Couple questions, all about bolts.

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PhillH

PhillH

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I have my engine back out to do a few things, it was only in long enough to start it and break it in and around the block a few times, now I'm taking off the oil and valve pans to reseal, not happy about this as I bought expensive reusable rubber gaskets. Anyway, Im probably just paranoid, this is my first engine build and I can't help thinking I want to recheck the torques on the head and mains. Should I, is there a proper procedure, should I just leave it alone???
Also I noticed when I installed the header bolts I forgot to put sealant on the end bolts, which bolts need sealant, are there any others that need it?
 
Doesn't hurt to check and possibly re-torque the head bolts. Sealant on the front and rear header bolts, those are wet holes.
 
So re-torque, just set the proper setting and check, or loosen first? Any bolt on the intake or water pump that are wet?
 
PhillH said:
So re-torque, just set the proper setting and check, or loosen first? Any bolt on the intake or water pump that are wet?
Click to expand...

Just check them, not loosen. There is a couple, I don't remember which ones. You can use some RTV or sealant on all of them, ain't gonna hurt.
 
Iron heads generally do not need a retorque although it might be cheap insurance if you're using a steel head gasket. Aluminum should be after a couple of heat cycles, regardless of gasket type.
If you're having leaks there are a few possible reasons:
1. The surfaces were not 100% clean and oil free, including oil from your skin, when you applied the gaskets or the sealant and gaskets. Everything should be cleaned and wiped off with brake clean prior to any assembly.
2. There is a problem with assembly or machining causing excessive blowby.
3. You do not have a functioning PDC system.

I actually prefer studs in the end holes on the iron heads. They tend to seal better and once installed they stay put so the sealer doesn't get torn or loosened.
 
Sorry, the gaskets that are leaking are the oil pan and one valve cover, not head gaskets. I got rubber reusable gaskets so I wouldn't have to use gasket sealer that i may have to scrape off later, but apparently they still need a touch of it.
I'll just recheck the torques for my own sanity, lol.
 
If you are pulling the oil pan and valve covers, take the time to check the edges for flatness especially around the bolt holes. If they aren't completely flat a small ball peen and a little time can get you there.

***do not over tighten the bolts***

I don't know what you are using for valve covers and intake, but if they are aftermarket, check the valve cover fitment WITHOUT the gasket and make sure it sits nice and flush on the head rail. IF it does not, you need to remove small increments on the valve covers where it might be hitting the intake, until they do.
 
Bad Sport said:
If you are pulling the oil pan and valve covers, take the time to check the edges for flatness especially around the bolt holes. If they aren't completely flat a small ball peen and a little time can get you there.

***do not over tighten the bolts***

I don't know what you are using for valve covers and intake, but if they are aftermarket, check the valve cover fitment WITHOUT the gasket and make sure it sits nice and flush on the head rail. IF it does not, you need to remove small increments on the valve covers where it might be hitting the intake, until they do.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Aftermarket parts from Joe aren't guaranteed to fit with Bill, Bob, and Jims aftermarket parts. Valve covers to intakes is a very good, and quite common example.
As for the head bolts, I don't like to restretch bolts over and over again. I know the 273 I'm running was rebuilt once before. I wouldn't install those bolts again at next rebuild.
 
Bad Sport you nailed it, the Mopar performance valve covers are hitting the Edelbrock Performer intake, Ill have to notch them. I had also found the carb was leaking fuel and pouring it into the crankcase, thinning and overfilling the oil, this may have caused the Kevco oil pan to seep oil around the gasket. Ill clean the surfaces and try it again with these fixes, hopefully leak free.
 
PhillH said:
Any bolt on the intake or water pump that are wet?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are bolts on the WP that go into water. The three across the top are dry (at least on my R1), the bottom two long bolts go into water and the bottom short bolts go into the timing cover where there's oil. I've never seem them leak but I always put a dab of thread sealer on them too. On the bottom two long bolts it's a good idea to put a little anti seize on the unthreaded part. This way if you have a small leak they won't corrode and gall (dissimilar metals) to the aluminum timing cover.

