Camshaft instal inquiry

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AJ/FormS said:
what's in it now?
and how often are you running up to shift-rpm?
If 95% of your driving is below 4000 rpm, why install a 5500/6000rpm cam, jus asking? I mean we all do it to some extent, but why.
If the current combo spins the tires all the way thru first gear, a bigger cam is not gonna benefit your combo in first gear.
If the current gears do not let your engine wind up into the power zone,in second gear, then a bigger cam with no other changes will just be slower.
If the current combo spins the tires, thru two gears already, then what possible advantage would you get from a bigger cam?
If your 60ft is in the 2.4 or slower zone, then you can make up more time here than with more power at 5000rpm which depending on your gears, you might never get to in second gear, below the speed limit.
For example;
3.55s with a 904 and 27s is 4000rpm@ 60mph@ @5% slip. So having 15 hp more at 5000, helps you nothing. Whereas 15 ft pounds at stall could.
IMO, you should be thinking more about maxing out your power,and gears, in the area you spend the most time.
For example, 30 mph.
By 30, if you have worked your chassis up to speed, and got the spinning under control, then,at 30, you want to be on the fat part of the power curve when the trans kicks down into first. But you can't be, there is no combination of gears in the Mopar catalog that can get you there.
So second best is to stall somewhere on the fat part or close to it on the rising side. So if this occurs at 2400, then you want a 2400 stall . But if this occurs at 3000, then 3000; if 3500 then 3500 and so on.
Lets just say your engine, with it's current cam, makes 200ft lbs of torque at 2400, then the simple math is 200x2.45=490 out the trans. but if it makes 240 at 2800, that would be 588 out the trans. And if it makes 280@3200, then 686 out the trans. 686 is 40% greater than 490. You cannot match this increase with one or two cam sizes. In fact, each bigger same type cam , with no other changes, is most likely to subtract bottom end torque to get that topend power.
Your next tool is gears, to put the power at the rpm you need it to be.
Going back to 30 mph, and say a 3200 stall TC, you might want to be at 3200 at that 30 mph, at KD into first.And the math; drumroll, comes to 3.23s. And 3.23s will get you 60=3700 in second gear. So if you have a cam that powerpeaks at 5000 what good is that gonna do you? 3700 is barely on the torque peak. A bigger cam will just slow you down.

So, you need a compromise... or a bigger engine with inherently more midrange power.
The compromise might be 4.30s. Now the rpm at 60 in second gear is 4900@5% slip, and 30 is 4140 in first. Hey that's looking pretty good. But now, you have a different problem; namely way too much Torque Multiplication in first gear at zero mph. So that 3200 is not helping you anymore.

Lets go back and take the engine torque all the way to the road.
With the 2400TC we had 490 out the trans which with 3.23s is 1583 to the road. With the 3200TC it was 686, so with 3.23 would be 2216.
Ok so now, with the 3200TC and 4.30s, this is 686x4.30=2950! easily 800 more than you need. So lets go back to the 2400. So then 490x4.30=2107 just enough to squawk fat street tires, maybe spin them up under the right circumstances.
So we come to another compromise.
Lets go get that 2800. This was 240ftlbsx 2.45 first gear x4.30 rear gear, so 2528 to the road, and there ya go.That will be a tire-fryer.
Ok so far, we are at 4.30s and a 2800TC, for 240ftlbs at 2800 torque.
But we're not done yet.
Firstly; the 240 footpounds I'm talking about, is an arbitrary number I assigned to your engine. You could have more or less depending on your combo.
Secondly; Remember I said, in the beginning, simple math. The TC is More than just a fluid coupling. It is also a Torque Convertor. It has the ability to multiply the engine torque coming into it to a higher value, before it sends it out the back. This TM (Torque Multiplication) is greatest at zero mph, and rapidly diminishes as the vehicle moves forward. I have seen TM numbers as high as 1.8 . Typically, by top-speed, the number may have diminished to 1.1 or less.

