Broke my water pump bolt. Now what? (Update - broken bolt is out)

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Mike is spot on... Quit finding reasons not to do it and just fix the damn thing... Stuff don't fix itself, trust me, I've made a living fixing stuff, never once has wishing worked.. Excuses don't work.. Waiting for stuff to fix itself doesn't work... In my world that car would be running... Why?? Cause I don't make excuses, I make it happen..... Ask anyone who knows me... The O/P needs to find a way... I don't know anyone who can't borrow or rent a truck...
 
RustyRatRod said:
Naw. It's in the block. Where the timing cover bolts to the block. Gosh Mike, it's explained thoroughly with a picture in the first post. He's said he has no way to haul it. No reason to beat the guy up. He's trying the best he can.
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Well after you've after you've given Mike crap twice that it's where the timing cover bolts to the block.. You might want to go take a refresher yourself... It's a water pump bolt & water pump bolts tend to rust a lot more then timing cover bolts...
 
1WildRT said:
Well after you've after you've given Mike crap twice that it's where the timing cover bolts to the block.. You might want to go take a refresher yourself... It's a water pump bolt & water pump bolts tend to rust a lot more then timing cover bolts...
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I didn't give him crap. But ok, my mistake. It's a water pump bolt. I saw the timing cover in the photo and kinda zoomed in on that. My bad. No need to beat the guy up though. He evidently has limited resources and doesn't have the mechanical skill of some, which is why he's coming here in the first place. He's a good member. No need to try to run him off beating him over the head with what he cannot do. He's doing the best he knows how.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I didn't give him crap. But ok, my mistake. It's a water pump bolt. I saw the timing cover in the photo and kinda zoomed in on that. My bad. No need to beat the guy up though. He evidently has limited resources and doesn't have the mechanical skill of some, which is why he's coming here in the first place. He's a good member. No need to try to run him off beating him over the head with what he cannot do. He's doing the best he knows how.
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While I agree to some extent I find it hard to believe no one in his world owns a truck or a welder... If I were closer I'd throw my little 110V Hobart in my truck & hook him up... There's gotta be someone in his group of acquaintances that can do this...

And after going back and seeing his location (Bloomington Mn) that's blue collar central... I was expecting some place more white collar...

Drilling a rusty bolt is only going to weaken it further... If your gonna drill, drill with the intent of collapsing the thread, that means drilling a perfectly centered hole, if it's off by .050 you've caused more harm than good...

The loctite plan is a joke, zero chance.... I've fixed a lot of broken bolts, free hand drilling is begging for trouble, If you are gonna try something like that bolt the water pump housing back on & use it as a guide.. Probably still gonna be a mess but he'll have a chance..

Welding a nut on wouldn't take five minutes & at the very least I've never had it make the situation worse... Sure can't say that about a man with a drill...
 
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Boy, this guy has made a mountain out of a mole hill.
4 pages, and it's still going on.
Hard to believe.
The weld on a nut is a tried and true method.
Oh but, i don't own a welder, i can't get it to a shop.
There has got to be a mobile welder service guy, wherever this guy lives, and pay him his labor rate to come over to your house.
There used to be a Mopar guy, that was here in the Sacramento area, that had a mobile welding service.
 
cruiser said:
Still working the problem. Heated it up again, more PB Blaster, cooled it, tried to turn with a vise grips. No luck - wouldn't budge. Have totally buggered up the threads on the shaft. Before doing this, tried to fit an extraction tool on the protruding part. Not enough length to make the connection. Next step - drilling it for a bolt extractor tool. Going out to buy left hand drill bits.
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Cruiser, left hand bits won't do anything at all for a bolt that is stuck that hard. From what you have said in the last 4 pages, there is NOTHING you are going to be able to do at hour home with what you have available. Let's be honest and think about your options.
1. Find a mobile welder who will come to your house. Have you looked yet? There are several here in Topeka.
2. Make some phone calls to some mechanics (smaller repair shops) in your area. You may very well find someone who will come to your house and remove it with the weld on a nut technique.
3. You have GOT to have a friend with a truck. Or you can rent one for a day. Then rent an engine hoist. Then use something for padding (old tires or something) and put the engine in the back of the truck and take it somewhere. You keep saying you have no way to get the engine to a shop, but, forgive me for being blunt, that is not true. You CAN rent or borrow a truck. You CAN rent or borrow an engine hoist.
It's time to figure out a way to either get the engine to a shop OR have someone come to you.
I have a good Miller welder. But if I didn't, I know several guys with welders who would be more than happy to bring it over and help me out. I also know a bunch of guys with trucks who would be glad to help. Do you really not know anyone with a truck, welder and/or an engine hoist?
@1WildRT, @RustyRatRod and @toolmanmike are right. It's time to assess the situation, formulate a plan and execute the plan!
 
