Are prices way down on classic muscle right now?

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Most younger people nowadays have a "whip out the credit card" attitude towards anything and can quickly be in over their heads financially with these older cars. With the exception of guys like Kegan and our other young guns here, they want it now and can't wait to do it theirselves, and don't care to learn how! That why they like the "plug and play" newer cars!

There is the crowd who likes the older cars with the slammed look, which is where you can get over your head! You can't spend $20k on an air bag install for a $5k duster project and then dump another $20k into paint, body and interior and expect to get your $50k back!

IMO, you gotta be patient and buy low, do it your self and be proud of what you have, and you can't do that hiding behind a credit card!! Well, unless the credit card is stolen!! Geof
 
one thing is for sure ... the days of owning multiple hotrods is slowly diminishing ... due to the price of maintaining one and the actual use it gets... + MOST definately the uncertainty of the economy ... could change in a split second ...
 
I don't think we should judge prices by what goes on at the auction houses.I think private owner sales tell a better tell.More real world for guys like us.
What goes on at places like Barrett-Jackson is high rollers most of the time.I watched a Classic car dealer buy a clapped out 70 318 Challanger for $17,000 with 4 mismatched tires and a rusted out gas tank and quarters.I asked why? He stated "Because I can. "
The last time I was there a few years ago, one guy bought 53 cars and never batted a eye.In 2006, same guy bought a custom bus built for some 50's World Fair and paid 6 million for it.Six years later I read that it was sold at auction again for a little over $100,000. I guess it was "Because I can" again.
 
if you want to see the future go to challenger talk .all ford mustang.or the new Camaro site. compare the # of people eye balling them sites to the claasic sites
 
I have witnessed the value of muscle cars over the years fluctuating from the mid-eighties when great cars where abundant and could be had for extremely reasonable prices. They were little more than discarded used cars. My first car was a 69 Charger I bought in nice shape for $1300.00. Cudas and Challengers were always one of the most desirable but I came across them for anywhere from $1,500 on up. A-bodys were everywhere and were DIRT cheap. I remember a nice 68 Hemi coronet for sale by its original owner for $7500 and thought he was crazy!! And he never sold it. I talked to him a few years ago and he said at that time if someone would of offered him $5000 at that time he would of sold it. He also told me in the 70's he tried selling it for $3500 with no luck. Later in the late 90's he was offered $40,000. As far as I know he still has it.
The last 10 years the values have came down and will never see the exaggerated values anymore, but hopefully will continue to be enough interest in the hobby to keep people restoring, fixing up these cars.
To most of the younger generation these cars are dinosaurs and they don't have the sentimental value to them as the cars do to people like myself. I raised two boys and they were always around musclecars and they do appreciate them but their idea of performance is different than mine.
I myself am enjoying the decline in value making it easier for me to enjoy my hobby and let the yuppys spend there money else where.
 
I bought mine for me but my kids conned me out of them. I never buy for investment,its because i love them. (so do my kids). its really that simple.
 
You can't get I to his hobby expecting to get your money out of it. New or old. I think where the younger guys like it is you can spend 40k of the banks money and pay it back in 60 easy monthly installments and spend your extra cash on performance parts that you can enjoy immediately. Many times outperforming vintage muscle off the showroom floor while being light years ahead in comfort and convenience.

The old ones the banks don't sponsor. Fixing it yourself takes months or years of your hardwork that you can't enjoy until the end. But a 70 bee will make more heads turn than any modern muscle!
 
It's all about supply and demand.
Low supply and high demand equals higher prices, it doesn't matter if you are talking about diamonds or cars.
Then there's the hype brought on by sellers to consumers as a marketing strategy. Barrett/Jackson is a business first and a car enthusiast company second. For us enthusiasts, it has either wrecked the hobby or brought it where it needs to be. High prices suck for us working guys, but then again we are greatly enriched by the massive influx of quality reproduction stuff available these days for our cars.
20 years ago who would have thought that they were going to reproduce dart fenders?
So to answer the question, yes the prices are coming down to where they should be, but i will add, a lot more cars are being saved with the good parts reproductions available these days.
You can thank the big three in Detroit for bringing the prices down too, they saw there was a market for new muscle cars using retro names for big profits. It's hard to argue with what a new Challenger, Mustang, or Camaro will offer in terms of performance, handling, gas mileage, ease of driving, etc. versus the cars from the '60s and '70s, all with a warranty. All for about the same price as a resto on an older muscle car or less.
 
