Before I even consider...
- Thread starter Shamrock--WV2NC
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AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Ok let me rephrase this;
Because I have run three different cams in the same engine, I have experienced first-hand what these three cams bring to the table in terms of torque and power.
Further, the cams cost about the same, so why give up so much Dcr and efficiency with a crappy cam. Sorry, I meant lo-tech cam,lol.
Further, My Eddies are OOTB stock, very little more powerful than nice Xs, and I am forced to run more Dcr just to keep up with those same nice Xs.
Even so, Dcr in the 6s for an iron-headed 360, is slow-performance from idle to perhaps somewhere around 3600/4000 with a proper 272, never mind this one.
And again, I'm not picking on your combo. IIRC,your goals have always accompanied your build, and you did an excellent job.And that is not just my opinion, but rather, you proved it.
yeah, and I get the feeling the OP was at wits end, having plan A fail. I think he was trying to salvage some parts and try to get the thing going. If he can find a 360 to bolt on the leftovers, and get the car going, I think we'd have a happy OP
ScampMike
Despicable Damn Yankee
yea, they'll work. If you're buying new anyway, might I suggest you look at the Edelbrock Air Gap intake instead - 7576. Also, for about the same $$ - get a QuickFuel carburetor. Just some food for thought.
If you open up performers ports to 360 size you close the hp gap a bit apparently pick up about 20 hp. Plus at the lowest rpms the performer does have a slight advantage and better in colder weather. Not recommending one over the other just saying.
Oh, and your 2bbl kickdown linkage and throttle cable will work just fine.
Sorry, different camera so poor quality video.
Sorry, different camera so poor quality video.
ScampMike
Despicable Damn Yankee
roger that - it all depends on the goals of the build really
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
It depends on the goals for the car/engine, and the preferences of the user. I think the OP can make something very good out of his parts and a stock CR 360 but the lower end RPM is gonna be 'soft'. That is just the way it is.
Shamrock--WV2NC
Well-Known Member
Right about now anything is an improvement. It's not going to be a strip car. It will go to the strip and make some passes but it's really for me and the wife to enjoy. The way I figured was hey I already have these parts. Might as well put them to use. The original 318 build was on a budget. (Thanks 318Will). This build is no different. In fact with all the other problems I've run into my budget is way past blown. I just want to have safe, reliable, fun.
get a good long block motor and add what you have and you'll be there. Good luck
I wouldn't worry about it people are over thinking this one. You got two guys on here with the same cam and are happy with and one is a 318 if was gonna turn any engine into a turd it would be his over a 360.
Shamrock--WV2NC
Well-Known Member
I believe this is correct for my 318 to 360 swap in my 74 Dart with a904 transmission
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Turd is in the definition. If you've never had a fast-rate cam, you can't have a basis of comparison . Once you have had a fast-rate I cannot imagine going back. 56* is awful slow. On the upside I once heard of a slower one, right here on FABO, but I forget just how slow it was. So 56 is the second slowest I ever heard of.
And the 272,with an ICA of 62*, the Dcr works out to 6.5/123psi on an 8.0 engine, and at sealevel. 1000ft drops it to 6.3/118psi. That makes a mighty soft bottom end.
Whereas same 216 cam @050 but at say a 260* advertised, that Dcr might jump up to 6.8/130; still soft but now over 10% better.
Getting the compression up to say 9.5, would possibly jump the Dcr with the 260* cam up to 8.1/161psi. Now we're getting somewhere. That's 36% better. And if you've never driven a 360 with over 160 psi, well........ now you're in for a treat!
As a comparison, IIRC the stock cam was a 252*/112. That cam might make,in an 8.0 engine, a Dcr of 6.9/132psi. So, as you can see, the 272*@123, is already 8% softer than the stocker, which itself was pretty soft. Whereas the 9.5 engine with the fastrate 260* is 22% better than the stocker.
What about the stock cam in the 9.5 engine?heehee.Glad you asked; 8.2@164psi.
So as for me, I'd jump the compression up before I would change the cam. Waaaaaay cheaper in the end.
More bottom end "power",
Power from idle to 4000, just where you need it.
stock TC,
stock rear gears,
stock exhaust even,
you could even run the stock 2bbl,
more mpgs,
Slap the pedal and squalk the tires,
Waaaay more fun in the end.
Easy decision;
what's a set of 9.5 pistons cost,installed, to make the idle to 4000 zone almost spectacular; where the car operates something like 90/95% of the time;
VS what's it cost to band-aid that 272* with gears and a hi-stall, headers and hi-flo, plus a 4bbl kit, plus upgrades to the fuel,ignition and cooling systems;to operate in that 5000 to 6500 zone, like once in a blu-moon?
As for me, me and that cam would have a date with a bungee-cord, and I would launch her into last Wednesday, never to be seen again.
And the 272,with an ICA of 62*, the Dcr works out to 6.5/123psi on an 8.0 engine, and at sealevel. 1000ft drops it to 6.3/118psi. That makes a mighty soft bottom end.
Whereas same 216 cam @050 but at say a 260* advertised, that Dcr might jump up to 6.8/130; still soft but now over 10% better.
Getting the compression up to say 9.5, would possibly jump the Dcr with the 260* cam up to 8.1/161psi. Now we're getting somewhere. That's 36% better. And if you've never driven a 360 with over 160 psi, well........ now you're in for a treat!
As a comparison, IIRC the stock cam was a 252*/112. That cam might make,in an 8.0 engine, a Dcr of 6.9/132psi. So, as you can see, the 272*@123, is already 8% softer than the stocker, which itself was pretty soft. Whereas the 9.5 engine with the fastrate 260* is 22% better than the stocker.
