The all-metal isn't quite as easy to work as bondo. It doesn't change color like Bondo does when you add hardener, so you have to be careful to mix it throughly otherwise you end up with soft spots. It's harder than bondo once it dries so sanding it down takes more effort, you can't knock it down with a rasp. But, nothing in all-metal can absorb water, unlike the cheap bondo's which are talc based and will absorb moisture. So in theory it should last forever. I use it as my skim coat, no bondo for me.
The factory used lead in the seam at the A-pillar, C-pillar (roof to quarter), tail panel to quarter and rockers to quarters. Vinyl top cars, and some of the later non-vinyl top cars, got a plastic filler at the roof seam. But even on my '74 Duster the tail panel to quarter seam was leaded. And that's what I did when I replaced the tail panel as part of my Demon clone, lead free solder at the seam. When I do the rest of the paint it'll get "lead" at the roof and quarter seams as well.
The all-metal isn't quite as easy to work as bondo. It doesn't change color like Bondo does when you add hardener, so you have to be careful to mix it throughly otherwise you end up with soft spots. It's harder than bondo once it dries so sanding it down takes more effort, you can't knock it down with a rasp. But, nothing in all-metal can absorb water, unlike the cheap bondo's which are talc based and will absorb moisture. So in theory it should last forever. I use it as my skim coat, no bondo for me.
The factory used lead in the seam at the A-pillar, C-pillar (roof to quarter), tail panel to quarter and rockers to quarters. Vinyl top cars, and some of the later non-vinyl top cars, got a plastic filler at the roof seam. But even on my '74 Duster the tail panel to quarter seam was leaded. And that's what I did when I replaced the tail panel as part of my Demon clone, lead free solder at the seam. When I do the rest of the paint it'll get "lead" at the roof and quarter seams as well.
harrisonm
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I use the All Metal where there was lead also. I have a friend who did body and paint professionally for 40 years, and he swears by Duraglas. It is a short strand fiberglass reinforced filler. It is waterproof and it is very strong. I have used it before in fiberglass repairs, and I do like it. I have just never used it to replace lead. my friend says he has been using to replace lead for many years with no problem.
Princess Valiant
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I had bought a lead kit from Eastwood but I have not used it yet, i was kinda nervous to try it because I am not familiar with working with lead.
I bought it because I changed a tailpanel on a 71 duster and it cracked on the seams where I used plastic because at the time I changed the panel all I had was the plastic filler.
Lasted about a month and half and cracked through the new paint.
So I was going to try the lead on my next Thanksgiving vacation project, I have a top to replace on a 70 duster but now that I read this thread I think I'll use that metal filler instead..... probably safer than the lead
I bought it because I changed a tailpanel on a 71 duster and it cracked on the seams where I used plastic because at the time I changed the panel all I had was the plastic filler.
Lasted about a month and half and cracked through the new paint.
So I was going to try the lead on my next Thanksgiving vacation project, I have a top to replace on a 70 duster but now that I read this thread I think I'll use that metal filler instead..... probably safer than the lead
The Eastwood kit will actually be "lead free" body solder, so different from the old-school stuff that was actually a large part lead. I don't think it would be any more or less safer than other body fillers, none of them are exactly good for you.
What I used on my Duster was the Eastwood kit solder as well, I have a few extra tools left over from my old man's shop where he did some actual lead work but beyond that I used the kit. It takes some practice, I think the biggest thing is making sure you tin the joint well before you even start with the solder. After that the hardest part is keeping the solder soft enough to work into the seam but not so soft that it runs off the car. For the small areas that need that kind of work on these cars it's not bad, it's not like you have to be an expert at it to get a couple of seams filled.
The solder will hold up better than the all-metal, it remains more malleable so it will be less prone to cracking at a flexible joint than the all-metal will be. Which is not to say the all-metal won't work, it will do better than plastic filler in that those joints.
I'd say give the eastwood kit a shot, worst case is you can't get it to work and you clean the joint and use the all-metal anyway. The solder kit won't ruin anything if it doesn't work out.
