SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
They have the same part number? Is K791 just the identifier for this type of bushing?
73 Dart Front suspension rebuild
- Thread starter SputnikOne
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I don't know but I suspect that part numbers are often shared between manufacturers.
The NAPA oil filters were the same as WIX if I remember correctly.
The NAPA oil filters were the same as WIX if I remember correctly.
in a sense, yes.
if you bought an all in one kit, chances are it's parts collected from the lowest bidder offered as an easy one stop shop.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Silly me thinking it would be easy to get the parts I needed, you guys said I need to measure the bushings? Including the sleeves?
You can use the chart I posted earlier with the sleeve diameters to figure out if your bushings are in the ballpark.
But yeah, especially since you’re planning on doing the work at a place that’s going to charge you time if you can at least have a good idea the parts will fit beforehand that would be a better start
michiganpat
Well-Known Member
73 uses the same large ball joint disc or drum, unless it's a REALLY early 73 model using up '72 parts.....I recommend using the moog offset UCA bushings, I was able to get 4.2 degrees of caster with proper camber (-0.5 to -1 degree) with them. the UCA and LCA bushing removal was the biggest PITA for me, even with an arbor press at work I used new poly strut rod bushings, rubber everything else sourced from Rockauto. while you're at it, I'd recommend new larger diameter torsion bars, and adding a sway bar if you don't have one. I did on my duster 2 years ago when I redid the suspension (also swapped from drum to disc at the same time), very glad I did. I went from the stock .85" tbars (100lb/in wheel rate) to some NOS .92" bars (150lb/in wheel rate) I found in the classifieds here, and love it.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Hey all, its time to revive this thread, just got the car back from the shop after they replaced pretty much everything but the shocks and the actual control arms in the front suspension, it doesnt squeak anymore when driving but its all over the place, I found the tires I need for the car and they're on order to be installed wensday.
I dont know if its the work they did or the fact that the terrible negative camber is gone now and the tires are still terrible, but it wont stay straight on the road, the steering wheel seems to want to pull in the direction the car is turning, and the tires make this squealing sound like a car drifting when im driving straight, I took it to the hobby shop on base and threw it on a frame lift to look at it and noticed the passenger side tire was still toed inwards a decent amount.
I emailed the shop and they said "Sorry we forgot to inform you but the alignment specs for your vehicle aren't in our system so we aligned it 'the best we could.'" They said they dont think its possible to align it using 3d alignment, which im pretty sure is balogny, but ill probably have the tire shop look at it after they replace the tires.
Any thoughts? The car is definitely not safe to drive the way it is, it wants to yank towards a pothole sometimes if that tire hits it (hawaii is full of bumps and potholes on roads) so I might just have it transported to the shop when the time comes.
I dont know if its the work they did or the fact that the terrible negative camber is gone now and the tires are still terrible, but it wont stay straight on the road, the steering wheel seems to want to pull in the direction the car is turning, and the tires make this squealing sound like a car drifting when im driving straight, I took it to the hobby shop on base and threw it on a frame lift to look at it and noticed the passenger side tire was still toed inwards a decent amount.
I emailed the shop and they said "Sorry we forgot to inform you but the alignment specs for your vehicle aren't in our system so we aligned it 'the best we could.'" They said they dont think its possible to align it using 3d alignment, which im pretty sure is balogny, but ill probably have the tire shop look at it after they replace the tires.
Any thoughts? The car is definitely not safe to drive the way it is, it wants to yank towards a pothole sometimes if that tire hits it (hawaii is full of bumps and potholes on roads) so I might just have it transported to the shop when the time comes.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Possibly related, the passenger side tire (the side that usually makes the squealing sound) sounds like something is rolling around inside of it, that or the wheel bearing is really bad, but it spins fine so im not sure.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Well the suspension components all seem to be installed well, the wheel doesnt move at all if I grab it and shake it while its free hanging, I think they just butchered the alignment, which is rather annoying, but they obviously didnt test drive it
If the wheel didn't make that noise before, and it does now, they did it. Whether or not the wheel shakes when you grab onto it, that's not normal. Since they didn't change your tires out, it's wheel bearing, hub, or brake related. None of which are good.