If he was GOOD.....or really LUCKY, he could drill dead center all the way through and keep getting the hole bigger until it is RIGHT AT the original thread size and then reach in and pull what's left of the bolt out with needle nosed pliers like a spring. I'm not that good, but I've done it by accident once or twice. lol Even after forty plus years of working on cars, this is one of my weak spots. I've gotten lucky more times than I can count. I'm just really glad that I've learned through the years when to STOP before I booger something up so bad it cannot be fixed. I'm also thankful to have my friend Freddie five minutes down the road that is REALLY GOOD at this kinda thing. It really takes a lot of skill. I have some, but like Harry Callahan said, "A good man's gotta know his limitations" and I know mine. lol
 
Wow. I've drilled out dozens of broken bolts in my life. Is it good to be perfectly centered? Yes. Will the sky fall if you aren't? No. You have to keep the brain engaged when you do this. You don't try to drill out a 3/8 bolt with a 3/8 bit for a start. Start small and work your way up until you hit the minor diameter of the bolt, wherever that occurs, and collapse it. Frankly, I've had more trouble keeping the bit straight when drilling out a bolt than finding the center.
 
Finally, success. I drilled it out with successively larger size bits until I could get an extractor that I got at Harbor Freight in there and remove it. It was the rustiest bolt I've ever seen in an engine block, and it looked like the pump I removed was original to the car. So that bolt had been immersed in coolant since 1973. I think ten days of soaking it in PB Blaster (and many heat cycles with the torch) finally did the trick. RustyRatRod was correct about the bolt protruding into the water jacket, so when the new bolt goes in it'll be coated with anti-seize. Thanks again for all who weighed in with great suggestions. That's the best thing about this site - guys/gals coming together to share their knowledge. Here's a photo of my new pump that'll go in tomorrow after I paint it. Again, thanks for the many lessons learned!

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cruiser said:
Finally, success. I drilled it out with successively larger size bits until I could get an extractor that I got at Harbor Freight in there and remove it. It was the rustiest bolt I've ever seen in an engine block, and it looked like the pump I removed was original to the car. So that bolt had been immersed in coolant since 1973. I think ten days of soaking it in PB Blaster (and many heat cycles with the torch) finally did the trick. RustyRatRod was correct about the bolt protruding into the water jacket, so when the new bolt goes in it'll be coated with anti-seize. Thanks again for all who weighed in with great suggestions. That's the best thing about this site - guys/gals coming together to share their knowledge. Here's a photo of my new pump that'll go in tomorrow after I paint it. Again, thanks for the many lessons learned!

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Good you got it out and you are on your way to putting it back together.
 
toolmanmike said:
A lathe would be good but I believe the engine is on a stand.
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The intent would be to center drill a new bolt on a lathe then thread a long nut on to what was left of the water pump bolt. You then thread in the center drilled bolt to use as a guide in order to drill into the center of the broken bolt.
 
I'm glad to see you got it out. "Keep on sucin' 'til you succeeds" was the plan. Their is only a couple of things I would like to add here...
If/when I did chew a stub to hell with vise grips I could still grind that to flush with the surface and use the part, i.e. water pump, as a guide to create a center. That is followed with a #3 center drill, then a 3/16 bit then up the drill size until the very near the minor diameter of bolt threads. Next is a specially ground chisel behind what remains of the bolt to crack and curl it into the middle of the hole. Sometimes the hemostat thing us old hippies call a roach clip would back the remainder out.
So now I must consider that my chisel tool did damage the threads so I'm going to chase the threads. I'll need some chemical as sealant and protectant against water leak and future rust. I'm going to measure the hole depth and grind my replacement bolt so little to no threads protrude deep into the water. Any more length is just a waste of metal.
I've got some white colored product (from Permatex I think). Without looking at its ingredients, I suspect it has some magnesium in it and likely teflon/PTFE too. Many bolts in aircraft assemblies and other applications are coated with this. No seize, no leaks, no rust.
One more statement just for the record... At my 66 years old and lifetime mechanic, I have never owned a left-hand twist drill bit.
I did use a couple that belonged to the company. I recall only two instances when the left-hand twist did grab a very small bolt broken well beneath the surface. The bit grabbed the piece of bolt and backed it out just as its tip broke through the end of the bolt. Those were in Dobby heads built by Yamaha atop waterjet weaving machines.
 
cruiser said:
Finally, success. I drilled it out with successively larger size bits until I could get an extractor that I got at Harbor Freight in there and remove it. It was the rustiest bolt I've ever seen in an engine block, and it looked like the pump I removed was original to the car. So that bolt had been immersed in coolant since 1973. I think ten days of soaking it in PB Blaster (and many heat cycles with the torch) finally did the trick. RustyRatRod was correct about the bolt protruding into the water jacket, so when the new bolt goes in it'll be coated with anti-seize. Thanks again for all who weighed in with great suggestions. That's the best thing about this site - guys/gals coming together to share their knowledge. Here's a photo of my new pump that'll go in tomorrow after I paint it. Again, thanks for the many lessons learned!

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Just my personal opinion backed up by experience, but I would not use anti seize there. I would use RTV. It acts as both an anti seize and sealant. You need both and RTV does both. In fact, every single bolt that threads into the block whether the hole is blind of goes into water gets a small dab on all my stuff, with the sole exception of any ground wires. Living in the south, the humidity is thick in the air and bolts can rust just because they feel like it. Better to be safe than sorry. Glad you got it out. Good job! Now you can add a notch in your belt.
 
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