What I used on my Duster was the Eastwood kit solder as well, I have a few extra tools left over from my old man's shop where he did some actual lead work but beyond that I used the kit. It takes some practice, I think the biggest thing is making sure you tin the joint well before you even start with the solder. After that the hardest part is keeping the solder soft enough to work into the seam but not so soft that it runs off the car. For the small areas that need that kind of work on these cars it's not bad, it's not like you have to be an expert at it to get a couple of seams filled.
The solder will hold up better than the all-metal, it remains more malleable so it will be less prone to cracking at a flexible joint than the all-metal will be. Which is not to say the all-metal won't work, it will do better than plastic filler in that those joints.
I'd say give the eastwood kit a shot, worst case is you can't get it to work and you clean the joint and use the all-metal anyway. The solder kit won't ruin anything if it doesn't work out.
I don't know what you include as " body guys " so maybe you can clear that up. I'm sure many body shops are not using lead and a body guy like me prefers fiberglass repairs for the most part.
It depends also on how the car will be used and what area of the car is being repaired. For the most part a car that is going to be used as a cruiser or daily driver and not being raced , I would go with fiberglass/bondo and make sure it is properly treated and sealed.
It also may depend on the person getting the work done and the body shop may cater to someone's wants even if it is more expensive and not neccesary .
oh yeah, here we go again!
I think most people, including professional body shops use a certain amount of bondo or similar material. They may initially use metal to replicate original and that would be better for an area that has a flex issue. Bottom line is that when you replicate what was originall , you're replicating what failed so steps should be taken to address that issue .
@72bluNblu " soft enough to work into the seam but not so soft that it runs off the car." That there is a fine line too. I was working with 2 propane torches, so not exactly a pinpoint spot of heat. I ran a bunch off on the floor before I got the hang of it.
I like the liquid state so I know there aren't air pockets, so I ended up using my rotisserie to make the work area as level as possible, making a dam with the solder in "putty" state, then creating a liquid lake behind the dam til I was built up enough, then melted the dam down. An old time body guy came by my house at one point and said I did some fantastic lead work.
I like the liquid state so I know there aren't air pockets, so I ended up using my rotisserie to make the work area as level as possible, making a dam with the solder in "putty" state, then creating a liquid lake behind the dam til I was built up enough, then melted the dam down. An old time body guy came by my house at one point and said I did some fantastic lead work.
The old school Pink mixed bondo gets/got a bad rap when put on too thick, as a skim coat it still works well in most instances... The downside is it's plastic filler and holds moisture so it eventually fails.
Whatever method you use you need to make sure that area has a drain/vent hole in the bottom. If there is a facory one there it is probably clogged and contributed to the issue. It serves 2 purposes . Not common that enough water would build up in there to need draining but moisture can and venting helps aleviate the problem.
Don’t ruin another thread. No “body guys” use fiberglass on metal bodied cars. And no “body guy” with any level of integrity would do that work even if asked to, because they wouldn’t want to ruin their reputation with butchery.
If you’re not working on a Corvette, you’re not using fiberglass.
Hey I said it took practice right?
But yeah, it’s a fine balance between working the solder into the seams and putting it all on the floor!
It was the way that all the hot rod and custom shops used to do bodywork, and doing that kind of work is definitely an acquired skill. So a compliment from an old school body guy is awesome!
But I also wouldn’t be afraid to try it even if you haven’t done it before, especially on the areas of these cars that used it. It’s not like some unattainable skill where if you don’t have some old school body man standing over your shoulder you won’t get it right. If you get it to stick to the car and don’t leave a bunch of pockets, you did just fine! And the joints that need lead on these cars are fairly straightforward, it’s not like some wild custom where you’re doing some super complicated shapes.
But as you’re learning you’ll definitely need some extra material!
Since you’ve clearly never done lead work, how about not telling those of us that have how to do it?
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For once I totally agree with you! You have nothing relevant to add, so, bye!
i've heard tell that galvanized wire mesh and glass fibre reinforced plastic with a bondo finish is a trending method.
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