What about the stock cam in the 9.5 engine?heehee.Glad you asked; 8.2@164psi.
So as for me, I'd jump the compression up before I would change the cam. Waaaaaay cheaper in the end.
More bottom end "power",
Power from idle to 4000, just where you need it.
stock TC,
stock rear gears,
stock exhaust even,
you could even run the stock 2bbl,
more mpgs,
Slap the pedal and squalk the tires,
Waaaay more fun in the end.
Easy decision;
what's a set of 9.5 pistons cost,installed, to make the idle to 4000 zone almost spectacular; where the car operates something like 90/95% of the time;
VS what's it cost to band-aid that 272* with gears and a hi-stall, headers and hi-flo, plus a 4bbl kit, plus upgrades to the fuel,ignition and cooling systems;to operate in that 5000 to 6500 zone, like once in a blu-moon?
As for me, me and that cam would have a date with a bungee-cord, and I would launch her into last Wednesday, never to be seen again.
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AJ/FormS I get what your saying.
But the question was I have this cam carb and intake will they work fine together in a 360 and the answer is YES.
Is there better part of course there is But not worth dumping his parts and spend $1000-1500 On different combo for a little bump more.
The only extra thing I'd do is open the performer ports to 360 size.
But the question was I have this cam carb and intake will they work fine together in a 360 and the answer is YES.
Is there better part of course there is But not worth dumping his parts and spend $1000-1500 On different combo for a little bump more.
The only extra thing I'd do is open the performer ports to 360 size.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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And I get what you are saying
But nowhere does he say here that he owns these parts, only; "Before I even consider..going to a 360,I'd like to know how these parts would work."
Shamrock--WV2NC
Well-Known Member
I own the parts
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Ohhhhhhhhhhh
Well I'd still throw that cam away lol,
Well I'd still throw that cam away lol,
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Budgets are budgets and at least all the parts work. And I bet the OP will be happy to get things going in any fashion....sorry for the setback, OP. It just happens from time to time when you are gearheading.
I'll offer the suggestion to the OP that if there is any chance of affording H405P pistons, then put those in to help the lower RPM soft spot. They will boost the static CR by a point or a bit more and are the least cost CR boost ($140 for a set of 8), and don't require an engine rebalance. I'd surely do this if the 360 block was worn and required boring.
And, that REALLLY slow ramp cam that AJ refers to is the Crane HE I used years and years ago on a 351C. 62 degrees between advertised and duration @ .050" lift. It was actually designed to be that way for a good reason; it performed with no low end soft spot and a stock TC. But that was because the static CR was 10.3 to start with, and the overall durations were still low (254 advertised on intake), for a DCR just over 8; the PO is gonna be in the 6's with the stock 360 CR as pointed out. That small seeming cam revved well into the 6k range, with 6500 RPM as the "best upshift" RPM (good lift with 1.73 ratio rockers), plus the good breathing heads, intake, headers, etc. So the idea that a small duration cam excessively chokes flow is not always the case; it is all in the combo.
All built on a budget at 22 years of age, on a sailor's paltry pay in 1975 pay, heads ported by me, etc. So the comment that you need to spend a ton of money to build a combo like AJ describes is nonsense; one can always trade time for money to some extent. Just use $1000-1500 as a budget instead $500 and a lot of possibilities open up; it'll still take some sweat at that price range.
I'll offer the suggestion to the OP that if there is any chance of affording H405P pistons, then put those in to help the lower RPM soft spot. They will boost the static CR by a point or a bit more and are the least cost CR boost ($140 for a set of 8), and don't require an engine rebalance. I'd surely do this if the 360 block was worn and required boring.
And, that REALLLY slow ramp cam that AJ refers to is the Crane HE I used years and years ago on a 351C. 62 degrees between advertised and duration @ .050" lift. It was actually designed to be that way for a good reason; it performed with no low end soft spot and a stock TC. But that was because the static CR was 10.3 to start with, and the overall durations were still low (254 advertised on intake), for a DCR just over 8; the PO is gonna be in the 6's with the stock 360 CR as pointed out. That small seeming cam revved well into the 6k range, with 6500 RPM as the "best upshift" RPM (good lift with 1.73 ratio rockers), plus the good breathing heads, intake, headers, etc. So the idea that a small duration cam excessively chokes flow is not always the case; it is all in the combo.
All built on a budget at 22 years of age, on a sailor's paltry pay in 1975 pay, heads ported by me, etc. So the comment that you need to spend a ton of money to build a combo like AJ describes is nonsense; one can always trade time for money to some extent. Just use $1000-1500 as a budget instead $500 and a lot of possibilities open up; it'll still take some sweat at that price range.
H405P is a great suggestion and would be a nice improvement.
However, Shamrock, if it's not in the cards, you'll still put your tires up in smoke. Just remember to get your initial timing up (should be somewhere between 14-21*, and total timing will end up at least 36, or more). Engines with low compression can handle a little more timing.
I ran my best E.T. with my LC 318 at 42* total timing.
However, Shamrock, if it's not in the cards, you'll still put your tires up in smoke. Just remember to get your initial timing up (should be somewhere between 14-21*, and total timing will end up at least 36, or more). Engines with low compression can handle a little more timing.
I ran my best E.T. with my LC 318 at 42* total timing.
- One last point, you can create all the bottom end torque you want, but it's useless unless you are going to buy some drag radials and sure grip. spinning ain't winning
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