Clutch replacement/Rear main seal

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tbr1806

tbr1806

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I'm new here and I have recently picked up a 74 duster. After getting it home and playing around with it a bit the clutch started slipping so I start doing some investigating. It appears the rear main seal went:banghead: (I'm not surprised as it was in storage for 12 years and is a 40 year old car). I called up a local shop yesterday and they said I was looking at 12-15 hours of labor for the repair and the dollar signs started adding up in my head.

Now, I can get this done with just the cost of parts (and borrowing or renting an engine hoist) my self and it will be probably a quarter of what the shop will charge me and it will give me some good quality time with my new project. I would also like to paint the engine bay while the engine is out so this is a huge plus as well. While I am no stranger to mechanics and have always done my own work, I have never pulled an engine and replaced a clutch or rear main seal.

I'm hoping to get a little more insight on this project from people who have possibly done it them self. Also, do you guys have any recommendations on manuals I can get to help me with the project? I looked up a haynes manual for the car but it is very "generic" and does something like "plymouth cars 72'-89'" so I don't see it being all that much help to me.

Thanks in advance.

ETA: I have a /6 engine with a 3 speed transmission.
 
If you are hoisting the engine out to do this, it will be easier, especially for the first time, but it can be done in-car. If you rent the hoist and pull it, then also see if you can rent an engine stand and put the motor on that, rather than trying to work on the engine hanging on the hoist. In that way, you can flip it over and work most easily on the rear seal and get the pan gaskets back in place. Plan on doing the front seal at the same time. And the pilot bushing in the rear of the crank.

You should be able to find a factory service manual online.

Search for the threads on here on how to support the engine from the hoist. Keep your hands, feet, and self from under the engine when supported. Get some help to remove the hood; that will make you life a lot easier for the first time doing this. Drain the trans, engine oil and coolant 1st; there is a plug in the back lower edge of the block on the passenger side to remove to drain the coolant from the block. Pull the radiator. Soak the 2 exhaust manifold to donwpipe bolts with rust penetrant for 1-2 days ahead of time.

Use the clutch alignment tool carefully and held perfectly straight when reassembling the clutch so that the trannie input shaft will slip in properly and easily when re-mating the engine and trans. While I prefer to remove the engine and leave the trans in the car, removing the trans with the engine will make life easier if you don't get the clutch aligned just right the first time.
 
Leave the engine in the car and pull the transmission. You need to do this for the clutch anyway. You can also pull the oil pan with the engine in the chassis as well.
 
66fs said:
Leave the engine in the car and pull the transmission. You need to do this for the clutch anyway. You can also pull the oil pan with the engine in the chassis as well.
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I was thinking of going this way but I have heard getting the oil pan sealed properly inside of the car is a PITA. plus pulling the engine will allow me to clean up the engine bay and paint the firewall.





TrailBeast said:
12-15 hours. LOL
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That's what I did when he told me that, and he quoted me $200-300 just for the clutch kit! I told him he was off his rocker. All of the parts that I need can be had for less than $250 including the seals and gaskets.
 
I am thinking about buying a cheap harbor freight engine hoist, as I will (hopefully) not be pulling the engine on a regular basis, and my buddy offered to buy it off me after I'm done with it for a project he has going. As far as an engine stand goes where is the best place to rent one from? I am thinking about taking my time on this so it probably won't be a single weekend project for me. A 1 ton hoist should be plenty strong enough for a slant 6 right?
 
tbr1806 said:
I was thinking of going this way but I have heard getting the oil pan sealed properly inside of the car is a PITA. plus pulling the engine will allow me to clean up the engine bay and paint the firewall.







That's what I did when he told me that, and he quoted me $200-300 just for the clutch kit! I told him he was off his rocker. All of the parts that I need can be had for less than $250 including the seals and gaskets.
Click to expand...

I did a rear main in my gravel drive on a 454 in a motorhome in less time than that.
15 foot driveline with center carrier, transmission and cross members, flex plate, jack up the engine and pull the oil pump and pan and replace the main seal.

Then all back together and using nothing but hand tools. (uphill both ways)
Oh wait, different story. :D
 
tbr1806 said:
I am thinking about buying a cheap harbor freight engine hoist, as I will (hopefully) not be pulling the engine on a regular basis, and my buddy offered to buy it off me after I'm done with it for a project he has going. As far as an engine stand goes where is the best place to rent one from? I am thinking about taking my time on this so it probably won't be a single weekend project for me. A 1 ton hoist should be plenty strong enough for a slant 6 right?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan but you may have to do a little structural reinforcement on a cheap stand just to feel safe.
1 ton on the hoist is way plenty. (you could lift 6 of those motors with that)
 
tbr1806 said:
I am thinking about buying a cheap harbor freight engine hoist, as I will (hopefully) not be pulling the engine on a regular basis, and my buddy offered to buy it off me after I'm done with it for a project he has going. As far as an engine stand goes where is the best place to rent one from? I am thinking about taking my time on this so it probably won't be a single weekend project for me. A 1 ton hoist should be plenty strong enough for a slant 6 right?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, you would be better off renting the engine hoist and buying the engine stand. Look on Craigslist for deals. One ton is OK but the rating goes down as the boom is extended. A slanty is probably around 550 lbs. You can remove the engine and trans together but it is LONG and awkward. If I had to do it over again I would remove the trans first. When everything is ready to go back in, install and align the clutch and bellhousing while it is hanging from the hoist. Then you would put the trans back after the engine is in.