So lets stick with the 200/240/280 numbers, but lets install some TC TM.
Beginning with the 2800 which previously stood at 2528ft lbs to the road. Lets add a 1.8 factor at zero mph. And I get an instantaneous 4550 ftlbs to the road, obviously far in excess of what is needed to break the tires loose. But like said, this ratio rapidly diminishes. By 60 ft out, it might be down to 1.3, IDK. But at 60 ft out, your tires are still smoking so it really doesn't matter what it is.
Furthermore, with 4.30s, your no-spin rpm at 30 mph is easily 4100 or more, so by this time, you don't care about stall.
Furthermore, kicking down into 1.45 second to pass a car at say 58mph, the rpm might rise to 4700, so again, stall is irrelevant.......... That means, the only time stall is relevant, is at zero mph, and as we have seen 4550 is crazy, so lets put the 2400 back in,lol. This TC was 200 crank x2.45 x4.30 x1.8=3790 at zero mph, still far in excess of what you need to launch with.
To recap; now we are at 200ftlbs at 2400, a 2400Tc, and 4.30s At 30 mph KD, the rpm will rise to 4100 and you are G-O-N-E, in all likelihood smoking the tires at WOT.
Ok, so what is 200 ftlbs at 2400. Well criminy a smoggerteen can do that.

So, remind me, what was the purpose of the 4.30s again? That's right, to maximize power at 60 mph, to minimize the time to get there. If you don't care if yur car is a lil slower, then run less gear. But when you do, make sure your stall is high enough at the other end, to still get outta the gate in a manner that keeps you smiling.

Each bigger same type cam (~7*) will raise your power peak up about 200 rpm,at the expense of wanting nearly the same more stall, all other things remaining equal. A lot of the midrange is gonna be similar.
You can increase low-rpm torque, by trapping more mixture, or compressing it to a higher psi. In this way you can get back some or all the low-rpm torque, that the next bigger cam gives away. This only works in a narrow window, as too much pressure can rapidly drive the engine into detonation on pumpgas. Cranking cylinder Pressure at WOT, is a better measure of when to quit than Static compression ratio. Each bigger size cam ,with no other changes, will reduce you cranking pressure.
As to pressure, here is a guideline
105 is a pure dog no matter how many cubes you have.
115 still doggy, I've seen lawnmowers with more pressure.
135 is typical of a smoggerteen.And you probably know what that feels like.
145 is like a 360LA, or an early 318
155 is like an early 340,which could be up to maybe 165
165 is about the max you can run on pumpgass (R+M)/2,and iron heads, with an optimized chamber.YellowRose and at least one other member, are saying 170 can be done, but you better have your ducks all in a row.
175 is alloys only, generally.
185 is getting to the top of alloys, but some designs are still on 87E10.
195 is about the max for alloys on best gas.
These are numbers mostly accumulated from real world engines right here on FABO.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to read this all again...its a lot of information...
 
AJ/FormS said:
what's in it now?
and how often are you running up to shift-rpm?
If 95% of your driving is below 4000 rpm, why install a 5500/6000rpm cam, jus asking? I mean we all do it to some extent, but why.
If the current combo spins the tires all the way thru first gear, a bigger cam is not gonna benefit your combo in first gear.
If the current gears do not let your engine wind up into the power zone,in second gear, then a bigger cam with no other changes will just be slower.
If the current combo spins the tires, thru two gears, already, then what possible advantage would you get from a bigger cam?
If your 60ft is in the 2.4 or slower zone, then you can make up more time here than with more power at 5000rpm which depending on your gears, you might never get to in second gear, below the speed limit.
For example;
3.55s with a 904 and 27s is 4000rpm@ 60mph@ @5% slip. So having 15 hp more at 5000, helps you nothing. Whereas 15 ft pounds at stall could.
IMO, you should be thinking more about maxing out your power,and gears, in the area you spend the most time.
For example, 30 mph.
By 30, if you have worked your chassis up to speed, and got the spinning under control, then,at 30, you want to be on the fat part of the power curve when the trans kicks down into first. But you can't be, there is no combination of gears in the Mopar catalog that can get you there.
So second best is to stall somewhere on the fat part or close to it on the rising side. So if this occurs at 2400, then you want a 2400 stall . But if this occurs at 3000, then 3000; if 3500 then 3500 and so on.
Lets just say your engine, with it's current cam, makes 200ft lbs of torque at 2400, then the simple math is 200x2.45=490 out the trans. But if it makes 240 at 2800, that would be 588 out the trans. And if it makes 280@3200, then 686 out the trans. 686 is 40% greater than 490. You cannot match this increase with one or two cam sizes. In fact, each bigger same type cam , with no other changes, is most likely to subtract bottom end torque to get that topend power.
Your next tool is gears, to put the power at the rpm you need it to be.
Going back to 30 mph, and say a 3200 stall TC, you might want to be at 3200 at that 30 mph, at KD into first.And the math; drumroll, comes to 3.23s. And 3.23s will get you 60=3700 in second gear. So if you have a cam that powerpeaks at 5000 what good is that gonna do you? 3700 is barely on the torque peak. A bigger cam will just slow you down.

