Camaro site debates mopar vs chevy

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yellowdartdave said:
You must remember 1 thing about Hemi HP ratings...........
Have you noticed that they always are rated at 425 hp@ 5200 rpm? No matter what year? At 5200 rpm they were just getting into their powerband.
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That sounds about right. from what I know about hemis vs. 440 six pack motors, the wedge would hang with the Hemi till around 100 mph then.........bye,bye 440.
 
SCREW EM! I have even a new Dodge 09 srt Challenger, car has hoards of people everywhere ya go, it is a luxury mans hot ron, NO it is not like an old A body which I own. But car hauls but in the 0-60, 1/4 and tops out around 190 if you have the guts. I have had it at 152mph in 5th and there is still 6yh.

Anyway even going to a car show the Ford and Chevy guys said the Moapr folks hit the mark for retro etc.

I am telling ya the new Camaro is OK glad another USA car was built etc.. But it looks import ish on the inside etc.

And many guys have ran them stk Vs stk. in a 1/4 the SRT will beat em given both cars have decent drivers.

12.90s stk at below 500' is about what they run stk, mine has been clocked 0-60 at a best of 4.24.

Well their loss I say we all know better.



It is like the last Motor trend, they take an SS Camaro, a GT roo and then compare to an R/T not an SRT.

what ever...

That is like comparing a Chysler NewYorker Broughm to a striped LTD.
 
Outsider said:
The Muncie is an adequate 4-speed.
It is certainly the GM/Chev Achilles heel. They were weak. The case itself has been redesigned at least twice that I know of. The last version... the "super case" is supposed to finally be OK. I don't know much about it 'cause I don't care anymore.
I hope they finally VENTED the damn thing. The first thing any serious GM 4-speed guy had to do was drill 2 holes in the mainshaft bearing support down half the thickness of the plates height. Then another was drilled horizontally across them. Without this the pressure can get so high in the case it forces lube out the front bearing retainer.
The shifter arm bosses on the side cover were also a *****. The bosses need to be filed down or the shifter arms will rub and even bind.
The ridiculous "EARS" on the case to mount to the bell are horrible. I used to get Muncies for nearly nothing because the ears were snapped off by drawing the 4-speed to the bell with long bolts or threaded rod.
The oiling in the gears is fair and the oiling slots should be opened up with a die grinder.
I previously mentioned the poor...Mainshaft bearing support that is not part of the tailhousing.
The unbushed front case is just plain stupid. Stress on the cluster can start to work the counter gear shaft around until it is...out of round. This is when the cluster "corn cobs". Hahaha...I love that term.
The input shaft is too shallow in the cluster gear as well. GM 4-speed guys shim it backwards deeper into the cluster gear (.040-inch) with Rear pinion shims.
Blahblablablah
Geeeeez i can't remember all the stuff we used to do to Muncies to try to get them to run As well as an 18-spline A833 without any mods.


Burntorange70 got it right perfectly.... "There just "bashing the enemy". We do it all the time to them. Chevy's suck! LOL Just car guys being car guys is all."
I say good for them, I can take it.
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1wild&crazyguy said:
chevrolet = Garbage.


jmo
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Narrow minded people? Never heard any of this ****. If I had a penny for every hot GM product that went down the strip with a Muncie 4-speed I would be a rich man. Grew up in the 60's. The Muncie is one of the slickest transmissions to shift there is. Mopar transmissions took a **** to. Thats why they sold parts to fix them. If you will remember Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins held the national record in A/S with a 327 Nova and whipped the **** out of the street hemi. Don't get me wrong. I love mopars but don't be so narrow minded!!!!
 
djwhog said:
SCREW EM! I have even a new Dodge 09 srt Challenger, car has hoards of people everywhere ya go, it is a luxury mans hot ron, NO it is not like an old A body which I own. But car hauls but in the 0-60, 1/4 and tops out around 190 if you have the guts. I have had it at 152mph in 5th and there is still 6yh.

Anyway even going to a car show the Ford and Chevy guys said the Moapr folks hit the mark for retro etc.

I am telling ya the new Camaro is OK glad another USA car was built etc.. But it looks import ish on the inside etc.

And many guys have ran them stk Vs stk. in a 1/4 the SRT will beat em given both cars have decent drivers.

12.90s stk at below 500' is about what they run stk, mine has been clocked 0-60 at a best of 4.24.

Well their loss I say we all know better.



It is like the last Motor trend, they take an SS Camaro, a GT roo and then compare to an R/T not an SRT.

what ever...

That is like comparing a Chysler NewYorker Broughm to a striped LTD.
Click to expand...