I can set a better alignment than what you left that shop with just by eyeballing it, it's not that difficult. Anyone that understands even basic alignment principles and has a wrench and a tape measure can do a better job than that "shop". Seriously, I've just set max caster on the adjusters and used a tape measure to ballpark the toe and gotten FAR better results than what you've got there.
The cotter pins aren't even finished in anything that resembles correctly. At least half of them could fall out, and ALL of them are just sharp bits of metal sticking out to grab onto stuff when you turn the wheels. I mean, that's ridiculously basic stuff. If they did that wrong, I wouldn't bet on anything being right.
Quite frankly, they shouldn't have let you leave with those tires in that condition if you were driving it out of there. Doesn't matter if the tires looked like that when you drove it in, you've got cords showing. And not just in a spot or two, all the way around in multiple locations. If tires weren't part of the job they never should have even touched it.
Sorry, but there is absolutely no way I'd trust anything that shop touched. On top of the really basic mistakes, they're either lying to you directly or they're so incompetent that they don't even understand what the result should have been.
I am surprised to see that they aligned it with tires like these:
Holy cow, they are terrible.
It sure is disappointing how so many people encounter shitty alignment shops that can't understand something as simple as alignment cams and tie rod sleeves.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
So, new tires, then a DIFFERENT alignment place, and what of these cotter pins? When you say finished do you mean like all the way in?
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
As for the aound from the wheel/tire, im not sure, never had a reason to spin the wheel freely like thay before so I never noticed it if it was, here's a video I grabbed of the squealing sound while driving home, it seemed pretty inconsistent but sometimes squealed after hitting a bump or going over 30ish
Dave999
Well-Known Member
few ways to do a pin
1, spilt aligned with the stud direction, fat end doesn't fit in to the opposite nut space and the other end , the ends, split and bent round the nut
2, split parallel with the ground, fat head does fit into its space, short end out straight or slightly down and the long end bent back over the nut in the direction of the end of the stud.
3, both ends bent round over the nut towards stud and again fat end fits
no matter the right and wrongs of all 3 . All are better than what is visible which appears to be split any which way they fancy, with a slight splay to the split ends
pins could be knocked out by road debris
when i purchased my car, the only reason i got home in 1 piece was these pins.
seller did not mention it had been thrown back together to get it rolling, in fact i don't think he knew and had driven it like that for a few years.
all nuts loose and just held on by split pin, handling was much better when the track rod end tapers were not acting as the steering swivel...
poor mans alignment
drive it back and forth next to a wall adjusting steering wheel until you are sure the wheels are straight ahead
jack it up
take off wheels
set hubs on jack stands car as close to level as you can loads of access
wind the upper arm rear adjuster round so that the bolt on that side is as close to the middle of the car as possible
wind the upper arm front adjuster round so the bolt is as far away from the centre of the car as possible
do both up tight
put wheels back on
and stand it on it wheels
bounce it
roll it a full tyre turn back and forward again
car will look like a fat ballet dancer from the front.... the tops of the front wheels will lean outwards and the bottoms will be tucked in, you can more or less guarantee one side worse than the other
with a builders spirit level against the wheel adjust the rear upper arm adjuster from its extreme position until the wheel is upright.
do the same on the other side
return to the first and bias the bubble over so slightly to indicate that the top of the wheel is now more in, than the bottom i.e touching the line on one side but a hair away on the other.
do the other side and do the nuts up tight
car should no longer look like a fat ballet dancer.
roll it back and forth
jack car and undo sleeve clamps for track rods.
work out which way to turn the sleeve to make track rods longer and shorter and write it on a sticker and stick it to each front guard, longer= clockwise shorter anti clockwise etc i can't remember which.
put car back on wheels
stick a tiny pin in the middle of the middle fin in the tread at the front of the tyres, a compromise position slightly down to allow easy measurement will do..
