Diesel Trucks

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ofcourse it was very unstable at speed. you were probably way over its payload and tow rating. those numbers are there for a reason... *** end dragging with no weight on the front wheels..


here is what o tow with a little tacoma. drives straight, doesn't get blown around and stops damn well. like i said though i'm using the proper equipment to do it. a nice brake controller and a weight distribution hitch with anti sway built in.. that stuff makes all the difference in the world..

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Nice set up, here's mine one reason why I need a diesel, toy hauler 2 quad's in the back somewhere around 15k with the fresh water tank full.

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I noticed one thing all you guys who love diesels have in common...you all own old ones. Give a newer one a whirl. You might change your tune.
I've had:
  • '84 Chevy 6.2L, bought in '85. As expected, the injection pump went out at a bit over 100k miles. No injection pumps to wear out now. Good torque but 135 HP rating LOL; no excavator towing up a mountain.
  • '01 Ford 7.3L. The cam sensors went out regularly 'til International fixed that. More cold start problems than either Dodge Cummins
  • '07 Dodge CTD. Common to have the injector harnesses go out at just past 100k miles
  • And now a '16 Dodge CTD. The 2016 is the best of the bunch in terms of smoothness and capability. I've changed filters and oil and had one sensor fail under warranty; that has been the sum total maintenance for 86 k miles.
I've put 86k miles on it in 2.5 years..... towing 3-5 tons for 300-600 miles for jobs, mountains to cross over on every job. No way a current gas engine can do the same with so little effort. Towing a little camper is not at all the same thing.

BTW, the new sensor cost is not in the sensor so much as in the computer bus interface components. All cars/trucks, gas or diesel have gone this way, so it makes no difference. The sensor failures are common to all engines today..... TPS and O2 sensors fail in gas engines all the time. And there are delete kits out there for the stuff you may not want...

Paid $37k for the '07 new and $52k for the '16 new.... both Mega Cabs, mid level trim. These trucks pay for themselves in a few years because they make my work trips possible. At 35-40k miles per year, the longevity of the diesel under heavy loads over long distance is making financial sense for me. Fewer truck replacements over 15+ years. If I was not using for work, I'd buy an old truck LOL

Now since you are running crews in yours, then I may have to concede it to you to use gas engined trucks. With the crew use (abuse) I am sure they get, then the cheaper initial cost and repair cost may very well make sense. I knew one guy like you who had his crews stupidly put gasoline in his diesel pickups and blew them up. I am going to bet that your work is all within a small radius area and long haul issues are not as much of a factor. Oh, and I do my own vehicle repairs.... your $4-10k for a head gasket involved a lot more than replacing the head gasket, so, sorry, I have to call that particular cost BS.. OK, lets' call it 'incompletely described'.

You're making the mistake of spreading your vehicle use experience to all situations. It just does not hold up in every case like it does to your particular situation, as the below illustrates:

If I sold my '07 CTD right now, it would fetch over $15k and so would have cost me <$25k for depreciation + all engine related maintenance (1 injector, injector harness, + mostly oil changes is ALL of the engine maintenance I have done to it) for 217k miles, so about 12 cents per mile for the truck depreciation and engine. With a gas engine, the fuel costs would have been considerably higher for my use, the initial truck price minus the sell cost today would have been a bigger loss, so it would equivalently work out to at least 15 cents per mile, assuming the same low engine maintenance costs for the gas engine, the added fuel cost margin, and the same expenses for non-engine stuff. So you can see how your cost of ownership examples does not hold for all cases.
 
Funny you^^^^^had so many problems with your 07. I bought mine new in April 07 5.9 Quad cab 4x4. I towed my 26' race car trailer and drag car all over the South.Also towed a36' toy hauler all over the South. I put 285K miles on it til I sold it a couple months ago for 17,000. I never had a harness, injector, or pump failure, mater of fact I never had an engine issue. It was hard on A/C compressors (3), but other than that just normal maintenance.
 