IMO the best fix for the end bolt holes on the exhaust is to use studs. Coat the end that goes into the head with a good thread sealer, double nut the other end and run them in tight against the shank. Less chance of leaking as compared to bolts.

Your mileage may vary.
 
PhillH said:
Bad Sport you nailed it, the Mopar performance valve covers are hitting the Edelbrock Performer intake, Ill have to notch them.
Click to expand...

Just take your time so you don't remove too much. Set it on and mark it, remove a little and retry, rinse and repeat until the cover sits nice and flat without the gasket.
 
Thanks , I will follow the advice, just took the covers off, no wonder it's leaking, they are hitting in three spots on the intake. Oil pan is leaking around the front u-shape, sucks, that gasket was around 35 bucks and I still have to use sealer. It was a new oil pan and I torqued it.
 
Bad Sport said:
Just check them, not loosen.
Click to expand...
x3. Keep in mind that to get proper torque, the bolt has to be turning. So all you can really do at this point is go up to proper torque and see if anything moves, indicating it was no longer at proper torque; it should not.
 
my oil pan was leaking same place, a quick bead of right stuff and a shot of paint worked for me
 
Actually you can't verify torque by trying to tighten a fastener that is supposed to be torqued to a certain level. It will always take a higher torque number to initially start a fastener turning than to keep it turning. So you should always back them off at least 1/2 turn, then bring them back up to proper torque setting in one smooth motion. Retorquing non-torque-to-yield type bolts does not harm them. Over-torquing them certainly can.
 
I picked up a new bit for the air grinder and took care of the valve covers, eazy peazy, they lay nice and flat now with no gasket, I cannot say enough about getting the right tool for the job, I learn this the older I get, 20 bucks well spent.
The right stuff I believe will take care of the oil pan, that problem should be easy too. To me it sounds like Moper theory on the torque settings sounds right, that's kinda what I was getting at and wanted to here it from someone more experienced. I'll do that, one at a time, I'll leave the rod bolts alone since they have ARP's in them.
I also got a new seal kit for the tranny since I have it out as well, I cannot stand leaks. Got the Buochillon kit down kit in today, it looks really well built, expensive but now I see why, really nice.
 
I think that just backing them off and retorquing them will still add more stretch to them.

Moper is correct about the breakaway torque to start the bolt turning is more than the dynamic torque to keep it turning. That is because static friction (needed to begin motions) is higher than dynamic (moving) friction (needed to keep it moving once started).

But to keep from adding any stretch to them just to verify the torque, just torque them to the recommended spec and call it good... If you do this it will still fall in the lower tolerance allowed for the torque spec and not add any more stretch to the bolt...
 
Okay I see what your saying, is it worse to have stretch or not enough torque? This is the last time I get to double check everything so not tying to be a pain, just looking for insurance done right.
 
PhillH said:
Okay I see what your saying, is it worse to have stretch or not enough torque? This is the last time I get to double check everything so not tying to be a pain, just looking for insurance done right.
Click to expand...


One affects the other, if it stretches it could lower the final torque number. Just put your wrench on them and check them, no need to loosen them.
 
Old phrase, keep it simple stupid. Just check for looseness, trust I did it right and recheck up to torque and sleep better. Laughing out loud!! Thanks guys.
 
Stretch on a non-torque-to-yield bolt can be a sign of the fastener starting to fail. The standard mains bolts are non-torque-to-yield.

Do you have any real reason to think that you missed a bolt being properly torqued. If you have legit reason, then go through them. If this is just nervousness without any real reason to think one was missed, then it is just overdoing thing....IMO.

As has been said, if you want to check, pull up to the torque rating. if they do not move, you know they are somewhere between close to torque. I do that, just to sees if anything is way off.
 
Yes, that's what i'm doing. No real reason except that I torqued everything, and after pulling the engine (unplanned) for some oil leaks, I found some bolts taking it out that were way to loose, IE water pump, carb and such that I know I torqued, made me nervous, can't get it out of my head.
 
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