If you are planning on painting the engine bay it will take FAR longer than you think to do it properly. Otherwise, you might be renting an engine stand for 6 months. :)

I'm going through that right now. Just put the top coat on Sunday. Hopefully you are going to repaint the engine bay the same color as the body. Nothing says I'm a converted Chevy guy like a black engine compartment in a Mopar. O:)
 
KosmicKuda said:
In my opinion, you would be better off renting the engine hoist and buying the engine stand. Look on Craigslist for deals. One ton is OK but the rating goes down as the boom is extended. A slanty is probably around 550 lbs. You can remove the engine and trans together but it is LONG and awkward. If I had to do it over again I would remove the trans first. When everything is ready to go back in, install and align the clutch and bellhousing while it is hanging from the hoist. Then you would put the trans back after the engine is in.

If you are planning on painting the engine bay it will take FAR longer than you think to do it properly. Otherwise, you might be renting an engine stand for 6 months. :)

I'm going through that right now. Just put the top coat on Sunday. Hopefully you are going to repaint the engine bay the same color as the body. Nothing says I'm a converted Chevy guy like a black engine compartment in a Mopar. O:)
Click to expand...

I thought renting a hoist and buying a stand was that was what he said he was thinking.

But I were wrong. :D

Yep, rent the hoist and buy the stand.
 
KosmicKuda said:
In my opinion, you would be better off renting the engine hoist and buying the engine stand. Look on Craigslist for deals. One ton is OK but the rating goes down as the boom is extended. A slanty is probably around 550 lbs. You can remove the engine and trans together but it is LONG and awkward. If I had to do it over again I would remove the trans first. When everything is ready to go back in, install and align the clutch and bellhousing while it is hanging from the hoist. Then you would put the trans back after the engine is in.

If you are planning on painting the engine bay it will take FAR longer than you think to do it properly. Otherwise, you might be renting an engine stand for 6 months. :)

I'm going through that right now. Just put the top coat on Sunday. Hopefully you are going to repaint the engine bay the same color as the body. Nothing says I'm a converted Chevy guy like a black engine compartment in a Mopar. O:)
Click to expand...

I'm going to be priming the whole car black at some point to stop future surface rust, so the engine bay will be black until the body work is complete#-o. Then when I have the money to get a real paint job the engine bay will get what ever color the body does.
 
Just some thoughts on your original post..

A leaky rear main seal isn't likely to cause a clutch failure,, so treat these as seperate issues..

If the engine is really wet with oil,, it would be wise to find the sources of the leak before pulling the engine,, it may be something as simple as the valve cover, oil pressure sender, fuel pump gasket,, etc.. The fan and gravity send all oil to the back, and lowest point of the engine, and a lotta rear main seals get changed ,, only to have the leak continue.. So clean the begeebees outta the engine with "brakeclean",, to track down what's leaking..

I realize you WANT to take the engine out,, but your timing may change when you realize you can change the clutch now,, and address the oil leak at a later date, and it may not require engine removal..

Have you tried to adjust the clutch,, ???

Hope it helps....
 
inertia said:
Just some thoughts on your original post..

A leaky rear main seal isn't likely to cause a clutch failure,, so treat these as seperate issues..

If the engine is really wet with oil,, it would be wise to find the sources of the leak before pulling the engine,, it may be something as simple as the valve cover, oil pressure sender, fuel pump gasket,, etc.. The fan and gravity send all oil to the back, and lowest point of the engine, and a lotta rear mmain seals get changed ,, only to have the leak continue.. So clean the begeebees outta the engine with "brakeclean",, to track down what's leaking..

I realize you WANT to take the engine out,, but your timing may change when you realize you can change the clutch now,, and address the oil leak at a later date, and it may not require engine removal..

Hope it helps....
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will definitely look a little closer before I go balls to the wall pulling the engine.
 
inertia said:
Just some thoughts on your original post..

A leaky rear main seal isn't likely to cause a clutch failure,, so treat these as seperate issues..

If the engine is really wet with oil,, it would be wise to find the sources of the leak before pulling the engine,, it may be something as simple as the valve cover, oil pressure sender, fuel pump gasket,, etc.. The fan and gravity send all oil to the back, and lowest point of the engine, and a lotta rear main seals get changed ,, only to have the leak continue.. So clean the begeebees outta the engine with "brakeclean",, to track down what's leaking..

