cold feet about potential bad lifters

[HTMLmopars]

Got the whole front accessories apart and the intake manifold off but now I'm struggling with the crank/balancer bolt. I have a 1-1/4 socket and a 1 1/8 socket, the 1/4 seems like its a hair loose, do y'all know the correct size for the bolt? (1969 block) I tried to loosen the bolt using the starter and breaker bar onto the frame technique, only did it twice but no results, just kicked the bar off the bolt. Trying not to pull the starter bc I've got headers and it's a pita to get to, but it's not the end of the world if I have to.

 

[George Jets]

1 3/16" ???

Use an air powered impact wrench rotating counter clockwise to loosen the front balancer bolt. Then use a puller (steering wheel puller) to pull the balancer off.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Do most machine shops reface lifters?

No. It takes either a specific machine all its own, OR an attachment to a regular valve grinder. Most shops do not have either, because through the years, people just replace lifters, rather than have them refaced.

With hydraulic lifters, I tend to agree with replacement, since the hydraulic plunger and spring also need refurbishing. By the time you did all that, you'd eclipse the cost of new lifters.

I totally agree however, with refacing solid lifters, because even if they are the oil metering type, there is no spring loaded plunger to wear.

 

[12many]

Just make sure to use a harmonic balancer installation tool to re-install it. Don’t be tempted to use the balancer bolt to draw it back on. Autozone and other chain parts stores loan these out for free, they work and save the crank threads from being damaged. The only issue I’ve ever seen is that sometimes the pieces in these various loan-a-tool kits are sometimes damaged due to previous nimrod abuse.

And regarding the Melling JB-2011 lifters, they are the exact same lifter (yes, made by the same supplier) as the Sealed Power HT-2011.

 

[HTMLmopars]

So the car had a double roller chain in it, it had been installed for a while, I guess that explains the timing mark being incorrect. Anyways, what's the deal with the offset washer? I don't think it's wrong, just not exactly sure what the point of it is.

 

[Rat Bastid]

That’s not an offset washer. It’s the fuel pump eccentric.

 

[HTMLmopars]

That’s not an offset washer. It’s the fuel pump eccentric.

I thought the pump eccentric was ground into the cam as an extra lobe. Makes a lot more sense now. Sorry for the dumb question

 

[Rat Bastid]

I thought the pump eccentric was ground into the cam as an extra lobe. Makes a lot more sense now. Sorry for the dumb question

Not a dumb question. Big block Mopars have the eccentric ground onto the cam like a Chevy, but the SBM, most Fords, Pontiacs and probably some engines I’m forgetting all use an eccentric.

 

[HTMLmopars]

Alright, got to break the cam in today. Got the car to fire instantly which was awesome and ran it between 2 and 3k for 30 min. After it fired, I put the timing light on it at 3k and saw that it had like 45 deg timing, so I took some out of it. (Now I'm realizing that the vacuum advance was connected and this probably wasn't a bad reading.) So I took some timing out of it, but not much. After a half hour I let it idle down and it sat happy at about 900 rpm (probably a bit low but nbd cause we hadn't touched the carb). I revved it from under the hood and just let the throttle snap back closed and then it died. Wasn't a huge rpm gain but also I thought not a big deal it hasnt been really set up.
Went to fire it back up probably 10 minutes later after checking the oil and cleaning up the garage a bit and it just won't fire. Sounds fine cranking but acts like it doesn't have spark. Timing light indicates spark. I advanced the distributor timing back to where we started the day (when it fired instantly) and still nothing. Not even wanting to start.
Our theory is that it vapor locked or maybe fouled the plugs so badly that it won't start. Nothing changed from when it was running to when we tried to restart it initially, and as it sits it just has slightly more timing than when it shut down.

 

[12many]

You let it snap back and now nothing? Hmmm If you crack the throttle do you see fuel squirting from the accelerator nozzles?. If not, Disconnect the fuel line at the carb and crank it to see if you have fuel pumping

 

[HTMLmopars]

You let it snap back and now nothing? Hmmm If you crack the throttle do you see fuel squirting from the accelerator nozzles?. If not, Disconnect the fuel line at the carb and crank it to see if you have fuel pumping

Its got fuel squirting.

 

[MopaR&D]

So you used the Lunati Micro-Trol lifters? I'm watching this thread because I'm building a 440 and will need to choose hydraulic lifters at some point, going solid and/or roller is just not in the budget. Glad to hear at least you didn't have any mechanical failures during the break-in. I'd just start going through ignition system diagnosis; pull a plug and crank it over, if no spark then start working your way through the system. Sounds like an ignition issue, if it's fuel-related it should at least try to run for a bit if you work the acc pump or manually dribble gas down the carb (or starter fluid).