use string or tape measure to measure the distance between the pins
do the same at the rear in a similar facing slightly down compromise position
you want to adjust the track rod sleeves to give a 1/8 -3/16 difference between the two measurements. Narrower measurement at the front larger at than the back
you will have to do this by doing an equal turn on both side track rod sleeves. do not adjust it all at one side....!
so add a tiny change side to side until you achieve your goal
do up all the nuts
now this isn't an alignment as such, BUT at least you can drive it with out scrubbing off the inner tyre tread
it may pull a little one way or the other but it won't be fighting you and trying to take you off the road
be wary of tramlining on ridged roads during your initial testing
if you really want to do it properly
the easiest alignment kit you can buy to use is something similar to this below
long arms out the front on each wheel connected with elastic, the arms contain a big pointer and protractor for setting toe in
and the small devices sticking out the sides allow you to do caster camber and inclination angle, which you can worry about some other time...
the kit shown only works with 10-15 inch wheels so is the kind of stuff workshops sell off now that modern cars and lasers are the key to their business
what is shown is a UK Churchill Wheel-Force branded set up but the same old kit was sold under different names the world over. no use to anyone with a modern car...works to our benefit. my full set up cost me £50, with instruction book, same kit x2 (stuff for both sides) as on the photos i stole from the internet below
Dave
1, spilt aligned with the stud direction, fat end doesn't fit in to the opposite nut space and the other end , the ends, split and bent round the nut
2, split parallel with the ground, fat head does fit into its space, short end out straight or slightly down and the long end bent back over the nut in the direction of the end of the stud.
3, both ends bent round over the nut towards stud and again fat end fits
no matter the right and wrongs of all 3 . All are better than what is visible which appears to be split any which way they fancy, with a slight splay to the split ends
pins could be knocked out by road debris
when i purchased my car, the only reason i got home in 1 piece was these pins.
seller did not mention it had been thrown back together to get it rolling, in fact i don't think he knew and had driven it like that for a few years.
all nuts loose and just held on by split pin, handling was much better when the track rod end tapers were not acting as the steering swivel...
poor mans alignment
drive it back and forth next to a wall adjusting steering wheel until you are sure the wheels are straight ahead
jack it up
take off wheels
set hubs on jack stands car as close to level as you can loads of access
wind the upper arm rear adjuster round so that the bolt on that side is as close to the middle of the car as possible
wind the upper arm front adjuster round so the bolt is as far away from the centre of the car as possible
do both up tight
put wheels back on
and stand it on it wheels
bounce it
roll it a full tyre turn back and forward again
car will look like a fat ballet dancer from the front.... the tops of the front wheels will lean outwards and the bottoms will be tucked in, you can more or less guarantee one side worse than the other
with a builders spirit level against the wheel adjust the rear upper arm adjuster from its extreme position until the wheel is upright.
do the same on the other side
return to the first and bias the bubble over so slightly to indicate that the top of the wheel is now more in, than the bottom i.e touching the line on one side but a hair away on the other.
do the other side and do the nuts up tight
car should no longer look like a fat ballet dancer.
roll it back and forth
jack car and undo sleeve clamps for track rods.
work out which way to turn the sleeve to make track rods longer and shorter and write it on a sticker and stick it to each front guard, longer= clockwise shorter anti clockwise etc i can't remember which.
put car back on wheels
stick a tiny pin in the middle of the middle fin in the tread at the front of the tyres, a compromise position slightly down to allow easy measurement will do..
use string or tape measure to measure the distance between the pins
do the same at the rear in a similar facing slightly down compromise position
you want to adjust the track rod sleeves to give a 1/8 -3/16 difference between the two measurements. Narrower measurement at the front larger at than the back
you will have to do this by doing an equal turn on both side track rod sleeves. do not adjust it all at one side....!
