DANGEROUS PRODUCT = Moog Ball Joints

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I snapped a few pictures this morning to better illustrate the issue.
 

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Ya know it might be time to get some guys together and see if we can launch some class action. At least make the US safety people earn their keep. This is ridiculous.
 
you have me worried, every time i go down the road i can hear little things coming off my front end susp. noises and im thinking my lower ball joints are going to give out!

maybe i should replace before this happens.
 
The problem is sending work overseas. Build here buy here should be the end of the story. Our country would thrive. Hi terrif on any imported goods. Our dollar would become strong again. We should be self supportive and we would eleminate most if not all of the poor quiality that comes from overses workers. My 2c.
 
jbc426 said:
I purchased a pair of Moog Problem Solver lower ball joints for my '68 Barracuda convertible. The pair that I put in there when I went through the suspension 3 or 4k miles ago were worn out? My alignment guy lifted the front of the car to make enough room for a prybar to lip under the tire and lift it up. The amount of freeplay at the lower balljoint was scary. The bottom of the tire would move over 3/4 of an inch up before the balljoint play would be taken up. Yes, Moog joints.

I ordered another set of Moog joints from Summit, K-781 & K783. I have the 11 &3/4" disc brake swap on my car.

The driver's side went in like normal. When I pulled the passenger side out of the box and prepared to put the rubber boot on it, I felt the entire ball joint itself wiggling loosely in the forged arm. I called Summit and they sent me a replacement and picked up the bad one UPS. I love Summit!

The next day, I received the replacement passenger side lower ball joint, # K-781. The ball joint seemed tight in the arm, so I began to bolt it in. No sooner than I had the K-781 bolted to the spindle and began bolting on the castle nut to attach the assembly to the lower control arm, than the ball joint fell out of the forged arm nearly dropping my spindle/dustshield onto the ground. I was just barley able to catch it in time.

I started doing some research about Moog quality and was disappointed to find this is a rather widely known issue. What a disappointment to find out Moog sold us out! :wack:

Needless to say, I am returning both lower ball joints to Summit and making them aware of the dangerous quality control issue with Moog.

I found a company that reportedly sells high quality suspension pasts called XRF Chassis. Has anyone tried their parts?
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Yes Moog is becoming an inferior part now. They are predominately produces in Mexico with a small portion coming in from China and an even smaller portion that's still produced on our shores. As far as XRF goes.......they are the best!

The designer and owner of the company was the lead designer for Dana/Spicer years ago. He was getting disgusted with the company's direction and the use of inferior materials and craftsmanship at Dana/Spicer that he broke away and started XRF Chassis. We had a sales rep come in and showed us cutaways of a Spicer ball joint, a Moog, and their own. You could just tell just by looking at the XRF that it is a superior ball joint. We also saw a video of a pull test between the three and the XRF took nearly 1.5X the amount of force to pull apart than the rest.

So the first XRF ball joints purchased went on a Toyota pre runner 2wd truck. We put two sets of moogs in it and within 3 months they were loose and rattling. We then put in a set XRF's on the third attempt and they are still in the truck til today and tight, 4 years later. I was so sold on them after that, that I purchased a complete set for my 71 Scamp. I will always use XRF when they are available for what I'm working on. Also they are made by our friendly, skillful, and smart neighbors to the north, Canada!
 
I have $35 eBay specials on my Demon, came tight, and feel just fine so far LOL - I bought some for a Charger though not a Dart..
 
There has to be some sort of swadgine/crimping process done after the ball goes into the socket. I suspect that they did not have that process set up properly and not getting a good enough "hit" on them to make them retain properly..

But as I stated earlier in this thread, they need to run their proper set up pieces to validate their process each time that they run a batch... If not, you just end up running a bunch of junk/scrap....

It's basic manufacturing.
 