 

[HTMLmopars]

So last night I pulled the plugs. 6 of them were soaked with fuel. Not sure how/why that happened. I did notice a drip of fuel off the throttle linkage after the car was shut down. Is it possible that the throttle shaft in the carb got bent while the carb was off the motor and is leaking fuel now? Thus flooding the engine when it shut off.

 

[Rat Bastid]

So last night I pulled the plugs. 6 of them were soaked with fuel. Not sure how/why that happened. I did notice a drip of fuel off the throttle linkage after the car was shut down. Is it possible that the throttle shaft in the carb got bent while the carb was off the motor and is leaking fuel now? Thus flooding the engine when it shut off.

There has to be some clearance between the shaft and the base plate. When the carb is dead rich it’s not unusual to see some fuel get past the shafts when you shut it down. Clean up the tune up and it will go away.

BTW, if the shafts are bent the throttle won’t operate smoothly.

 

[12many]

Floats stuck perhaps?

 

[HTMLmopars]

There has to be some clearance between the shaft and the base plate. When the carb is dead rich it’s not unusual to see some fuel get past the shafts when you shut it down. Clean up the tune up and it will go away.

BTW, if the shafts are bent the throttle won’t operate smoothly.

Throttle works fine so it's not bent. This carb ran great on the engine with the stock cam, would adding more camshaft make the same jets run rich?

 

[Dartfreak75]

I used luniti microtrol lifters in my 360. The engine is just a little over a year old now and so far so good.

 

[HTMLmopars]

Pulled the plugs, cleaned the fuel off them, reset timing and she fired right up. Seems to be a fuel related issue but not sure what exactly it is. It definitely needs some tuning but it runs and drives

 

[MopaR&D]

Pulled the plugs, cleaned the fuel off them, reset timing and she fired right up. Seems to be a fuel related issue but not sure what exactly it is. It definitely needs some tuning but it runs and drives

Sounds like it might be stuck needle and seat, after shutting down look down the carb venturis and see if there is fuel dripping from the boosters. I've found when a carb sits on the shelf for a while dust and junk can accumulate in the needles and seats (and fuel inlets) and they sometimes leak like they have a stuck float for the first bit of run time (I lightly whack the carb with a wrench if I notice it sticking lol).

Changing the cam will definitely change the engine's "perceived" AFR so you will need to re-tune for sure. It might be a case where it needs to be leaner at idle and light throttle but at higher RPMs and loads it needs to be richer than currently jetted.

 

[Dan the man]

Sounds like it might be stuck needle and seat, after shutting down look down the carb venturis and see if there is fuel dripping from the boosters. I've found when a carb sits on the shelf for a while dust and junk can accumulate in the needles and seats (and fuel inlets) and they sometimes leak like they have a stuck float for the first bit of run time (I lightly whack the carb with a wrench if I notice it sticking lol).

Changing the cam will definitely change the engine's "perceived" AFR so you will need to re-tune for sure. It might be a case where it needs to be leaner at idle and light throttle but at higher RPMs and loads it needs to be richer than currently jetted.

Are rhoads lifters any good? Some say that they are the only lifter to use with a comp xe cam

 

[QuickDart360]

Always heard good things about roads lifters. Only some people didn't like the lifter clatter inherent to this lifters design. Which is normal.

 

[HTMLmopars]

Are rhoads lifters any good? Some say that they are the only lifter to use with a comp xe cam

My dad has been running Rhodes since the 80s in his 440. Still work good even after they sat for 25 years. That doesn't mean anything about their manufacturing quality nowadays though

 

[Dan the man]

Always heard good things about roads lifters. Only some people didn't like the lifter clatter inherent to this lifters design. Which is normal.

Wow. I read that they are suppose to quite down valve train noise when used with the xe series cams

 

[Mopar Tim]

Wow. I read that they are suppose to quite down valve train noise when used with the xe series cams

I used a set of Rhodes in my 408. Roller Rhodes. they are not noisy at all. They get a little tic when engine warmed up at idle. When cold, almost silent. And they seem to be great!

 

[Bewy]

A bigger cam can require the t/blades to be open further than stock, which gives a rich smelly idle [ fuel-ly spark plugs ]. Remove the carb & check the t slots. You ideally want about 0.040" below the blades at idle. More than 0.060" is getting to rich idle & bypass air is needed [ small hole in each t/blade ].