The guy down the road from me just bought this car for $330,000 (plus $33K in fees). They said the value is down on the car now, but projected to go over $500K in value over the next year or so:
http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063815


1525674386.jpg
 
If you are doing one to make money with, treat it like a house. Make it nice, have great "Curb appeal,"/ broadest appeal, tasteful 'renovations,' make it user-friendly, and don't customize it to your taste.

Super custom motor/powertrain? Stupid.
$20K body & paint work? Stupid.
Ultra trick suspension/wheels/tires? Stupid.
"Glove" leather interior? Stupid.
Date-coded/NOS, concourse resto? Stupid- unless you really have something WAY out of the norm...and even then it's questionable

You can never make money with that kind of stuff in a 'normal' or slightly down economy. If you want or are planning to do any of that, well, keep the car and enjoy it.
 
MTmopars said:
You can't get I to his hobby expecting to get your money out of it. New or old. I think where the younger guys like it is you can spend 40k of the banks money and pay it back in 60 easy monthly installments and spend your extra cash on performance parts that you can enjoy immediately. Many times outperforming vintage muscle off the showroom floor while being light years ahead in comfort and convenience.

The old ones the banks don't sponsor. Fixing it yourself takes months or years of your hardwork that you can't enjoy until the end. But a 70 bee will make more heads turn than any modern muscle!
Click to expand...

Damn straight!
 
there will always be a good market for hi end collector cars but most A bodies don't fall into that category.
i have a couple that i would sell right now but there are no buyers and they are not worth much.
 
I think the whole new muscle is hurting the classics. I'm 38 and my first car was a 65 mustang. I now own a 66 barracuda that was handed down to me. I know most of my friends like to look at the barracuda but would never have the skills to keep it up. Most of them wouldn't know what to do with it and are baffled by the carb.

Honestly, I appreciate the older cars but if I was given the choice between a 2012 mustang with the coyote and track pack and a 70 duster 340, I would be in the mustang everyday.

I think the other car in my collection will appreciate more than my barracuda, my 1991 MR2. Turbo that is all stock.
 
all points from everyone are very true,.... i've been in the hobby since mid 80's. seen several highs in the price cycle ( and yes i beleive it to be a cycle), and like the man said, the market might go the way of the model T market.
we all know the rich man buys the highly desirable car (usually), and the poor man feeds at the botom of the lake. some play with these cars to feed their egos, as investemnt when the market and society dictates OTHERS because they love it.
For those of us that are true Moparites, we love the cars for the pure love of the huntin cars and parts, the challenge of fixin somethin, the joy of cruising down the road, the thrill of the swap meet, the rush of goin down the dragstrip, the lifetime friends we make in the hobby, and yes sometimes, in some market years , we sell some cars or parts at a small profit (and then later wish we had kept them!!??).
as that famous southern humorist once asked: " how do ya tell a "REAL" Mopar guy?" ANSWER, he owns 10-12 mopars, can only find ONLY 2-3 in the brush and weeds, only one will make it to the store and back, and he loves them all like all his children!??? LOL
resto parts? like those of us that been in this awhile, the amount of quality resto parts is massive compared to years ago. yes the prices are GREAT! ( as is tremendously HIGH!) but resto parts co. argue, less sales volume compared to chevy so must have higher prices ) TRUE. but maybe they also need to analyze how much interest these high prices KILL enthusiasm for the whole thing (that of restoring and repairing the car)???
i have buddy thats been in these cars and parts since 80's also. he will tell ya its more profit in parting out a car that in sellin it as project. restore it? yya better get a complete car, do ALL the work yurself, have one that will have a value when done, and feel luckly to sell it and break even!!!???? LOL
my opinion is this is a great time to hunt projects if a person is luckly enough to have a little extra money, he loves the less desirable cars, loves to work on them. has NO profit motive, and values his acquisitions and cars less if anyone else cherishs his slant six 61 valiant!!!! ( no disrespect intends) hey, i'd love to have one!!!! good day fellow MOPAR nuts!
 
