Chrysler starter spin down time

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Al Bundy

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Hi,I replaced the starter on my 70 Dart yesterday with a rebuilt factory Chrysler gear reduction unit. it had a Denso one on it previously that finally went out so I wanted an original Mopar unit to get that old Mopar sound back. The starter works fine,but I've noticed the spin down time seems like 4-5 seconds after you let off the key. Why do these spin so long?

Edit,for accuracy I used a stopwatch and the spin down time is 4.86 seconds...is that normal for these starters?
 
If you've never had one apart there is a lot of mass spinning inside that starter. Compare the size of the stator and armature housing with the denso. Once that thing spools up its moving pretty good rpm wise.
 
Nope,never had one apart before and this is my first mopar new enough to use the gear reduction starter. I see what you mean though,its obviously much larger. glad to know its normal. I love the sound of these Mopar starters and it works great and starts the car at the bump of the key,just wondered if the spin down time was normal as I was unfamiliar with it.
 
Does anyone have some photos of these starters taken apart? I'd like to see what all is in them now that my curiousity has been piqued. Also what is the factory correct number and date code for a 1970 Dart 225 Mopar starter?
 
Any factory Chrysler starter of the era has that.....Its a Chrysler trademark...Don't you know??
 
bbrroowwnn said:
Any factory Chrysler starter of the era has that.....Its a Chrysler trademark...Don't you know??
Click to expand...

I do,*now*! As I said in the first post the car had a denso unit on it when I bought it and I just changed it back to a factory mopar one yesterday so I was unfamiliar with its characteristics.
I am so used to the Denso unit I accidentally bumped the key to try and restart it before the longer spin down had finished...gotta be careful not to do that again! I imagine everyones done that at some time or other.

I am glad I put an original Chrysler unit back on it. such a cool sound.

Oh,yeah,nice bounce there! lol!
 
Al Bundy said:
Does anyone have some photos of these starters taken apart? I'd like to see what all is in them now that my curiousity has been piqued.
Click to expand...

Of course!!! It's known commonly as a "factory service manual" and you can download several over at MyMopar as well as a thread on here

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=244981

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Also in the above link, browse through the "Master Tech Service" library, the very top link there
 
Al Bundy said:
Hi,I replaced the starter on my 70 Dart yesterday with a rebuilt factory Chrysler gear reduction unit. it had a Denso one on it previously that finally went out so I wanted an original Mopar unit to get that old Mopar sound back. The starter works fine,but I've noticed the spin down time seems like 4-5 seconds after you let off the key. Why do these spin so long?

Edit,for accuracy I used a stopwatch and the spin down time is 4.86 seconds...is that normal for these starters?
Click to expand...

They should not spin long if rebuilt correctly. There is a fiber washer to be replaced, but cheap or ignorant rebuilders reuse the old one or leave it out. It acts as a brake.
 
66fs said:
They should not spin long if rebuilt correctly. There is a fiber washer to be replaced, but cheap or ignorant rebuilders reuse the old one or leave it out. It acts as a brake.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info.The reason I asked the question was because it surprised me how long it spun down. mine was supposedly completely "remanufactured",but it wouldn't surprise me if the rebuilders cut corners or are ignorant. the starters at the auto parts stores nowadays are rebuilt in mexico or china. (sad huh?) Everyone else here seems to think it is normal,so could you tell me exactly how long the spin down should last then? does 4.86 to 5 seconds seem like the washer is worn or left out?
 
I worked for a Chrysler dealership and we would rebuild them in down time. I don't remember how long they took to go silent. But I remember when they sounded like yours, we knew someone rebuilt it who didn't know all the specs or were cutting corners.
 
66fs said:
I worked for a Chrysler dealership and we would rebuild them in down time. I don't remember how long they took to go silent. But I remember when they sounded like yours, we knew someone rebuilt it who didn't know all the specs or were cutting corners.
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I appreciate your input. thanks for at least letting me know the spin down time on mine is excessive.I kind of felt that way at the onset,but wasn't sure,which brought me here.As someone who notices little details and likes to do things right (factory correct),I try and ask questions so I may learn. all I can say is that I wish there were more professionals like you out there. But I guess I can hardly expect factory spec work from people in China or Mexico being paid next to nothing to rebuild starters.
If I had an original factory correct Mopar starter on the car I would have simply taken it to a local rebuilder who was around when these were new because I know he would have done the job correctly. Unfortunately the previous owner of the car went the Denso route so I didn't have a factory Chrysler unit to have rebuilt and he didn't have any on the shelf.
Wonder if there would be any point in exchanging it for another since I have a lifetime warranty or if they are probably all this way. How hard would it be for me to get this friction washer and install it myself?
 
Kinda funny this thread pops up. i just picked up an 87 Dakota the other day with the 3.9 in it, and was really surprised it still had the old school mopar starter in it. Love the sound of the old school starters.
 