So, you need a compromise... or a bigger engine with inherently more midrange power.
The compromise might be 4.30s. Now the rpm at 60 in second gear is 4900@5% slip, and 30 is 4140 in first. Hey that's looking pretty good. But now, you have a different problem; namely way too much Torque Multiplication in first gear at zero mph. So that 3200 is not helping you anymore.

Lets go back and take the engine torque all the way to the road.
With the 2400TC we had 490 out the trans which with 3.23s is 1583 to the road. With the 3200TC it was 686, so with 3.23 would be 2216; just right.
Ok so now, with the 3200TC and 4.30s, this is 686x4.30=2950! easily 800 more than you need. So lets go back to the 2400. So then 490x4.30=2107 just enough to squawk fat street tires, maybe spin them up under the right circumstances.
So we come to another compromise.
Lets go get that 2800. This was 240ftlbsx 2.45 first gear x4.30 rear gear, so 2528 to the road, and there ya go.That will be a tire-fryer.
Ok so far, we are at 4.30s and a 2800TC, for 240ftlbs at 2800 torque.
But we're not done yet.
Firstly; the 240@2800 footpounds I'm talking about, is an arbitrary number I assigned to your engine. You could have more or less depending on your combo.
Secondly; Remember I said, in the beginning, simple math. The TC is More than just a fluid coupling. It is also a Torque Convertor. It has the ability to multiply the engine torque coming into it to a higher value, before it sends it out the back. This TM (Torque Multiplication) is greatest at zero mph, and rapidly diminishes as the vehicle moves forward. I have seen TM numbers as high as 1.8 . Typically, by top-speed, the number may have diminished to 1.05 or so.

So lets stick with the 200/240/280 numbers, but lets install some TC TM.
Beginning with the 2800 which previously stood at 2528ft lbs to the road. Lets add a 1.8 factor at zero mph. And I get an instantaneous 4550 ftlbs to the road!, obviously far in excess of what is needed to break the tires loose. But like said, this ratio rapidly diminishes. By 60 ft out, it might be down to 1.3, IDK. But at 60 ft out, your rpm is wherever you're holding the pedal at,and tires are still smoking, so it really doesn't matter what it is.
Furthermore, with 4.30s, your no-spin rpm at 30 mph is easily 4100 or more, so by this time, you don't care about stall.
Furthermore, kicking down into 1.45 second to pass a car at say 58mph, the rpm might rise to 4700, so again, stall is irrelevant.......... That means, the only time stall is relevant,for this combo, is at zero mph, and as we have seen 4550 is crazy large, so lets put the 2400 back in,lol. This TC was 200 crank x2.45 x4.30 x1.8=3790 at zero mph, still far in excess of what you need to launch with.
To recap; now we are at 200ftlbs at 2400, a 2400Tc, and 4.30s At 30 mph KD, the rpm will rise to 4100 and you are G-O-N-E, in all likelihood smoking the tires at WOT.
Ok, so what is 200 ftlbs at 2400. Well criminy a smoggerteen can do that.

So, remind me, what was the purpose of the 4.30s again? That's right, to maximize power at 60 mph, to minimize the time to get there. If you don't care if yur car is a lil slower, then run less gear. But when you do, make sure your stall is high enough at the other end, to still get outta the gate in a manner that keeps you smiling.