Yes, the market is bad, but not as bad as it was in '90. You couldn't give a muscle car away during that recession. But, just like everything else when things go down they go
back up. I wish I had the money to go buy a hand full of Mopars right know.
 
I think the prices on projects and less desirable cars are down. Mostly do to people now realizing the cost of labor and parts to rebuild these cars back up to a desirable level. Even for the most basic projects, it's easy to pick up one of these cars for a couple grand and dump two grand or more into it just to make it running and road worthy again. Forget about paint, interior or bad *** drive train. That is another $10,000 to $30,000 in most cases. However I might point out that is still less than a average new car in most cases.

The nicer high end cars including restored, customized and even quality built race cars in my opinion are fetching some nice prices. I expect them to continue to rise as the cost of new cars and the parts and material used to rebuild these old cars continue to rise.
 
BTW, the market crash or economy crash wasn't 5 years back, it was 7 years back.

Today I have a total of six vehicles and most were projects from the the start, all somewhat finished today, registered, running, insured and driven..

What one does with their money or how one makes things come together is the key to vehicle happiness...
 
barbee6043 said:
all points from everyone are very true,.... i've been in the hobby since mid 80's. seen several highs in the price cycle ( and yes i beleive it to be a cycle), and like the man said, the market might go the way of the model T market.
we all know the rich man buys the highly desirable car (usually), and the poor man feeds at the botom of the lake. some play with these cars to feed their egos, as investemnt when the market and society dictates OTHERS because they love it.
For those of us that are true Moparites, we love the cars for the pure love of the huntin cars and parts, the challenge of fixin somethin, the joy of cruising down the road, the thrill of the swap meet, the rush of goin down the dragstrip, the lifetime friends we make in the hobby, and yes sometimes, in some market years , we sell some cars or parts at a small profit (and then later wish we had kept them!!??).
as that famous southern humorist once asked: " how do ya tell a "REAL" Mopar guy?" ANSWER, he owns 10-12 mopars, can only find ONLY 2-3 in the brush and weeds, only one will make it to the store and back, and he loves them all like all his children!??? LOL
resto parts? like those of us that been in this awhile, the amount of quality resto parts is massive compared to years ago. yes the prices are GREAT! ( as is tremendously HIGH!) but resto parts co. argue, less sales volume compared to chevy so must have higher prices ) TRUE. but maybe they also need to analyze how much interest these high prices KILL enthusiasm for the whole thing (that of restoring and repairing the car)???
i have buddy thats been in these cars and parts since 80's also. he will tell ya its more profit in parting out a car that in sellin it as project. restore it? yya better get a complete car, do ALL the work yurself, have one that will have a value when done, and feel luckly to sell it and break even!!!???? LOL
my opinion is this is a great time to hunt projects if a person is luckly enough to have a little extra money, he loves the less desirable cars, loves to work on them. has NO profit motive, and values his acquisitions and cars less if anyone else cherishs his slant six 61 valiant!!!! ( no disrespect intends) hey, i'd love to have one!!!! good day fellow MOPAR nuts!
Click to expand...

