Beer is riding on an argument.

[HemiSSDart]

So Mr. Norm did not do the swaps at his dealership huh?
Was fender tags all denoted still as a 383?

Right, the swap was done at Hurst-Campbell in Detroit. The fender tag was still for a 383 GTS...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Hipo chevy dealers did do something similar to Mr Norm, putting 427s in cars you couldn't get them in..... until GM came up with the COPO (Central Office Production Order). Then, if you knew how, and had a cooperative dealer, the factory would put your 427 camaro together. The dealers didn't have to do it anymore. A COPO order was how you could get a ZL1 in a camaro (but not a chevelle or nova)
I had a friend (since passed) that had a COPO 375 horse 396 camaro.
Why a camaro that could be had with a 396 anywhere, was a COPO, was never properly explained.

Yes. Even 454s in Vegas through Baldwin Motion Performance Chevrolet. But those weren't factory offerings. Just like the 68 440 Darts and 68 Hemi A bodies. They didn't come straight from Chrysler. They were modified elsewhere.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Nope, that was a Hemi Dart. GSS's were LS23M8B, Hemi Darts were LO23M8B. And all the GSS's retained the 383 FOUR BARREL emblems on the fenders, though a couple have been found without any callout...

Do you know if all the 68 440 Darts were sold exclusively by Grand Spaulding Dodge?

 

[HemiSSDart]

Do you know if all the 68 440 Darts were sold exclusively by Grand Spaulding Dodge?

Yes. Also there were 6 made for Super Stock racing by Chrysler however, not many of them are known. Dick Landy had one, Kyle Kohr has one that used to be raced by Saddleback Dodge in California and he races it today.

 

[jos51700]

Then yours is a 71. By 72 they new that the Demon name was going away so they put Dart back on them for the upcoming 73 Dart Sport...

So you're telling me that the marker lights, grille, dash frame, instrument module, VIN number (verified on the core support, door, and on the chassis), date codes on the glass and tail lights, bumpers, interior, broadcast sheets, and paint scheme were all incorrect and it was really a '71 because it didn't have a Dart nameplate on the trunk?

Yeah, makes perfect sense.

 

[Super-Cuda]

That's the first/only '72 340 Demon I've seen with Dart emblems on the deck lid, and my 340 Demon sure didn't have that. Is it a Canada thing?

Just found this on-line..

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/19...fordable-mopar-muscle-in-a-bulletproof-shell/




"....There were minimal changes for the ’72 season—including a new grille following the rest of the Dart line, a revised instrument panel, a flat-folding front passenger seat, and a single hood scoop for the 340 in lieu of the outboard twins seen on the ’71s. Base price rose slightly to $2,759. It was also quietly renamed the Dart Demon, with a Dart nameplate appearing on the body. The 340 was “retuned” for 1972, which included a drop in compression; this was also the point where a change in power ratings went into effect. It all added up to the ’72 Demon 340 being rated at 240 horsepower. The 3.91:1 rear end ratio option was also retired.



For 1972, overall Demon sales halved, to 40,000 sold, although once again just over 10,000 Demon 340s were built for the year; as an overall percentage of Demons sold, the Demon 340 doubled its importance in Dodge showrooms. That’s a strong showing for the hot version, particularly as the whole muscle car movement was largely closing up shop. But compared to Plymouth’s 53,000 Duster 340s sold with just a six-month head start, Demon 340’s 20,000 units make it a far rarer beast today, despite the differences being purely cosmetic. Today, it means that on average, a Demon 340 is nearly ten percent more dear than a comparable Duster, with the Demon’s average sale topping $50,000 for a ’71 and $40,000 for a ’72...."

 

[Super-Cuda]

Yes. Also there were 6 made for Super Stock racing by Chrysler however, not many of them are known. Dick Landy had one, Kyle Kohr has one that used to be raced by Saddleback Dodge in California and he races it today.

View attachment 1716401613

I was just reading that the 440 engines were supplied by Chrysler for these special GTS Darts and shipped to Hurst-Cambell for installation.

Were they the 375/390 HP engines or something special?

Also, did they have special exhaust manifolds or were they the 383 manifolds?

 

[4fortyDemon]

Technically the Demon was still a Dart and had a 340 through 1972. In fact the 72 340 Demon had DART on the trunk lid...

View attachment 1716401402

Dart only showed up on the trunk of the 72 Demon , not the 71 though.

 

[Dana67Dart]

The funny thing is I still remember being in a conversation with some Direct-Connection guy's. They were talking about "Back-Door" ways HP engines were put in "A" bodies, and the need to know how to code the build sheet

I'm sure you could get a 4bbl HP engine if only a standard engine was fired if you knew the right things to say.

That's different than getting a 400 in place of a 383 or getting a 440 inplace of a 383

 

[missing linc]

1971 Dart (Swinger) was not available with a 340 unless you lived in Canada and ordered from one of two dealers. Crestview or Crosstown only. They were a limited run special order from Chrysler Canada and not available in normal production or in the U.S. no matter what codes you used or who you knew.

There were also a very limited number of Canadian only 1972 Dart Swinger 340 cars built as well, possibly 40 or so. Pembina Dodge in Winnipeg also sold a few of them in 71.

 

[HemiSSDart]

So you're telling me that the marker lights, grille, dash frame, instrument module, VIN number (verified on the core support, door, and on the chassis), date codes on the glass and tail lights, bumpers, interior, broadcast sheets, and paint scheme were all incorrect and it was really a '71 because it didn't have a Dart nameplate on the trunk?

Yeah, makes perfect sense.

So yours is a 72 340 Demon? A little context would be nice. I have helped restore a few and had a few survivor 72 340 Demons and they all had Dart on the deck lid...

