Clutch issues. Can't put gear in while engine running

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Sebastian

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Ok so I spend the day troubleshooting and the issue is the following:
I'm not able to put the car in any gear while the engine is running. When engine is off all gears go in fine.
Now I noticed when I push the clutch I can hear and feel touching at about 3/4 way in and it goes away if I keep pushing but I'm not able to put it in any gear then. Now I just noticed that just before that 3/4 way in the clutch is actually disengaging and I can put the gears in no problem and the wheels spin.
So I tried to adjust the fork and move the two nuts from all the way to the end of the rod further up.
Now to resolve the issue I'd have to move it up quite a bit and the clutch pedal won't come up all the way anymore.
Question is am I missing a spring or something? Or is the clutch not supposed to engage again if I keep pushing it in further after it disengages?
Or what else could it be?

Thanks a lot!
 
1....Did it ever work right?

2....Did this "just start happening" or have you recently rebuilt, replaced, etc components?

3....The release/ push further (confusing) should not happen. Sometimes, mis-adjusted linkage etc, you can push the TO in far enough that the PP fingers will hit the hub of the disc, causing noise.

++++++++++++++++++++

There are all kinds of things with stick / clutch setups..........

Something rusted, broke, bending. The tube can crack, allowing the levers to flex. Might never have been correct parts in the car. Bad PP. I once had a PP the disc had shredded bits of marterial, which wedged down between the rear of the PP and the cover, causing the PP to not release clean.

Pilot bushing / bearing trying to seize, lack of lube, or engine/ bell/ transmission misalignment. Of course the bell / transmission could simply be loose.

I once had the retainer sleeve on which the TO rides break loose from the rest of the retainer. I've seen these brazed back together. That does not always make a lot of noise, but it DOES play havoc with clutch / transmission operation.

There's other 'stuff'

The short answer is, pull it apart and inspect it, and put the clutch assy in a press so you can manipulate it. Or take it to a rebuild shop. Even the hick cowtown Spokamentro has a clutch rebuilder
 
Sebastian said:
Ok so I spend the day troubleshooting and the issue is the following:
I'm not able to put the car in any gear while the engine is running. When engine is off all gears go in fine.
Now I noticed when I push the clutch I can hear and feel touching at about 3/4 way in and it goes away if I keep pushing but I'm not able to put it in any gear then. Now I just noticed that just before that 3/4 way in the clutch is actually disengaging and I can put the gears in no problem and the wheels spin.
So I tried to adjust the fork and move the two nuts from all the way to the end of the rod further up.
Now to resolve the issue I'd have to move it up quite a bit and the clutch pedal won't come up all the way anymore.
Question is am I missing a spring or something? Or is the clutch not supposed to engage again if I keep pushing it in further after it disengages?
Or what else could it be?

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
hi, if you keep pushing pedal down and it won't let trans, go into gear, you have pushed fingers into the disc. how thick is your disc?? a friend of mine had same problem with his 64 dart, discovered, the disc was way too thick. the fingers are already too far down. limits travel and release. the disc was from brewers, it was .340 thick, standard disc is .305 thick. we ended up shimming the pressure plate, .050 to get everything correct. it was a mcloed pressure plate, B&B/long style. just food for thought!!!!
 
I took over this project from somebody else. Motor, Clutch and Tranny are new. I assume it never worked right.
It doesn't matter how I adjust the clutch the issue is always the same. I push the pedal and the clutch disengages, I am able to put it in gear and wheels spin. Then if I push the pedal in further I hear and feel something touching and the clutch engages again. Not able to put it in gear anymore except for reverse but it grinds horribly.

I don't think its the linkage. Sounds more like something was put together wrong and or is defective.

Now I never had to take the clutch out before. Does anybody have instructions for that job and or can explain me what to do step by step? Sorry I'm an absolute newbie and only have limited tools and jack stands. Hope I can do it myself with you guy's help!

Thanks a lot
 
You need to tear it apart. End of story. Check EVERYTHING

Check PILOT SHAFT TO ENGINE CLEARANCE. The shaft may be bottoming out in the bottom of the crank, if the crank is not fully machined

Check pilot bearing fit. This is not easy unless you have an inside mike. Examine the pilot shaft for blue, wear, etc, damage

Verify the pp operates as above. Take it to a clutch shop or put it in a press

Generally examine the condition of all parts. If you cannot verify the clutch, plan on replacing it.

MAKE CERTAIN the clutch disc is installed correctly. The "bulge" side with the springs exposed goes to the rear, to the transmission side.

after that, you can argue with things like "is it the correct bell" for the car, and "does it have" the correct Z bar ball and Z bar, linkage etc etc and fork.
 