Great post.
Do you know me? lol
 
R4sedan....1990 yes i remember it well, !!....i was at Mopar nats, had 1971 totally original, number matching 383(4BBL CAR) challener SE conv, in 71 it was an RT without the RT designation, triple black, no rust ever, fresh repaint.every thing fresh (perfect) except pretty darn nice ,,,... original carpet.. sold there for $10,000 went to Canada, guy next to me had 70 383 challenger conv car, his was 4 spd mine console auto. his sold there for like $16 or 17,000. i had only one offer!!!! i asked more, but big time Mopar jockey, told me sell, the market has crashed but most people don't know it yet! he was right. funny thing was the car mags kept telling people months later how so and so sold their car for big $$$$$. and the market is GREAAATTTT! seems they were trying to help their rich friends dump their cars before the whole world had figured the bubble had burst!!! LOL.
for months and years Mopar folks would call me and ask about some car i had advertised for sale,but there wern't any Mopar high end buyers, ALL people like me that were low to mid income people ... they were the real entusiasts ( not the high rollers from pre 90). problem was, NO cars were moving, the caller would have say 6 mopar projects, couldn't sell any to buy my car. every night the same type caller... each year after though i saw the market get about 10-15% stronger each year and before many years people were giving $5000 for 383 "69 runners that not too many years before i wouldn't have bought for even a parts car!! LOL
like alot of people on here have said, best to own these old cars cause we love em! if ya want an investment maybe pick something besides old cars!!!! new cars as investments? i'm not smart enough to predict the future for sure, but i recall Vette people that bought a new one and stored it with 0000 miles, only decades later to find out it really wasn't worth SQUAT!!! LOl
 
I don't understand why people are so fixated on making money (or even breaking even) out of classic car ownership. It's a hobby.. And not a cheap one. You don't hear golfers say "well, i spent $6k on clubs and green fees and hideous shirts last year, but if i hold onto it long enough, that money is coming back!!"... Ditto game fishermen, target shooters, drag racers, ****** addicts etc etc.

I've got $14k (Australian. Maybe $11k USD) in my Scamp, but I've loved every minute of working on it, driving it, having people looking at it, seeing the glint of chrome through the garage window when i mow the lawn. If I keep it for 7 years and then set fire to it in a pagan funeral ceremony, i figure I spent $2k a year on a cool hobby (more including gas etc, but you can't avoid buying gas unless you're a bicycle enthusiast..)

$2k a year is only 300 bar-price beers, but i don't expect my late night pee to be worth anything...
 
barbee6043 said:
R4sedan....1990 yes i remember it well, !!....i was at Mopar nats, had 1971 totally original, number matching 383(4BBL CAR) challener SE conv, in 71 it was an RT without the RT designation, triple black, no rust ever, fresh repaint.every thing fresh (perfect) except pretty darn nice ,,,... original carpet.. sold there for $10,000 went to Canada, guy next to me had 70 383 challenger conv car, his was 4 spd mine console auto. his sold there for like $16 or 17,000. i had only one offer!!!! i asked more, but big time Mopar jockey, told me sell, the market has crashed but most people don't know it yet! he was right. funny thing was the car mags kept telling people months later how so and so sold their car for big $$$$$. and the market is GREAAATTTT! seems they were trying to help their rich friends dump their cars before the whole world had figured the bubble had burst!!! LOL.
for months and years Mopar folks would call me and ask about some car i had advertised for sale,but there wern't any Mopar high end buyers, ALL people like me that were low to mid income people ... they were the real entusiasts ( not the high rollers from pre 90). problem was, NO cars were moving, the caller would have say 6 mopar projects, couldn't sell any to buy my car. every night the same type caller... each year after though i saw the market get about 10-15% stronger each year and before many years people were giving $5000 for 383 "69 runners that not too many years before i wouldn't have bought for even a parts car!! LOL
like alot of people on here have said, best to own these old cars cause we love em! if ya want an investment maybe pick something besides old cars!!!! new cars as investments? i'm not smart enough to predict the future for sure, but i recall Vette people that bought a new one and stored it with 0000 miles, only decades later to find out it really wasn't worth SQUAT!!! LOl
Click to expand...

Yeah, I never looked to make money on these cars. I just loved owning them. My problem was I wanted and still do want more than one. in '89 I had bought a Challenger Convt. that's why I was looking to sell my '70 Charger in '90 I had that car all the way through H.S. I had to sell one to re-store the other. Looking back I should have figured out a way to keep those cars, but that's life. As one guy on here was saying a lot of guys seem to be buying the new hot rods and the younger guys that buy the new hit rods don't seem to care much for the older cars. I myself own a new Challenger and it is a joy to drive!
 