 

[HemiSSDart]

I was just reading that the 440 engines were supplied by Chrysler for these special GTS Darts and shipped to Hurst-Cambell for installation.

Were they the 375/390 HP engines or something special?

Also, did they have special exhaust manifolds or were they the 383 manifolds?

Yes, 375 horsepower 440 Magnum engines. The passenger exhaust manifold was from the 383 A-Body with a 3/4" spacer added and the drivers side was a special casting (017) for the 440 A-Body only. It used the factory exhaust for the 383 that is why the spacer was needed on the passenger side because the drivers side was 3/4" longer...

 

[YY1]

You could not get a 383 2 barrel in a 67-69 Dart, either.

 

[Woodward]

So to sum-up... since threads never topic wander

So to condense the question... The largest engine available for a 71 "A" body is a 340, regardless who actually married the two... Correct?

Also, you guy's are great! I haven't been on here for a while
and forgot just how much i learn!

Thanks!

 

[Super-Cuda]

Yes, 375 horsepower 440 Magnum engines. The passenger exhaust manifold was from the 383 A-Body with a 3/4" spacer added and the drivers side was a special casting (017) for the 440 A-Body only. It used the factory exhaust for the 383 that is why the spacer was needed on the passenger side because the drivers side was 3/4" longer...

Thanks for the info.

BTW, Is the casting (017) for the driver side manifold the same as the M-Codes produced in 69?

 

[HemiSSDart]

Thanks for the info.

BTW, Is the casting (017) for the driver side manifold the same as the M-Codes produced in 69?

They were only produced n 1969 for the M-codes, the 1968 M-Code Dart GSS used the 67 002 manifold, most of those were pitched for headers quickly...

 

[HemiSSDart]

So to sum-up... since threads never topic wander

So to condense the question... The largest engine available for a 71 "A" body is a 340, regardless who actually married the two... Correct?

Also, you guy's are great! I haven't been on here for a while
and forgot just how much i learn!

Thanks!

Yes, the 340 was the largest displacement engine in a 71 A-Body...

 

[jos51700]

So yours is a 72 340 Demon? A little context would be nice. I have helped restore a few and had a few survivor 72 340 Demons and they all had Dart on the deck lid...

So I asked Rick Ehrenberg, and he said that all of the factory literature showed both Dodge and Dart badges are supposed to be included, so my apologies to you, you were correct that all '72's are supposed to!

That said, mine did not have holes in the decklid for the emblem(s), and I've seen many that don't. So that makes me think maybe there was a badge shortage or something. I can't remember where mine was made, that could be a factor too. Rick also said that there was a revision to the paperwork so it's possible they revised it midyear or something.

 

[Dartswinger70]

Didn't Hitler stir up the Nazis while drinking beer...?

Decklids can be tricky as tehy can be replaced for various reasons. On a 70 swinger 340 it says "Dart Swinger" on the deck if it just says Dodge etc. its not correct. In my case I had to welkd holes shut and redrill to put the correct deck emblems on my go wing enforced decklid.

 

[Alfajim]

So I asked Rick Ehrenberg, and he said that all of the factory literature showed both Dodge and Dart badges are supposed to be included, so my apologies to you, you were correct that all '72's are supposed to!

That said, mine did not have holes in the decklid for the emblem(s), and I've seen many that don't. So that makes me think maybe there was a badge shortage or something. I can't remember where mine was made, that could be a factor too. Rick also said that there was a revision to the paperwork so it's possible they revised it midyear or something.

Loved you line in your signature line about Angular contact bearings, just ask anyone from the old days as GM used them on the front wheels for years and a real PITA to regrease and set up getting the correct end play with the spacer and castle nut torque.
But what goes around comes around as all modern open wheel race cars use angular contact single element ball bearings in all the hubs front and rear with special grease. It is because they are a lot less friction than taper roller bearings and run cooler also. Set up is critical too, and the proper grease.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Loved you line in your signature line about Angular contact bearings

7.25 uses Angular contact bearings
Ford 9" uses Angular contact bearings.

There is nothing wrong with angular contact bearings.

 

[MadScientistMat]

Taking this question further: What was the wildest A-body engine that could be ordered in a four door, and was this just on paper or was this combo actually built?

 

[jos51700]

Loved you line in your signature line about Angular contact bearings, just ask anyone from the old days as GM used them on the front wheels for years and a real PITA to regrease and set up getting the correct end play with the spacer and castle nut torque.
But what goes around comes around as all modern open wheel race cars use angular contact single element ball bearings in all the hubs front and rear with special grease. It is because they are a lot less friction than taper roller bearings and run cooler also. Set up is critical too, and the proper grease.

7.25 uses Angular contact bearings
Ford 9" uses Angular contact bearings.

There is nothing wrong with angular contact bearings.

Lol that was a quote from a member here in a green bearing thread and it was so wrong I had to write it down. I never thought anyone would pay attention to it

 

[jos51700]

Taking this question further: What was the wildest A-body engine that could be ordered in a four door, and was this just on paper or was this combo actually built?

There was a four door Belvidere with a factory 426 Hemi featured in Mopar Action a few years back.
(Your post didn't specify if the four door has to be an A Body)

 

[Alfajim]

Lol that was a quote from a member here in a green bearing thread and it was so wrong I had to write it down. I never thought anyone would pay attention to it

Maybe that is why Ford used the straddle mount pinion?
Angular contact bearings really are a PITA to set up, all CNC mills use them in the spindle, had to rebuild a spindle in an older Mori Seki machine it was one of the older special 10.000 rpm spindles so required special high speed bearing available from one source and the pair was $1200.0 as the spindle was different for the high speed couldn't use the regular bearings.