Generally to pull it you:
1. Drain trans and pull drive shaft
2. Disconnect shifter and linkage and revise switch wire
3. Disconnect clutch linkage and speedo cable
4. Support trans and remove trans bolts to bell housing and drop cross member
5. Slowly pull trans out straight out the back of the bell housing, making sure that the weight of the trans does not 'torque' the trans input shaft in the clutch disc. A moderately strong guys can drop or install a trans lying underneath, but especially if you are new to this, a floor jack under the trans is the best with this size of trans. If you can borrow or rent a trans jack, that would be great, but I make do with a standard floor jack and just be careful to keep the trans balanced on it.
6. Remove inspection plate on the lower front of the bell housing, and then unbolt bell housing from engine and remove. The clutch lever and throw-out bearing comes out with it.
7. Remove the bolts holding the pressure plate from the flywheel, and it and the clutch disc will come off
With experience, this is an easy 1-2 hour job. (Me and 1 other guy once changed out a clutch on a rally car in 45 minutes!) Plan on 3 hours or so your first time to remove.

The re-install, it is the general reverse except that:
- You HAVE to accurately center the clutch disc with the crankshaft center just before tightening down the pressure plate bolts. There are clutch alignment tools for this.
- When reinserting the trans input shaft into the clutch and bellhousing, you HAVE to 100% to support the trans and not let the weight 'hang' off of the input shaft in the clutch splines; this will bend the clutch center and ruin the clutch disc.
 
Use a jack fer krissakes. These gearboxes are HEAVY

I used to put the box into reverse and any forward gear at the same time when installing. This locks the input shaft so you can wiggle the case and get the splines aligned into the disc
 
Your issue is failure of the clutch to disengage, nothing more. Before you start ripping everything apart you need to check out the linkage thoroughly. Are the plastic bearings in the Z-bar still there? Is the fork pushrod incorrect (too short)? Take off the inspection cover & have someone push in the clutch after any changes, you should see it disengage, a feeler gauge of say 0.025" should easily fit in between the disc & flywheel. The disc should also move by hand in neutral. If the linkage is all good then you have some sort of disc problem, it may be warped, at that point you will need to remove the clutch. It could also be an incorrect or damaged pressure plate.
 
So I took the transmission out and the Z bar. Didn't get to the bell housing yet.
What I found that the Z bar looks bend/warped. Should be straight correct? Also the one plastic bearing looks f..... As well.
Could that be the whole problem?
At that point I might as well take the clutch out too.

image.jpeg
 
Just a thought right now the Z bar might be bend because there's pretty much no space between the starter and the headers? Anybody have the same issue?
 
That's a pretty screwed up Z-bar & I can't tell what the POS is hanging off the ball stud. Go to Brewer's site & find the correct parts. If you have some special header arrangement call them & see what they say. Put the tranny back in & solve your linkage issue, see thread 9.
 
So I just took a closer look at the clutch and it's a PHT??? Never heard of that company. What is concerning me is one of the springs sticks out?! That can't be good

image.jpeg
 
The throw out bearing seems alright. It's not as smooth as others bearings I had in my hand but then idk if that is necessary?

image.jpeg
 
I'll get a new clutch and replace everything. Not what I was hoping for but oh well
 
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Sebastian said:
So I just took a closer look at the clutch and it's a PHT??? Never heard of that company. What is concerning me is one of the springs sticks out?! That can't be good

View attachment 1714935136
Click to expand...
looking at the picture, one of fingers has hit spring, also bushing farther in is not right . looks like it fell out .. while your at it, measure the thickness of old disc, and new disc. normal disc , is .305 thick. if it's thicker, you will have same problems . I been down this road before.
 
Yep, that is the conclusion... a finger hit that spring. I will say this: The OP is doing a good job of looking at all aspects of this, and is bound to get this sorted out. That Z-bar bushing is.... um, interesting!

I found some info on the PP: it appears that the PHT C1647 pressure plate was from China, sold though Autozone. Nothing worth keeping IMHO....
Flywheel thickness 360 V8=clutch issue?

Is that the pilot bushing? Looks too big buuut....time for the clutch to come out!
 
Thanks for all the help guys!
Yes that pilot bushing is just lose in there.... At least I'm finding stuff that explains my issue and I'm glad I opened it up. I didn't get a chance yet to pull the clutch but hopefully tomorrow I can give an update!
 
And get a newt TO bearing too; you mentioned some roughness.... they should be silky smooth. I have had new ones with a bit of roughness and did not use them just in case they were going to go bad fast.
 
If I could find the eating popcorn emoticon I would put it up.
Just curious as to the problem for future reference.
 
I got lazy and twisted my Z-bar lever like that, to get it to go around my TTIs. That was about year 2002?. It has worked fine since then and has over 100,000 miles on it.
 
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