so add a tiny change side to side until you achieve your goal
do up all the nuts
now this isn't an alignment as such, BUT at least you can drive it with out scrubbing off the inner tyre tread
it may pull a little one way or the other but it won't be fighting you and trying to take you off the road
be wary of tramlining on ridged roads during your initial testing
if you really want to do it properly
the easiest alignment kit you can buy to use is something similar to this below
long arms out the front on each wheel connected with elastic, the arms contain a big pointer and protractor for setting toe in
and the small devices sticking out the sides allow you to do caster camber and inclination angle, which you can worry about some other time...
the kit shown only works with 10-15 inch wheels so is the kind of stuff workshops sell off now that modern cars and lasers are the key to their business
what is shown is a UK Churchill Wheel-Force branded set up but the same old kit was sold under different names the world over. no use to anyone with a modern car...works to our benefit. my full set up cost me £50, with instruction book, same kit x2 (stuff for both sides) as on the photos i stole from the internet below
Dave
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abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
thats scary looking.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Yikes, yeah, ill set those right before I drive it again, and double check it hasn't already happened, as for the alignment guide, its hard to tell where center is on the wheels because theyre not pointing the same way, which is weird because the car seems to want to drive straight on flat roads, but probably a side effect of the tire.
The shop emailed me back and said that they did notice the sound on the passenger side tire and it "sounds like a wheel bearing" would've been nice if they told me about it
The shop emailed me back and said that they did notice the sound on the passenger side tire and it "sounds like a wheel bearing" would've been nice if they told me about it
Dave999
Well-Known Member
yeah would be a waste of time doing the alignment really before you sort that bearing and get some new tyres.
if the wheels are not pointing the same way
basic bodge to make car easier to push round the yard
2 3 foot pieces of straight wood or steel tube
cable tied to the front wheels with the majority pointing forward
they will be nosing in, or splayed out when you observe them adjust sleeves to achieve a better setting
with the toe in wildly wrong you can end up with a car that can not be pushed anywhere, 1 tyre will always try to tuck under and you just can't move the car, your baldy tyres are a benefit in this area at the mo...
if the wheels are not pointing the same way
basic bodge to make car easier to push round the yard
2 3 foot pieces of straight wood or steel tube
cable tied to the front wheels with the majority pointing forward
they will be nosing in, or splayed out when you observe them adjust sleeves to achieve a better setting
with the toe in wildly wrong you can end up with a car that can not be pushed anywhere, 1 tyre will always try to tuck under and you just can't move the car, your baldy tyres are a benefit in this area at the mo...
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SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Yep, the toe is currently the suspension component that i do know how to adjust, the others ill have to look back into the manual to learn, but looks like the tire place doesnt do alignments so if I want a professional alignment ill have to find yet another place. Though I would definitely get it driving right before then, im not sure currently what they set the caster and camber to but judging by how it feels going down the road and that the ride height seems to be too high im going to assume its not good at all.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
As for the bearing, what should I look for to replace? Are these common parts or is it going to be another treasure hunt again?
https://www.autozone.com/p/duralast...oductPositionId=23&productUniqueId=4756622849
Autozome came back with this part that "fits my car" which seems too cheap to be good, is this the kindve part i need?
https://www.autozone.com/p/duralast...oductPositionId=23&productUniqueId=4756622849
Autozome came back with this part that "fits my car" which seems too cheap to be good, is this the kindve part i need?
If those are the 73+ 10” drums and large upper ball joint spindles then the wheel bearings should be set17 for the inners and set2 for the outers. Remember you need 2 bearings for each spindle.
The wheel bearings are all pretty common but the different year and size drums used different bearings, disks too, so you can often see the wrong parts listed as fitting depending on the interchange.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
I know theyre drums, not quite sure if its 9 or 10 inch drums though, what you're saying is id need to order two per wheel?
They should be 10’s if it’s a ‘73. If they’re 9’s you’d need different bearings than what I posted.
And yes, you need an inner and outer bearing on each side, and they’re different sizes for the inner and outer.
I never do bearings on one wheel. If one wheel needs them, the other is soon to follow so you might as well do both front wheels.
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