Coilovers?????

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USCG CHARGER said:
Then the dancer continues! lol... :sign1: I'd like to see some pics of the frame rails twisting from the coil over mounts.. it's hard to imagine this happening from the mount.
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LOL reminds me of when I tried on my wife's stretchy pajama jeans and did a little dance for her one night. She was laughing so hard that she was crying.
 
Mad Dart said:
No, it is way out of the way from my intercooler piping/plumbing.
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Do you think you will have any wheel clearence issues with that snout setup? Also will that connecting point be just as stong and the top 90* mounting point?

Badart said:
LOL reminds me of when I tried on my wife's stretchy pajama jeans and did a little dance for her one night. She was laughing so hard that she was crying.
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Whoa you have crazy hair too?:prayer:
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Do you think you will have any wheel clearence issues with that snout setup? Also will that connecting point be just as stong and the top 90* mounting point?
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Gunna find out soon. I am not running a wide wheel/tire up front. Whatever the stock wheel width is, is what mine will be. I think they are 5" wide wheels?? I don't really know.

That tube can be brought a little tighter also to where you actually slice it in 2 spots and have it slip over the lips of the Shock Tower and then weld it up Solid.. Can you picture that??
 
Mad Dart said:
Gunna find out soon. I am not running a wide wheel/tire up front. Whatever the stock wheel width is, is what mine will be. I think they are 5" wide wheels?? I don't really know.

That tube can be brought a little tighter also to where you actually slice it in 2 spots and have it slip over the lips of the Shock Tower and then weld it up Solid.. Can you picture that??
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Yes I can picture it.. would you then make two tabs coming off of it to mount the shock or would you put in a plate coming off and mount the shock to that between the bar and the tower? Did I describe that right?

Also are you planning on mounting it outboard vs the inboard stock angle of the shock?
 
I would make a 3 way bracket/gusset that will come off the tube down into the shock tower and mount the shock straight to that bracket. However it would be welded solid all around the stock shock tower everywhere it makes contact. This way the weight of the car would not be depending on just the stock shock tower.
As far as the angle of the shock I still need to mock it up but I don't see a need to move the angle as long as the coil does not hit anything as the suspension travels it should be good to go.
 
green1 said:
As soon as you had another support, to trianglulate; the space in between acts like there is a solid plate there. Think about how a wood truss works. It thinks it is solid between the webs. Build a wood frame for a box, then stress it, it will give, front/back, side to side. now add plywood(brace) or just a brace; same thing.

Any triangle is structural.
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Very true. I might not be comprehending this beyond the analogy. When plywood is addred to a framer wall it adds strength by increaseing the shear resistance. However, thin sheet metal offers very little shear strength. With that in mind the spot welded sheet metal, in my opinion, would offer very little if any shear strength....

green1 said:
think of it like a roll cage, tubes side to side, no strength; add the angled tubes, good to go, it is not twisting/giving anymore. Same principle.
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Buddy that fabs the off road stuff triangulates/gussets damn near everything. Does virtually no single sheer stuff as well. I know of one of his projects that ended up its lid in a desert ravine at close to 80 mph, both doors still opened afterward. This was a direct result of proper design, not attaching things to anything that happens to be handy.......
 
Mad Dart said:
I am doing a coil over conversion right now using Badart's Lower Radiator support & Lower Control Arms, RMS Upper Control Arms, RMS Adjustable Strut Rods, QA1 Single Adjustable Shocks and QA1 400lb springs along with a host of other Steering parts from Firm Feel to finish it all off.

I will be adding snout bars like pictured below....... There will also a Plate where the tube passes through the firewall welded solid.
There will be another 3 Way boxed gusset that will go down into where the shock mount is and it will be all welded solid so the Snout Bar will take most of the load and not just the inner fender.

View attachment 292143

View attachment 292144

View attachment 292145
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Now we are talking. This is more or less exactly, in my OPINION, what needs to be done. If what I see in the picture is right, the front of the tube is connected right on top where the k-frame is attached to the car. Everything is tied together. With the front tube tied into the k-frame area some of the load of the coil over would be transfered right into the k-frame. The idea, to the best of my understanding, is to spread the load as much as possible. Seems to me that some people understand the leverage involved by a coil over while others have no clue......again, this is just my OPINION. I am not a fabricator, never claimed to be one. Just have a somewhat basic understanding of leverage and the stress it creates.....
 

Mad Dart said:
I am doing a coil over conversion right now using Badart's Lower Radiator support & Lower Control Arms, RMS Upper Control Arms, RMS Adjustable Strut Rods, QA1 Single Adjustable Shocks and QA1 400lb springs along with a host of other Steering parts from Firm Feel to finish it all off.