Each bigger same type cam (~7*) will raise your power peak up about 200 rpm,at the expense of wanting nearly the same more stall, all other things remaining equal. A lot of the midrange is gonna be similar.
You can increase low-rpm torque, by trapping more mixture, or compressing it to a higher psi. In this way you can get back some or all the low-rpm torque, that the next bigger cam gives away. This only works in a narrow window, as too much pressure can rapidly drive the engine into detonation on pumpgas. Cranking cylinder Pressure at WOT, is a better measure of when to quit than Static compression ratio. Each bigger size cam ,with no other changes, will reduce you cranking pressure.
As to pressure, here is a guideline
105 is a pure dog no matter how many cubes you have. Well, no matter how many normally aspirated cubes you can fit in your Duster,lol.
115 still doggy, I've seen lawnmowers with more pressure.
135 is typical of a smoggerteen.And you probably know what that feels like.
145 is like a 360LA, or an early 318
155 is like an early 340,which could be up to maybe 165 or a bit higher
165 is about the max you can run on pumpgass (R+M)/2,and iron heads, with an optimized chamber.YellowRose and at least one other member, are saying 170 can be done, but you better have your ducks all in a row.
175 is alloys only, generally.
185 is getting to the top of alloys, but some designs are still on 87E10. I like this; it makes my 367engine run with bigger less pressurized engines. And it spins 295 tires to any speed-limit in Manitoba... and beyond.
195 is about the max for alloys on best gas. I don't see a point in running this high on purpose with a street engine. I mean if your 273/318 fell together at that,lol, I wouldn't change it; at least not until I drove it.
These are numbers mostly accumulated from real world engines right here on FABO.
I personally have run 165/170 with iron,back in the days that we had real gas. And am currently running 180 with alloys, on 87E10, and I gotta tell ya; it is so much fun.
More pressure is better than more cam, because it increases torque throughout the entire rpm range; this is so obvious when you jump a smoggerteen up to even just 155psi.
Whereas the bigger cam trades away low-rpm pressure to get the higher rpm operating range; and it is that which makes the additional power. Consider
300 ftlbs at 5000 is 286 hp; while
300 at 5200 is 297hp; and
300 at 5400 is 309hp
So that comes to ~11 or 12 hp just in the rpm, assuming the support works keeps up.
Well, I better quit before Rumble jumps on me again. He says he likes me, but I better not push my luck. Shrink the page and maybe it won't look so long. lol. Nah it's still long. Merry Christmas,lol.
Click to expand...

So what in getting from this.

1. It's good to have usable power
2. Lots of power is good unless not usable
3. Install TC to help regain non-usable power from gear/cam/tires etc.
4. You're essay was like reading my physiology book... just kidding...
 
I'll start new cam thread and everyone can duke it out with my choice? Haha

Currently I have-
340 engine *internals unknown
904 trans internals unknown
RPM Air Gap 7576 intake
AVS2 650 carb
Hooker headers
2.5in straight exhaust w/ flowmaster 40s
8.75
3.23 gears
Sure Grip
Cylinder compression I'll get for you tonight

My plan was to install my 727 with unknown TC and flex plate. Tc measures roughly 13in across from tooth to tooth, and 5.5in roughly from center of tc to flex plate mounting holes and flex plate measures 11 1/8 from center of mounting holes

Currently spins tires in first gear... total is about 12-14 feet, but none in 2nd (just tested it 3x) :rofl:

20200301_144111.jpg


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20200301_142351.jpg


20200301_142357.jpg
 
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If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. LOL You could ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. Many will tell you the 5 or 10 degrees of cam duration difference will kill your car...

If you want a decent driver performance cam, the one you have is fine. It will give a little chop at idle with a nice tune up and run fine. In a decent set up it would be capable of high 12's low 13's at over 100 mph in the 1/4 If you want a bigger cam, then buy one.

The XE268 works well too. Been put in plenty of stock compression engines with stock torque converters for years. A lot driveability is in the idle tune up.