I realize you WANT to take the engine out,, but your timing may change when you realize you can change the clutch now,, and address the oil leak at a later date, and it may not require engine removal..

Have you tried to adjust the clutch,, ???

Hope it helps....
Click to expand...

Well, I looked alittle closer and the valve cover on the passenger side had a slight leak. Now I just need to figure out what the deal with the clutch is.
 
tbr1806 said:
Well, I looked alittle closer and the valve cover on the passenger side had a slight leak. Now I just need to figure out what the deal with the clutch is.
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On the drivers side of the bellhousing there's an adjuster as in the pic.. You'll need to adjust those two nuts,, so there some "slack" in the linkage.. Adjustment is so as to have approx 1 inch of clutch pedal free-play before feeling clutch pressure,,

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970092080&postcount=7

thnx to Rocky JS for pic
 
Just did this on my 68 w/ a 273. If you go this route "project creep" will likely catch up with you. I was going to d a re-seal (complete gasket set) and freeze plugs. Ended up doing all that aaaaand an oil pump, timing gears (were a mess) had to pull the crank to get the top half of the rear main out (yes I tried a removal tool, and this is the only car I haven't been able to get the top half of the seal out of) and then found a bad rod bearing. etc, etc, etc,

Well it is ready to go back in, but a reseal and freeze plugs ended up costing about $4-500 bucks. Is that a bad thing? No not really. Just be prepared for it.
 
inertia said:
On the drivers side of the bellhousing there's an adjuster as in the pic.. You'll need to adjust those two nuts,, so there some "slack" in the linkage.. Adjustment is so as to have approx 1 inch of clutch pedal free-play before feeling clutch pressure,,

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970092080&postcount=7

thnx to Rocky JS for pic
Click to expand...

My linkage looks alittle different,it's alittle rusty but threaded all the way down the rod. Which way do I need to adjust it? Do I bring the nut towards the front of the car or the rear?
 
Jesus, the rust on that torsion bar is pretty bad! /6 torsion bars carry some fairly high internal stress.

Push the lever into the bell housing; it out to open up a tiny bit of slack between the ball on the threaded rod and level. If not, turn the adjusting nut to move it forward a bit. If the linkage is tight , then that may indeed be the slipping issue.
 
nm9stheham said:
Jesus, the rust on that torsion bar is pretty bad! /6 torsion bars carry some fairly high internal stress.

Push the lever into the bell housing; it out to open up a tiny bit of slack between the ball on the threaded rod and level. If not, turn the adjusting nut to move it forward a bit. If the linkage is tight , then that may indeed be the slipping issue.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and the picture makes it look worse than it isO:)
 
Well, being new to all of this I did alittle research and it appears that my bad motor mounts could be the source of my clutch issues.
 
tbr1806 said:
Well, being new to all of this I did alittle research and it appears that my bad motor mounts could be the source of my clutch issues.
Click to expand...

Even if that's the case you need to make sure the clutch adjustment has some freeplay, or it will act like you have the clutch partially pressed and slip.
If the clutch isn't fried and needs replacing yet, it will very soon without that freeplay.

Remember you want about an inch of freeplay on the pedal before it starts resisting.
 

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TrailBeast said:
Even if that's the case you need to make sure the clutch adjustment has some freeplay, or it will act like you have the clutch partially pressed and slip.
If the clutch isn't fried and needs replacing yet, it will very soon without that freeplay.

Remember you want about an inch of freeplay on the pedal before it starts resisting.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will definitely be adjusting the clutch.
 
tbr1806 said:
I'm going to be priming the whole car black at some point to stop future surface rust, so the engine bay will be black until the body work is complete#-o. Then when I have the money to get a real paint job the engine bay will get what ever color the body does.
Click to expand...

I hear ya on the money issue but...normal primer won't stop the rust. #-o

I used Eastwood black EPOXY primer under my paint. I'm no expert but I think Epoxy primer is more weather proof. I top-coated mine inside of 5 days.
 
tbr1806 said:
Thanks, and the picture makes it look worse than it isO:)
Click to expand...
Not too get too far off topic and not to cause any panic LOL.... My concern is the rust pitting. Torsion bars are always under stress, and any pitting in the surfaces causes what is called stress risers. Precautions abound for not gripping t-bars with channel-locks and vice grips to avoid surface nicks. IMO, when you get into rust treatment, I would at least treat this by sanding it down, treating with some rust neutralizer and then a good paint coat. And check the torsion bar anchor points back under the car (under the seats). Rust in this crossmember under the car is a classic spot to fail due to the constant stress on the t-bar.

And on the motor mounts..... it may possibly cause the linkage to be out of alignment and not have the right travel. But start with the adjustment. Good for 'inertia' to think about this.
 
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