I will be adding snout bars like pictured below....... There will also a Plate where the tube passes through the firewall welded solid.
There will be another 3 Way boxed gusset that will go down into where the shock mount is and it will be all welded solid so the Snout Bar will take most of the load and not just the inner fender.

View attachment 292143

View attachment 292144

View attachment 292145
Click to expand...

it seems like you would still need to run a "strut tower" type deal across there just to tie it all in.
 
wracks71 said:
it seems like you would still need to run a "strut tower" type deal across there just to tie it all in.
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Mad Dart; There will be another 3 Way boxed gusset that will go down into where the shock mount is and it will be all welded solid so the Snout Bar will take most of the load and not just the inner fender.
Click to expand...

It will all be tied in together welded solid using 3/16" Plate for the Boxed Gusset that goes down into the Shock tower area. You will see in a few weeks what I am talking about. Believe me when I am done it will not go anywhere!
 
I look at it this way anyone who wants to run a coil over should Not be afraid to do some welding to get the shock supported. A "bolt in" bracket is asking for trouble and I know the us cartool, magnum force, xv, and rms are all weld in or attached to the k-member itself. I have cut inner fender wells for header clearance and I know they don't handle **** and come out very easily so I don't want to place my life into the stock shock towers hands. I've seen Denny's set up and that is going to be my choice for the whole front end and I'll be running 18x8 so clearance is another consideration I have to make.
 
To anyone who thinks the inner fenders provide support here is something for you to try. But first I have to say do not blame me for any damage that may happen to your car. Leave the fenders on the car. Take the front bumper and brackets off. Attach a chain to where you removed the brackets from the ends of the front frame rails. Attach chain to hoist and slowly jack up the car paying attention to the the front of the car, watching for anything flexing. When you get the car high enough slide jack stands under the control arms and lower the car onto them. Remove the front fenders. Now slowly apply tension to the chain with the engine hoist again looking for anything flexing. I can not speak for anybody elses car but mine, which was a rust free California vehicle. What happened in my case was the front frame rails/inner fenders flexed enough at the firewall area to loosen all of the seam sealer from the factory. What this means, in my OPINION is that the fenders provide more support than the inner fenders do. Once again, I am NOT a fabricator. But after seeing what I did when I did the above it does not take a fabricator to understand that the inner sheetmetal fenders, that are spot welded into the car, provide very little structual support. Not saying that the don't provide some support, but not all that much. What this does mean to me is that if you are going to remove the load bearing torsion bars & replace them with a coil over shock that will put all of the load from the fornt of the car into the front frame rails, which are more or less held into the car with the inner fenders there is no way you will not be introducing a good amount of flex into the car. Sure you can argue that with the fenders on the car the flex issue is reduced. But after having my body guy spend close to 2 full days to get one of my fenders right I do not want any stress introduced into them....
 
This is something I threw together tonight when I couldn't sleep. This is one of 3 options that I have for bracing the inner fenders for coilovers. This one most likely offers the least amount of support, but there is tons of clearance. I think that it may be for someone who doesn't want J bars in the engine bay or the other option that Louis is doing.

Imagine the landings along the frame rail and the top of the brace being cut into and welded in the factory mount frame. Bailing wire would be an option too. :D I think the second bar will offer a little more support and help the frame rails from rolling in. What are your thoughts?
 

Attachments

I like triangles too.... I would like to see the rear of the inverted V section (attaching point) going to the lower rear of the fenderwell then a bar going from that V frame attaching point up to the firewall piece somewhere in the middle of the attaching point and the shock tower attachment adding triangleated strenght to keep it from "folding in"

this would keep the rear portion of the inverted V away from the upper control arm adjusters and if that portion attached to the back corner (straight into the cossframe with a L plate that captures both the crossframe and the framerail) it will keep the V portion tucked up close to the sheetmetal....no tire interference

wouldn't hurt to box that upper section of the shock tower also

just my figgurin'

....triangles...lots of triangles
 
oh...one more thing, ...when looking to see how much weight got saved in the coilover conversion....

don't forget to weigh these and the coilovers....sometimes they get missed
 
USGC...I was hopin you would see Badarts pic/post and maybe consider my comments

saved me a PM...
 
Denny,
Everything I read is taken into consideration. Especially with the money I have into my build. I'm most likely going to be running a under fender snout bar connected to a 8.50 cage though. My wife says if I'm gonna have the hp then I WILL have a cage. My biggest optical is going to be the plumbing of the turbos, tire fittment, and stealth.
 
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