BALANCED

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Amata Bene

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So, I have been mulling this over for a minute. I picked up my block and crank from the machine shop a while back. Checked the work, coated it with WD, and bagged it. In the meantime, I worked on porting the J-heads, disassembling the 904, cleaning and inspecting, along with gathering the remaining parts for reassembly of the motor and trans. Not to mention working on the jobs that come into my shop. The whole while with a nagging statement in the back of my mind, “That’s not how they do it.”

As I have said in other posts in this and fellow forums, I am not an engine builder, a mechanic, a transmission guy, or anything that resembles these. I have always been good with a wrench and building things. Which at best makes me a good shade-tree grease monkey that has had some success. Couple hot rods when I was younger, some bikes through the years and to present and Jeeps. My forte for the last 40 years or so has been steel, lots, and lots of steel. I own and operate my own small welding repair shop now. It keeps me busy and helps me think I’m contributing to the family budget. My wife and I both know the truth though, LOL. I play a lot more than I earn. Good thing we made our money early. The health care and steel industry set us up and we are blessed. Glory be to God.

I digress, back to that nagging statement, “That’s not how they do it.” This statement was made when I was picking up my finished 340 block and crank from the machine shop. When I dropped off the block with the crank and rods, I also left an unopened box of KB243.040 slugs, pins, and locks with instructions to replace the mains and rod caps with ARP hardware and balance the rotating assembly. While waiting for the rod bolts to arrive they called and asked if I wanted them to assemble the rods and pistons. I said sure it’s one (8) less thing for me to assemble. I was paying the balance on my bill and asked how they marked the rod and piston combo for me to know what hole they go in. The woman at the counter said they still have the stampings that I marked them with. Confused, I replied, wouldn’t they move rods around while doing the balancing to match up heavy rods with light pistons and what not. She says “That’s not how they do it. They weigh one rod, one piston, one set of rings, one pin, and one set of locks and then balance the crank to that.” Confused and not going full steelworker on her, I collected my receipt, went out to my truck, checked the straps, climbed in, and pointed it towards home. With more than 50 miles to go I had plenty of time to ponder this. I made a couple phone calls and confirmed I wasn’t completely crazy. To their defense the work performed is spot on, well within all tolerances. Actually, really good. Just the whole balance thing.

I am not building a race engine (right now). This is only going to be a well performing street engine that will see some hard hits showing off and the occasional rip down the track. One of the fellas I talk with is an automotive machinist with his own shop and a very impressive pedigree. He is slammed with work, always is. 3 month waiting list minimum. He told me to buy a good scale and see what I get weighing each assembly. Well about $160 later and I have my scale. It is very sensitive. Might be a bit much for auto parts iiwii. Just can’t exhale on it while in use lol.

Had the time today to weigh each rod & piston combo. The list is below. I will talk with “Joe” about the results but that will be on his schedule so it could be several days. In the meantime have a look and I’m open to easy fixes. This is according to how the engine came apart with the stamping on the rods and caps.

  • 1477.72
  • 1485.67
  • 1483.17
  • 1481.77
  • 1479.09
  • 1477.82
  • 1483.02
  • 1489.76
Because they are KB pistons, I feel they will be close and probably will not need anything. The rods are stock full floaters with the new ARP bolts and sized. This is where it all goes to hell. We all know how well Chrysler balanced all their rods. Because the rods have been sized and honed the option to move them around is on the table. I think. I could be wrong. I don’t think I want the heaviest combos at each end of the crank. At least if I understand all that I have read and looked at. I know I am worrying about 10.67 grams, but better is better. Right? Again, I am not a mechanic by trade. I know what I don’t Know.
 
They should have match weighed each end of all the rods to the lightest, and matched all the pistons to each other.
 
Yup you paid for nothing if you paid them to balance.

Now, having said THAT, let's address something else unrelated.

All too often, I see people make reference to WD40 using it as an agent to deter rust. That is not what it does and in fact, it will CAUSE rust. I will explain. WD40 as its name implies is a "waterdisplacer". In other words, if you want water and miosture out of a cretain area, that's what it is made for. It is in no way a penetrating oil or a metal protectant. WD40 will infact completely evaporate over time and actually CAUSE rust. I don't care what any of these forum experts say "I've been using WD40 for fifty years blah blah blah...." I am telling you the 100% truth. What you want if you want to protect something long term is a product made for such and WD40 AIN'T it. I highly recommend a product called Fluid Film. It is thick and will stay put until you wash it off for assembly. I have parts that have been bagged for YEARS coated with Fluid Film that are still as rust free as they came from the machine shop.

Just a friendly bit of advice.
 
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@RustyRatRod Thanks for the info. Is that a product normally stocked by oh let's say O'Reilly or should I look elsewhere?
 
He’s right,,,,coat them well if you’re going to store them for a while .
Another good product is Cosmoline,,,,,it’s been used since long before my birth .