China builds what they are told to build. If Moog asked for the best ball joint made in the world China could do it and in quantity. If you asked a USA company to build you the best they probably could as well but probably not in quantity. Have you ever worked anywhere with say over 1000 employees? There are so many worthless workers in that number. Maybe it's the same in China I don't know, but there is very little pride in doing the best job in the USA in a large production plant anymore. On a small scale you can get a group of badass workers but on the big scale the turds seem to poison the whole well. Then add our countries tax rates and regulations and it is no wonder nobody wants to start or keep open a big welfare manufacturing plant here. Korea is where I would actually go if I were the next Steve Jobs. Korea seems to make good stuff without having to be evil to their population to force it.
 
Hersbird said:
China builds what they are told to build. If Moog asked for the best ball joint made in the world China could do it and in quantity. If you asked a USA company to build you the best they probably could as well but probably not in quantity. Have you ever worked anywhere with say over 1000 employees? There are so many worthless workers in that number. Maybe it's the same in China I don't know, but there is very little pride in doing the best job in the USA in a large production plant anymore. On a small scale you can get a group of badass workers but on the big scale the turds seem to poison the whole well. Then add our countries tax rates and regulations and it is no wonder nobody wants to start or keep open a big welfare manufacturing plant here. Korea is where I would actually go if I were the next Steve Jobs. Korea seems to make good stuff without having to be evil to their population to force it.
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Please take your politics somewhere else. I can assure YOU that this thread is going downhill fast if you continue this direction.
 
It's the new corporate attitude: Squeeze as much profit out as you can even if it sacrifices quality...

Take their money and run....
 
I'm not going to get political but i am going to say American made, whether from a large operation or small, is ten times better than Chinese made stuff. My opinion is not only opinion but fact. 9 times out of ten when I have a problem with a part it's a part that was made in China. Here's a good recent example: yesterday I bought a 2 pack of 5/16 inverted tubing unions. Go to thread them on my transmission cooler lines and they won't tighten up all the way. Take them apart and see the unions haven't been threaded all the way. Look at the Dorman package and sure enough, Made In China. Ugh, another trip to the store to find the other 4 packages have the same problem. I just had them order me a different brand.
 
For what it's worth, both boxes have the "Made in USA" text on them. There is no other information regarding this other than the text on the end of the box.

I fitted the XRF lower ball joints yesterday, will grease them up today and do a driveway alignment. They went together as expected, the ball stud could be moved in the socket by hand and there was no freeplay detected. The rubber boots came already mounted on the ball studs.
 
71Scamper said:
Yes Moog is becoming an inferior part now. They are predominately produces in Mexico with a small portion coming in from China and an even smaller portion that's still produced on our shores. As far as XRF goes.......they are the best!

The designer and owner of the company was the lead designer for Dana/Spicer years ago. He was getting disgusted with the company's direction and the use of inferior materials and craftsmanship at Dana/Spicer that he broke away and started XRF Chassis. We had a sales rep come in and showed us cutaways of a Spicer ball joint, a Moog, and their own. You could just tell just by looking at the XRF that it is a superior ball joint. We also saw a video of a pull test between the three and the XRF took nearly 1.5X the amount of force to pull apart than the rest.

So the first XRF ball joints purchased went on a Toyota pre runner 2wd truck. We put two sets of moogs in it and within 3 months they were loose and rattling. We then put in a set XRF's on the third attempt and they are still in the truck til today and tight, 4 years later. I was so sold on them after that, that I purchased a complete set for my 71 Scamp. I will always use XRF when they are available for what I'm working on. Also they are made by our friendly, skillful, and smart neighbors to the north, Canada!
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Well I was already worried about the Moog ball joint I put under my tundra. I had it aligned, after a ton of front end work I did, and it was great for about a week. Then every now and again I pulls to the right slightly. When I get in from offshore I am gonna check it out.

I just hope their offset upper bushings for mopars aren't junk right now either. May want to get those before the stock goes to the dogs.
 
krazykuda said:
There has to be some sort of swadgine/crimping process done after the ball goes into the socket. I suspect that they did not have that process set up properly and not getting a good enough "hit" on them to make them retain properly..