BadAss71 said:
Kinda funny this thread pops up. i just picked up an 87 Dakota the other day with the 3.9 in it, and was really surprised it still had the old school mopar starter in it. Love the sound of the old school starters.
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Im not 100% sure,but I believe 1987 was the last year Chrysler used the old style Mopar starter before switching the Nippondenso units. I agree,I love the old sound of these starters and they work just fine. I don't want an old car to sound like a new car. so,now the $64,000 question,how long does yours spin after you let off the key? Since only one person out of those who replied so far thinks 4-5 seconds is excessive it would seem I am not the only one with this issue.
 
Mine stops spinning around 1 to 2 seconds. Yours sounds excessive. The sound of those old starters are the sound of music to my ears
 
I called the parts store and they are getting another one from the warehouse,so it looks like I will be changing starters again tomorrow. Thankfully the slant six makes that a walk in the park. I will let you guys know how it comes out. hopefully they aren't all rebuilt that way.
 
It's a Chrysler trademark for sure.
Those starters have an overrunning clutch on them, to deal with engaging them with engine running.It's not a big deal, unless you did it every time for like 10 years.
Chrysler made those old starters in several flavors, and they are interchangeable. Be sure to get the six banger one.I believe it is rpm limited, by internal wiring.

The spin-down time is related to how fast it is spinning when you back-off the key. A high compression engine, or a cold engine might be spinning at a slower rpm than a tired or hot, slanty. Or if you fail to release the key in a timely manner. These are all factors.
 
Al Bundy said:
Im not 100% sure,but I believe 1987 was the last year Chrysler used the old style Mopar starter before switching the Nippondenso units. I agree,I love the old sound of these starters and they work just fine. I don't want an old car to sound like a new car. so,now the $64,000 question,how long does yours spin after you let off the key? Since only one person out of those who replied so far thinks 4-5 seconds is excessive it would seem I am not the only one with this issue.
Click to expand...

I'd say it stops within a second or two. Your starter sounds like a worn out unit to me. I have had several cars with the same thing, but I never thought of it as being an issue. It just added to the experience. It would always make me smile waiting for the starter to wind down before cranking on it again. That being said. You can't beat a hi torque mini starter when cranking up a high compression motor.
 
bbrroowwnn said:
Any factory Chrysler starter of the era has that.....Its a Chrysler trademark...Don't you know??
Click to expand...

Remember in the 70s/80s any time you heard a car start on a TV show, it always sounded like a Mopar? The foley artists just got lazy (or they just dug the cool sound)
 
For starters, I would like to say:

Wa-na, na, na, na, na, na, na....
 
64DartGTinAZ said:
Remember in the 70s/80s any time you heard a car start on a TV show, it always sounded like a Mopar? The foley artists just got lazy (or they just dug the cool sound)
Click to expand...

Yes,I seem to remember that in many of the Universal tv shows,like Rockford Files. I don't think Jim's car ever sounded like a Mopar though.
 
AJ/FormS said:
It's a Chrysler trademark for sure.
Those starters have an overrunning clutch on them, to deal with engaging them with engine running.It's not a big deal, unless you did it every time for like 10 years.
Chrysler made those old starters in several flavors, and they are interchangeable. Be sure to get the six banger one.I believe it is rpm limited, by internal wiring.

The spin-down time is related to how fast it is spinning when you back-off the key. A high compression engine, or a cold engine might be spinning at a slower rpm than a tired or hot, slanty. Or if you fail to release the key in a timely manner. These are all factors.
Click to expand...

Even at the slight bump of the key mine will spin down for 4-5 seconds. I went on youtube and found some videos of others starting their cars and indeed some do stop almost instantly when the key is let off.

check out these videos [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeH_RB9tjM"]Reduction gear starter on a 1st gen hemi - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxV570Fs3PU"]20-degree Slant Six cold start - YouTube[/ame]

As far as getting a starter specifically for the six,I have always heard they are non-specific and can be interchanged among the lot,but there was never a specific starter for the slant six only. How can I identifity the "six banger" one?

heres a video showing the short and large frame starters,he claims they are all interchangeable,and the large frame didn't come out until 1975 for use on the bigger v8s to combat heat related hard start issues. until then he says that Chrysler used the same starter for the slants and V8's.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRuIHTWZHw0"]Identifying Chrysler gear-reduction starters - YouTube[/ame]

in this video he tests them and they all seem to stop in seconds.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKsZvTDHij8"]Chrysler starter comparison - YouTube[/ame]
 
There's a friction washer inside the Chrysler starter that stops free spin. Replacing that friction washer in the starter ( 25 cent part ) is a fairly simple chore with a service manual as guide. Go at it blind and you'll have the entire starter apart which is unnecessary.
Seeing you stated reman'd starter... who knows ? Original spacing not corrected with shims or a friction washer of thicker material ? Used washer reinstalled ? Washer not found in there ?
 
Ok,I just swapped out the starter with another one. This one has a "professionally rebuilt by Autolite" sticker on it,where the other only had a "remanufactured in Mexico" label. The both act pretty much the same,but the autolite one seems slightly quieter on the spin down. so looks like they are all like this.
One thing I did notice is that the armature housing on this one has a small hole in it where the other didn't. Can any of the Mopar experts out there tell me what this hole is for and if this is supposed to be there? I would think they would want to keep any road dust and dirt from entering there.
I have attached a photo.
 

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