I bought my 73 Cuda 340 4 spd, numbers matching for $1250.00 in 1985.I got a deal, because it might have been worth 2K at the time.It was in super nice shape.
1 Year later I was at the mopar drags in fremont Calif. when I saw a 71 hemi 4spd Cuda all restored for sale for 8K. I had the money at the time, and figured I would spend that much on my 73. But I just couldn't get behind the bronze with white interior, so I passed.
A few years later they went to 75K, and a few more years 5 times that.I often thought about that car, and what I passed up, but then I realized I wouldn't have had as much fun as I have with my 73.I have drag raced it with a transbrake and different motor,
I 've raced it at at least 10 different tracks,then put it back to stock with just a few mods like a 6 pack.I've driven it way up into Canada to a show, and up to Tahoe when I lived in California. I even thought about driving it on a long road trip like to back east.I watched it go to like 50K in value, to now what it may be worth 25-30K.I drive it anywhere,park it anywhere, only have a total of about 5K in it, including the 1 re-paint 25 years ago that still looks good.Original non cracked dash etc.
When I think about that Hemi Cuda, I only think about how I wouldn't have ever driven it, let alone raced it. I would have struggled through the years thinking I should have sold it because of it's value, or then again thinking I should have kept it, only because it would be worth more.All the time worring about someone stealing it.
What I am saying is,I enjoy my Cuda not for what it is worth, because I like it, love driving it, and yet I don't have to worry about it.Don't have to think about what it's value will be tommorow.
I guess I am just a dieheart Mopar guy, and the longer I keep it, the more good memeories I have with the car.
Like the guy from Oz said,I would have spent more on beer then that over the last 30 years, and if it burns to the ground tommorow, I will be sad, but not because of the money I lost, because of the memories.
 
Muscle car prices are way down for sure, especially in decline since the muscle car boom from 2005-2008. At BJ in 2006, an Orange 1970 Hemicuda rag, sold for $ 2 million, plus 10% buyers fee. January, 2013, at BJ, a FC7 1971 Hemicuda rag, sold for $1,125,0000. In 2006, the Ray Allen 1970 LS6 VERT' CHevelle sold for 1 million. A few years later, it sold for 200k. And it's not just the high end cars either. 20-30 k buys one hell of a nice Musclecar these days. I am glad the prices are down. Hopefully the "Musclecar Brokers" are feeling the pinch. My car is still in the garage, and I still LOVE IT. Makes no difference to me.
 
i guess the older i get the more intrigued i am with human nature!?? i think enjoying working on these are cars is something that is in your genes or its not. and i don't necessarily mean if you were born a talented gearhead. a guy a few things back up, looks at his $$ spent on his car and knows those are $$ spent on his hobby which he loves. all worth the cost, i agree.like they said, $$ spent on a hobby is supposed to be returned back to you!?? i understand where we like to sometimes sell a car we have spent hours of work on and bundles of $$ on, we would like to sell it and get some of that back. i do too. but one thing i have found is a great satisfaction selling a car to someone that loves the car as i did, appreciates all the work and $$ i put in it. i get totally p o to sell Joe Blow the car for far less than what i had in it, to later see him, and all he does is complain because a thermostat went out and he thought i had replaced that TOO!
one thing i wish i could do is catch the "newbie" and explain to him some of what i call pitfalls. before he falls victim to them, but i have also found alot of us have to learn things the hard way!!??
those of us that have been in this hobby for decades can tell you. years back ( money wise), no one cared about 318 challengers, there was NO such thing as a clone, we all threw away /6 as fast as they showed up, 340 71 dusters , well ya had to almost pay someone to come get the thing!!! LOL but TRUE!
i will end my conversation here now by saying i think the lower prices are great for the hobby as ( in previous price cycles) it get rid of the wealthy investor for a large part, i have nothin against rich people if they get in the hobby for the love of it and not just to see if they can buy low and sell sky high!! HEY, maybe i'll meet one of those mega buck car guys and he will adpot me as his "grandpa" and BUY me a new set of tools ( and a M code A body)!!?????????????????
 
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