Tommy
 
Moving them around will change nothing , KB pistons are very close in weight the difference is in the rod weights . Piss poor balance job , might want to double check all their work.
 
There is a difference between “balancing a rotating assembly” and weight matching all of the parts of a rotating assembly. What they did was calculate the bob weight and “balance” to that. It’s the right way to balance. Weight matching all of the individual parts is another necessary process to make sure the balance job is right. Do not go grinding on rods to balance them though if they are assembled. The small ends and the big ends have to be weighed separately and carefully with a proper rod scale, then matched, and then do the pistons. Grams matter.
 
Did they give you a balance sheet ? That will show everything they did.

100_0025.JPG


100_0026.JPG


100_0039.JPG
 
There is a difference between “balancing a rotating assembly” and weight matching all of the parts of a rotating assembly. What they did was calculate the bob weight and “balance” to that. It’s the right way to balance. Weight matching all of the individual parts is another necessary process to make sure the balance job is right. Do not go grinding on rods to balance them though if they are assembled. The small ends and the big ends have to be weighed separately and carefully with a proper rod scale, then matched, and then do the pistons. Grams lives matter.
I fixed it for you. LOL
 
I highly recommend a product called Fluid Film
Fluid Film..... Or Gibbs if that is available to you....good stuff. Cosmoline has it uses, but its a completely different animal.

We raced dirt bikes back in the day....went thru tons of wd40 after a wash.... it was good to get the water that slipped past seals into the chain and bearings, but everything still needed lube proper after drying.
 
Fluid Film..... Or Gibbs if that is available to you....good stuff. Cosmoline has it uses, but its a completely different animal.

We raced dirt bikes back in the day....went thru tons of wd40 after a wash.... it was good to get the water that slipped past seals into the chain and bearings, but everything still needed lube proper after drying.
EXACTLY what it was invented for. Too many people think it's a lubricant. It ain't. lol
 
How do the posted variances stack up to say, a factory sbm?

How about a more modern factory engine?

Short of something exotic, I can't imagine OEMs will spend any time trying to match things up as finely.
 
Picked up some Fluid Film and PB Surface Shield on the way home last night. Hell I'll try (almost) anything twice. First times practice. :p
 
@Oldmanmopar : No. They didn't give me documentation of any of the work and I did ask. Didn't request it when I dropped everything off. Didn't think it necessary because all other machine shops I've used write everything down for reference and available on request. That is why I spent a few hours checking everything when I got it back to the shop. It all mic's out good. Their machine work is spot on, it's just this whole balance thing. I'm still studying on the balancing process and trying to understand it more thoroughly. I know from experience that just putting fast parts on does not mean faster. It can lead to catastrophic failure. Ask me how I know. :(
 
Yes WD40, displaces moisture, dries off & the corrosion starts again.

The best rust preventative is ATF. It does not dry out like engine oil. Problem with solids like grease is you could miss a section, or accidentally wipe a section, & the protection has gone. Next time you drain an auto trans, keep the ATF for the above. Does not have to be new ATF.
 
EXACTLY what it was invented for. Too many people think it's a lubricant. It ain't. lol
WD-40 supposedly made with whale oil originally. Not sure why or if if it was good.
Todays formula seems changed and is a better penetrating oil now. The packaging w/ swivel straw is great. I take folding straw mount and remount on Sea Foam can, you have to cut a small amount off the Sea Foam nozzle mount to make it the correct height/length. Then WD-40 spray head clicks on can. Sea Foam works much better as a penetrating oil.
 
So the best thing about WD40 is the packaging? I agree!

Sea foam deep creep for penetrant
Tri-flow for lubricant
 
Tri-flow has Teflon, proven bad for your health in many forms including cooking pans coatings. And they've repeatedly lied about their safety.
So NO WAY am I using an Aerosol that contains such a hazardous product!
 

Tri-flow has Teflon, proven bad for your health in many forms including cooking pans coatings. And they've repeatedly lied about their safety.
So NO WAY am I using an Aerosol that contains such a hazardous product!
None of the fuel, brake clean, carb clean, wax, etc is good for you? If you won't eat it then don't breath it or get it on your skin because you body will have to do something with it.

Are any of these products good for health?
 
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Ahh...I get you, and I "feel" your mental torment (if you want to call it that - I would though - lol).

I say this b/c I went through a very similar thing when prepping for my 408 stroker build.

My approach was as follows:
1) I measured each component weight, and tried to balance stuff around to level things out. Lucky for me, there wasn't much disparity.

2) I then brought this matrix to the shop that did my balancing and given that we were 3g off (lightest to heaviest) they felt we could aim for the middle spot.

Everything else is pure faith that they did the right thing.

I've attached what my blueprinting spreadsheet shows for this.

balance_card.jpg


reciprocating_weight.jpg
 
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