Watch out for the offset lug on the converter and flexplate... Line it up and make it before install so you aren't playing "why won't this bolt line up!" :)
 
crackedback said:
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. LOL You could ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. Many will tell you the 5 or 10 degrees of cam duration difference will kill your car...

If you want a decent driver performance cam, the one you have is fine. It will give a little chop at idle with a nice tune up and run fine. In a decent set up it would be capable of high 12's low 13's at over 100 mph in the 1/4 If you want a bigger cam, then buy one.

The XE268 works well too. Been put in plenty of stock compression engines with stock torque converters for years. A lot driveability is in the idle tune up.


Watch out for the offset lug on the converter and flexplate... Line it up and make it before install so you aren't playing "why won't this bolt line up!" :)
Click to expand...

I just want a nice idle chop, with good torque down low. I dont care about my 1/4 mile, I prefer my car to be streetable and sound good.

With my 14s and open the tires would spin off the stop no matter what. Now with my 15s, 3.23 and sure grip I only spin off the line if I go WOT but I catch very nicely when I catch.
 
Choosing a cam without knowing what you have, seems like a stab in the dark at best. You could be improving your car into a failure, without even knowing it. I'm going to assume the 340 has a pretty decent cam. At this point i'm thinking money could be better spent elsewhere., like in tuning
 
DentalDart said:
I just want a nice idle chop, with good torque down low. I dont care about my 1/4 mile, I prefer my car to be streetable and sound good.

With my 14s and open the tires would spin off the stop no matter what. Now with my 15s, 3.23 and sure grip I only spin off the line if I go WOT but I catch very nicely when I catch.
Click to expand...

Then stick with the cam you have. It's perfect for what you want. Stop trying your damndest to make this difficult. It's not.
 
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Just remember if you can't be with the one you love ....love the one you are with......
use the cam you got.....
 
Johnny Dart said:
Choosing a cam without knowing what you have, seems like a stab in the dark at best. You could be improving your car into a failure, without even knowing it. I'm going to assume the 340 has a pretty decent cam. At this point i'm thinking money could be better spent elsewhere., like in tuning
Click to expand...

I've never opened the engine besides to look at the X on my heads lol. Spend money for tuning? Like the carb? Isnt that already done when you pull it out of the box? :poke:

RustyRatRod said:
Then stick with the cam you have. It's perfect for what you want. Stop trying your damndest to make this difficult. It's not.
Click to expand...

I'm like a woman! It's especially hard when cams are like women on this site too. Some prefer Blondes and others prefer redheads:p :D

70aarcuda said:
Just remember if you can't be with the one you love ....love the one you are with......
use the cam you got.....
Click to expand...

Voice of reason:D
 
It's always time for a Transgo reprogramming kit- the big one
adjust to level 2

ay back I said run what you have
tune it
find out where you could use more power
run a compression check
post back
 
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Wyrmrider said:
It's always time for a Transgo reprogramming kit- the big one
adjust to level 2

ay back I said run what you have
tune it
find out where you could use more power
run a compression check
post back
Click to expand...

Agreed.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the old girl drink.
 
Wyrmrider said:
It's always time for a Transgo reprogramming kit- the big one
adjust to level 2

ay back I said run what you have
tune it
find out where you could use more power
run a compression check
post back
Click to expand...

Checked compression. The car was not to warm though, as I took about 3.5hrs between driving it and being able to check it.

20200301_204720.jpg
 
I was going to add
since you degreed in your cam so you KNOW where you are
if later you decide you need more low end advance the cam and see how you like it
rerun your compression test
get a new cam with shorter duration and a lot more lift
if you can give up some low end then retard the cam and see how that works
add some duration and lots more lift
if you like your rev range just add a lot more lift
and some compression and quench
268 comp is not going to help just make more noise
remember advertised durations are different between
340 cam (,008). summit,(.004)
and comp, lunati, howards , Jones(.006)
 
Do not under any circumstances install that "unknown" torque converter! Spend a few hundred bucks and get something good. You need 2500 rpm or better yet 3000 rpm stall, especially with a 340 and those 3.23s out back. With that "unknown" thing, you could be installing a slug that will kill all your present and future performance!
 