The fastest 09 Challenger i've seen ran a 13.2 @ 103, & i watch 4 of them run in the last few months, just saw the new camaro run 12.2 @ 111, unless theres a faster challenger out there i haven't seen, show it to me, i will say this, after seeing the new camaro in person, i like the challenger better.
 
skybolt said:
Narrow minded people? Never heard any of this ****. If I had a penny for every hot GM product that went down the strip with a Muncie 4-speed I would be a rich man. Grew up in the 60's. The Muncie is one of the slickest transmissions to shift there is. Mopar transmissions took a **** to. Thats why they sold parts to fix them. If you will remember Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins held the national record in A/S with a 327 Nova and whipped the **** out of the street hemi. Don't get me wrong. I love mopars but don't be so narrow minded!!!!
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:-D, he's right.
 
A stock SS wont run a 12.2 Most run 13.3- 13.8 depends on AIR and driver.

When have so many guys even with stk R/Ts with 5.7s running low and I mean documented time slip posted 13.12s and one gu posted a 12.90, but I know he has a custome tune as well.

Anyway the point is that they are yupi cars for mainly yupi tools.


Regardless, the 64 Dart with the stroker 416 will destroy all of them in the 1/4.

But my 09 srt with the 6 spd does have a 3.92 posi, would impressive you for sure it halls balls for a 4000 car.

But it is the top end that is a monster, like I said 178 -185 stk is documented on the challenger. I oulled 152 in 5th and she was still pulling before I upshifted to 6th and coasted back dow.

And at 120 car feels like maybe 90-100, at 150 I swear I was only running maybe 125 ish. Car is smooth and they did a good job for a modern car.
But that SS stock will not do a 12.2, add a custom tune, some cat backs and cai yes maybe.. then I am sure with a good driver and better than stock tires. it to is a 4000 lb car, the 60' times suck on these big cars and they nead at least a set of drag radials to get moving...
 
djwhog said:
A stock SS wont run a 12.2 Most run 13.3- 13.8 depends on AIR and driver.

When have so many guys even with stk R/Ts with 5.7s running low and I mean documented time slip posted 13.12s and one gu posted a 12.90, but I know he has a custome tune as well.

Anyway the point is that they are yupi cars for mainly yupi tools.


Regardless, the 64 Dart with the stroker 416 will destroy all of them in the 1/4.

But my 09 srt with the 6 spd does have a 3.92 posi, would impressive you for sure it halls balls for a 4000 car.

But it is the top end that is a monster, like I said 178 -185 stk is documented on the challenger. I oulled 152 in 5th and she was still pulling before I upshifted to 6th and coasted back dow.

And at 120 car feels like maybe 90-100, at 150 I swear I was only running maybe 125 ish. Car is smooth and they did a good job for a modern car.
But that SS stock will not do a 12.2, add a custom tune, some cat backs and cai yes maybe.. then I am sure with a good driver and better than stock tires. it to is a 4000 lb car, the 60' times suck on these big cars and they nead at least a set of drag radials to get moving...
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All i know is he still had the window sticker on it, & only had it a few days. I guess you really can't rely on what is claimed.
 
Fastest road test i could find put the SS at 13 flat with 111mph.

Clearly any claim of a 12.2 (window sticker or not) was not something done by an unmodified car.


As for the test between the Camaro SS, Mustang GT and Challenger R/T….

Camaro SS base price $30,245

Mustang GT base price $27,995

Challenger R/T base price $30,945


This is why the SRT8 Challenger (at over $40,000) was not tested in that comparison.
 
Cudapete said:
You cant go to a cruise night here with out row after row of red with white stripes chevelles and camaros how do they know which one is theres when its time to leave and its dark?? I like all makes and models but never owned anything but a mopar. defineatly the most diverse IMO with colors,engineand body style choices and by far the coolest people to deal with.
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HAHA, thats funny, I always wondered this too.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Fastest road test i could find put the SS at 13 flat with 111mph.
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Do you realize that a 111 MPH is damn near 12 flat, so it is possible to get low 12s with this MPH, he did start off running 13s @ 105, then a mid 12 @ 107 or 108, then the final 111 mph, so its possible, the fastest i've seen the stock challenger run was a 103.

How fast are the SRT8 challengers in stock form?
 
I'm just posting numbers from nationally know sources found on the net.

I have been all over the net and the only 2010 Camaro I could find running in the 12s was modified with a cold air intake and a tune…. It ran a 12.58 @ 111.26.


I could not find even 1 running 12s in pure stock form.
 
skybolt said:
Narrow minded people? Never heard any of this ****. If I had a penny for every hot GM product that went down the strip with a Muncie 4-speed I would be a rich man. Grew up in the 60's. The Muncie is one of the slickest transmissions to shift there is. Mopar transmissions took a **** to. Thats why they sold parts to fix them. If you will remember Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins held the national record in A/S with a 327 Nova and whipped the **** out of the street hemi. Don't get me wrong. I love mopars but don't be so narrow minded!!!!
Click to expand...