But as I stated earlier in this thread, they need to run their proper set up pieces to validate their process each time that they run a batch... If not, you just end up running a bunch of junk/scrap....

It's basic manufacturing.
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I agree.

I worked as a manufacturing engineer for a company that did lots of crimping processes. It was small BNC electrical connectors. The crimping/swaging process was a little tougher to quantify and control than others.
 
67Dart273 said:
Please take your politics somewhere else. I can assure YOU that this thread is going downhill fast if you continue this direction.
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Oh please! There was no more politics in my post then in any that proceed it or that are following it now. I take it you have not seen the inside of a current large US workforce. I'm not saying it is anywhere near a majority but it doesn't take many turds to close a pool.
 
jbc426 said:
For what it's worth, both boxes have the "Made in USA" text on them. There is no other information regarding this other than the text on the end of the box.

I fitted the XRF lower ball joints yesterday, will grease them up today and do a driveway alignment. They went together as expected, the ball stud could be moved in the socket by hand and there was no freeplay detected. The rubber boots came already mounted on the ball studs.
Click to expand...

I would be willing to bet they were made in the USA. That kind of thows a wrench into all the arguments here doesn't it?
 
After hearing other horror stories about moog , i read up on the XRF joints, and bought their upper, and lower ball joints, and larger C body inner and outer tie rod ends. Everything is still boxed up as i have not gotten to that part of the project. My idler and pitman arms are C body arms from PST. Not sure of their brand.

What i did do was research XRF at length before i bought my parts. They are engineered in Canada, and manufactured all over the world to (XRF specifications). XRF claims that a manufacturing plant has to meet their specific criteria to be selected to make their products. Also read that their head engineers did work for other established companies, but didnt like the way corners were cut to save a buck. I also talked with a gent on here at FABO who put a set of XRF joints on a F350 at 50k up in Calgary BC. This truck spends most of its life in a tough offroad environment. He told me at 200K the XRF joints are still as tight as the day they were first installed. That sold me.

Found a place who was willing to sell em via jobber price to me. Go to www.mibearings.com

XRF K781 $36
XRF K783 $36

These lower ball joint pn#s are for 73 to 76 disc brake cars. Or an earlier drum brake car you may be converting to 73 up disc brakes.

Thats one super price for a joint you will likely never have to replace ever again. Screw moog and their problem causers, i mean problem solvers.

What moog and others fail to realize is they are being penny wise and dollar foolish. Bad publicity travels fast and is very hard to shake. In the late 70s thru mid 80s the big 3 made junk, and the japanese made good quality in the same timeframe. Nowadays the quality of american cars and trucks is on par with the japanese, and in some cases better, but some people still have that perception that japanese cars are somehow superior. Seeds planted 35 years ago still altering that perception.

Matt
 
Well I guess that Moog is taking another approach to "Lifetime Warranty"...

If the driver is killed when their product fails, then they don't have to warranty it anymore...

If your lifetime ends, so does their warranty, therefore it is a "Lifetime Warranty"....
 
Okay...

When I had my shop my customers didn't get a choice. They had Moog installed. In five years I warrantied out one Moog part and that was because my business partner installed it wrong.

For the past year, I've been selling these parts, not installing them. I've yet to warranty out a Moog part.

A run of bad parts doesn't mean the whole line is garbage. It doesn't mean that every one you open to install will be junk out of the box.

Got news for a lot of you guys, too. China, Mexico, US made, it doesn't matter. Someone not doing his or her job on the line, means there's a run of bad parts. Got proof of that as dealership tech most of my career, mainly for Ford, mainly working on cars built in the US. What, you think that recalls and warranty issues are because the car was built in China (it's not)?
 
Sounds like xrf might stand the same odds of being CCT....(Cheap Chinese Trash)
 
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