I'll echo others: spend your money on gears and converter first. Cam and intake and exhaust can all be 'right' and make good power, but the wrong TC will make you hate driving it. A mildly warmed over engine will feel 10x better with a better TC, whereas a stock TC with a huge cam and badass heads will still drive like a turd.

Definitely upgrade your transmission cooling too.

3.23-3.55 is about as big as I'd go for something that sees lots of street miles. I have 3.91s in my dart, and when I was in Vegas it was a chore to drive from Summerlin on down to my shop (which was near the Ikea). It wasn't awful, but with dronemasters (flowmaster 40s, came with the car) it would grate on the ears a bit. I was always glad to get to my exit, and that was the longest freeway drive I'd ever make with the car too..

Think of a modern high-stall converter like this: the name of the game is number of firing events you can pack into the amount of time you have to complete your task. Whatever that task is (fun, burning rubber, 1/4 mile, etc). The more firing events, the more work done by the engine, the more fun/speed/power you pack into that timeframe. If you have a low-stall 2000rpm converter, then switch to a higher stall 4000 rpm converter then you'll be getting almost 2x the number of firing events (it's not that simple, actually, but for the sake of discussion let's put that aside). That 2x number of firing events, happening at a rev-range that's already making more power means that you see a SIGNIFICANT return. The difference between similar cams 1-2 steps apart might be 15-40hp. Which you'll notice, but not enough for the wife to understand the investment. Swap the TC and she'll get it. She may not like it, but it will be a very obvious difference. Even a stocker with headers will start to feel mighty impressive with a performance converter. Modern ones are also much better at their job than old ones, and won't have the disadvantages many claim come with higher stall.

Because of the complexity and variables involved with a converter, don't buy one off the shelf or based on price. Call a couple places and give them a very in-depth idea of what you want and they'll deliver. Don't let them talk you into a race piece and if they stay fixated on race when you want to talk street - go to another source. Folks here can suggest good companies to deal with. Weigh your car and if at all possible try to get some idea of how much power/torque it makes (dyno run, back-road top-speed over a set distance, etc).

A good shift kit will ensure that the transmission does its thing when and how you want it to in order to keep you from trying to operate 'off peak'.
 
69_340_GTS said:
Do not under any circumstances install that "unknown" torque converter! Spend a few hundred bucks and get something good. You need 2500 rpm or better yet 3000 rpm stall, especially with a 340 and those 3.23s out back. With that "unknown" thing, you could be installing a slug that will kill all your present and future performance!
Click to expand...

Wasnt the stock on a 68 340 gts a 22-2400 stall? The Tc is filled right now with a bunch of bright red fluid lol. 3k rpm stall? That's high no? Or will it help with low end power?


Phreakish said:
I'll echo others: spend your money on gears and converter first. Cam and intake and exhaust can all be 'right' and make good power, but the wrong TC will make you hate driving it. A mildly warmed over engine will feel 10x better with a better TC, whereas a stock TC with a huge cam and badass heads will still drive like a turd.

Definitely upgrade your transmission cooling too.

3.23-3.55 is about as big as I'd go for something that sees lots of street miles. I have 3.91s in my dart, and when I was in Vegas it was a chore to drive from Summerlin on down to my shop (which was near the Ikea). It wasn't awful, but with dronemasters (flowmaster 40s, came with the car) it would grate on the ears a bit. I was always glad to get to my exit, and that was the longest freeway drive I'd ever make with the car too..

Think of a modern high-stall converter like this: the name of the game is number of firing events you can pack into the amount of time you have to complete your task. Whatever that task is (fun, burning rubber, 1/4 mile, etc). The more firing events, the more work done by the engine, the more fun/speed/power you pack into that timeframe. If you have a low-stall 2000rpm converter, then switch to a higher stall 4000 rpm converter then you'll be getting almost 2x the number of firing events (it's not that simple, actually, but for the sake of discussion let's put that aside). That 2x number of firing events, happening at a rev-range that's already making more power means that you see a SIGNIFICANT return. The difference between similar cams 1-2 steps apart might be 15-40hp. Which you'll notice, but not enough for the wife to understand the investment. Swap the TC and she'll get it. She may not like it, but it will be a very obvious difference. Even a stocker with headers will start to feel mighty impressive with a performance converter. Modern ones are also much better at their job than old ones, and won't have the disadvantages many claim come with higher stall.