GM wouldn't even use the Muncie 3-speed until '70. They bought Top loader 3-speeds from Dearborn until they cost too much. Those HD 3-speeds were miles better than the Muncie. I'm not suprised you "never heard any of this ****". I grew up street racing for beer money in the '70s. I put in my time and money on those Muncie 4-speeds, and IMO they are weak. That is not narrow minded, it is the truth. I moved on... just like I am about to do with this "conversation".
Also...I seem to remember Jenkins got his *** handed to him at the Nationals in that very A/S car by Stahls street Hemi.
 
Personally I would rather listen to the rantings of the camaro crowd than the ignorant crap that comes from the honda ricer boys.At least some of the chevy guys seem to know something of how a ''car''works.If youve ever talked to a rice boy than you would know that stickers,rims,wings and fart cannons make it a hot rod.The list of excuses they use to justify why ''old school cars'' are inferior is hilarious.Sure the little ****'s have the advantage of power to weight,and some of those freaken cars are fast,but old school cars will always be classier and more respected wether they are ford chevy or mopar
 
Outsider said:
GM wouldn't even use the Muncie 3-speed until '70. They bought Top loader 3-speeds from Dearborn until they cost too much. Those HD 3-speeds were miles better than the Muncie. I'm not suprised you "never heard any of this ****". I grew up street racing for beer money in the '70s. I put in my time and money on those Muncie 4-speeds, and IMO they are weak. That is not narrow minded, it is the truth. I moved on... just like I am about to do with this "conversation".
Also...I seem to remember Jenkins got his *** handed to him at the Nationals in that very A/S car by Stahls street Hemi.
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Now your talking top loader 3-speeds? Your just f---ing with us right? Jesus!
What ever your wave length is I'm not on it and don't want to be. Jesus!! Your user name fits the bill!!!!
 
camaro site debates mopar vs chevy and mopar site debates chevy vs mopar and also ford 3speeds, ok i will have a look in the next tread for something more surprising ;)
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
I'm just posting numbers from nationally know sources found on the net.

I have been all over the net and the only 2010 Camaro I could find running in the 12s was modified with a cold air intake and a tune…. It ran a 12.58 @ 111.26.


I could not find even 1 running 12s in pure stock form.
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Still, thats pretty damn quick for even cold air & tune with a car pushing 4000 lbs., & even if it ran 12.58 best, thats with that driver, because 111 mph is easy low 12s, so i'm sure there was more in it, im not trying to trash on the challenger in any way, but the camaro does hall, just don't really care for its looks, the challenger looks much better.
 
Outsider said:
GM wouldn't even use the Muncie 3-speed until '70. They bought Top loader 3-speeds from Dearborn until they cost too much. Those HD 3-speeds were miles better than the Muncie. I'm not suprised you "never heard any of this ****". I grew up street racing for beer money in the '70s. I put in my time and money on those Muncie 4-speeds, and IMO they are weak. That is not narrow minded, it is the truth. I moved on... just like I am about to do with this "conversation".
Also...I seem to remember Jenkins got his *** handed to him at the Nationals in that very A/S car by Stahls street Hemi.
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Saginaw made the full synchro three speed from '66 thru '69. I think Muncie took over after that. It was standard equipment in SB Corvettes.

George
 
skybolt said:
Now your talking top loader 3-speeds? Your just f---ing with us right? Jesus!
What ever your wave length is I'm not on it and don't want to be. Jesus!! Your user name fits the bill!!!!
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Well there you go.... I guess I'll school you. Starting in 1965, the Muncie 3-speed was determined not heavy duty enough for the GTO. An additional 3-speed was offered. A FORD built, Dearborn top loader 3-speed was offered. it was code S, RPO 785, assembly part number 9785094. in 1968 and 1969 the FORD built Dearborn 3-speed was standard equipment in GTO, and Firebird, and it was code DB. (My first car was a code DB 3-speed '68 GTO) it was replacement part number 9793425. The FORD built Dearborn 3-speed had nearly straight cut gears, was a toploader, and was superior in my opinion to even the M-21 Muncie 4-speed.
 
George R said:
Saginaw made the full synchro three speed from '66 thru '69. I think Muncie took over after that. It was standard equipment in SB Corvettes.

George
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George, The heavy duty 3-speed offered in GM cars was built by Ford. Perhaps the Sag was a Chevy thing.
 
Chevy; cuz even god needs a laugh now and then.

BTW, don't be dissin Camaros; them mullet wearin guys gotta drive too!
 
saginaw was a chevy thing, though pontiac and ford [63-67 ex od] used a type 8 trans.

65-67 chevro w/396[puke] used a type 13 full syncro trans, ford????
the other cheffys had non sync 3 spd same yrs
 
Outsider said:
George, The heavy duty 3-speed offered in GM cars was built by Ford. Perhaps the Sag was a Chevy thing.
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The guys that really know anything about muncies know what you are talking about. I seen more than one muncie with the ears broke off. I wouldn't worry about responding to some of these people. The guy has one these late model ugly corvette as his avatar on a mopar site.
 
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