Because of the complexity and variables involved with a converter, don't buy one off the shelf or based on price. Call a couple places and give them a very in-depth idea of what you want and they'll deliver. Don't let them talk you into a race piece and if they stay fixated on race when you want to talk street - go to another source. Folks here can suggest good companies to deal with. Weigh your car and if at all possible try to get some idea of how much power/torque it makes (dyno run, back-road top-speed over a set distance, etc).

A good shift kit will ensure that the transmission does its thing when and how you want it to in order to keep you from trying to operate 'off peak'.
Click to expand...

Smart guys here! Aren't custom /specific made TCs super expensive?

I just installed gears and sure grip. Have headers, exhaust and carb. Cams, lifters springs next, and maybe transmission at some point. Lol. Also have flow 40s I want to change them... pypes violators are nice so are the race bullets and welded ultra flows.

The car is a blast to drive now, I usually dont hammer on the pedal, but it has good acceleration right now. I was originally thinking a 2500 stall would be a good choice.
 
DentalDart said:
Smart guys here! Aren't custom /specific made TCs super expensive?
Click to expand...

I would say no. More than an off-the-shelf converter? Yes. But we're not talking shortblock money (unless you goof the install and balloon the converter or take out your thrust bearing).

The short version is: any quality converter is going to be assembled or setup by the maker anyway and that's half the cost. So the tweaks necessary are really what you're paying for over the top of a shelf converter (which will take a million tries for a newbie to get right, and no one's going to take a used TC back). It's not like a 1/1 build, so rather than $3-400 you're probably in for $800+. If you're not looking to be competitive at the local purse events, then you're probably going to stay pretty close to that $800 range from what I gather. Competitive setups can run a helluva lot more.

The big take-away is: don't pick one yourself from a catalog. Call up the experts and let them help, but help them by being very honest and give plenty of detail and all the data you can. If you don't have the info (like peak torque RPM), ask them 'what can I do to help fill in the blanks?' and let them give you some direction.

Even if the first try isn't perfect, it's usually not *too* expensive to rework a converter to get it 'right'. This also applies for down the road when you put together an 11:1 shortblock with some free flowing heads - just send the TC back for an update.
 
Phreakish said:
I would say no. More than an off-the-shelf converter? Yes. But we're not talking shortblock money (unless you goof the install and balloon the converter or take out your thrust bearing).

The short version is: any quality converter is going to be assembled or setup by the maker anyway and that's half the cost. So the tweaks necessary are really what you're paying for over the top of a shelf converter (which will take a million tries for a newbie to get right, and no one's going to take a used TC back). It's not like a 1/1 build, so rather than $3-400 you're probably in for $800+. If you're not looking to be competitive at the local purse events, then you're probably going to stay pretty close to that $800 range from what I gather. Competitive setups can run a helluva lot more.

The big take-away is: don't pick one yourself from a catalog. Call up the experts and let them help, but help them by being very honest and give plenty of detail and all the data you can. If you don't have the info (like peak torque RPM), ask them 'what can I do to help fill in the blanks?' and let them give you some direction.

Even if the first try isn't perfect, it's usually not *too* expensive to rework a converter to get it 'right'. This also applies for down the road when you put together an 11:1 shortblock with some free flowing heads - just send the TC back for an update.
Click to expand...

Lol 800 is more than all my installed parts combined :rofl: I definitely understand what everyone is saying though on the cam and TC and I'm see more now how every piece of the build intertwines to make the final product perfect.

I also just read a huge Aj posted in a different TC thread. I definitely need to read into them more before trying to see if I can sneak one into the garage without the wife noticing. :lol: 1 step at a time and my car will one day be without want/need more more parts.

But I'm going to order valve springs... and I think I'll need some gaskets for when doing the cam. I wonder if I should wait until MATS to start buying parts maybe there are sales there?
 
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