I really don't feel I had any special issues with the '07..... just the usual stuff that showed up commonly. Lot's of engines have quirks, gas or diesel. And the pump issue on the 6.2L was not unusual; many big truck places had, and still have, 'pump shops' to address mechanical injection pump wear. My diesel ownership cost experience has been fine, IMHO.

After thinking about this some more, I can kinda see that Pascamp could have consistent issue with diesels, but IMHO it is not in the diesels, but in the operators. One thing about these modern boosted diesels: they are so powerful that they can really put a massive load on everything. And all the EPA emission crap and the new electronic bus communications expense just adds on. I can easily see that if they are handed off to work crew members to drive for work, then they are going to be over-stressed/abused, gas or diesel. The untrained driver just knows if he pushes down the go-pedal more, and the truck goes faster, then that is good... especially when it is after 3PM on Friday and it is time to get the weekend going. Load up the big excavator, and put the pedal to the metal to get back to the yard ASAP! To hell with the trannie fluid over-temp alarms!

I bet that most individual owners treat their own personal trucks a TON better than the standard work crew guy. And I think that is the difference here. Individual owners are going to have a lot better ownership experience, and lower ownership costs, than a business owner who hands over the trucks to guys who don't have any $$ stake in keeping the trucks up. And it is not that the gas trucks are going to be treated any better.... I think his point is that the repair costs are a lot less when crap happens. But he is applying that experience too broadly to include all owners IMHO.

In my business, NOBODY gets away with crap on the job, including 'tool abuse'. But we are small, and I or my son are always on the job with anyone. With a larger company, that is not as likely to be the case, especially construction where workers come and go more, and staffs expand and contract a lot. I have seen the cell tower companies tend to stick with diesels; but they travel long distance, and their crew make-ups tend to be a lot more stable and there is always 1-2 very responsible crew leaders at each job; they have to be with all the danger involved.

So, I can see both sides of this.
 
Up on the north slope almost all diesel's, mostly Ford's, and chev's couple dodges mixed in but very few gas. You wanna talk about abuse. You'll find everything from -55 to never being out of 4 wheel drive.
 
Just kind of an aside.... I now use some sort of injector lube regularly after speaking with a few owner-operator truckers a couple of years back. They said that once the low sulphur diesel came out, they experienced much higher rates of injector failure. Seems like when the sulphur was reduced, a lot of the lubes for the injectors were mandated out by the EPA.

Hmmmm... have an untrained crew add injector lube at fill-ups? Probably not... LOL who knows what would get dumped in there! Just another issue for trucks used by 'less responsible' drivers that may tilt the equation in favor of gas over diesel.
 
I have an 03 Cummins Dodge. 4x4 full box dually. Manual 6 speed trans. I have received rubbings from the Ford and Chevy boys about Diesel and to dual's. "Calling them training wheels" But my race trailer weight over 10,000 lbs with no car inside. Their trucks are not even rated to pull out of my driveway. Would be fun to see how long their ECO blast or what ever you call it. BB chev or Hemi for that matter would last lugging my heavy *** loads around? IT's not even fair comparison. I now see why Ford nad GM cried foul when Dodge introduced the Cummins Heavy Duty. It probably should be rated medium duty. I did have to replace a front hub. I needed bigger tools to even attempt. I have a friend who works at a school bus depot. I saw a 5.9 Cummins a 7.3 Powerstroke and 6.5 Duramax sitting side be side. The Cummins was nearly 200 lbs heavier. Sorry boys. Duramax and Powerstrokes are gas engines converted to diesel. The Cummins? Designed to be a diesel. Now things may have changed in 15 years. But in the beginning? No contest!
 
I have an 03 Cummins Dodge. 4x4 full box dually. Manual 6 speed trans. I have received rubbings from the Ford and Chevy boys about Diesel and to dual's. "Calling them training wheels" But my race trailer weight over 10,000 lbs with no car inside. Their trucks are not even rated to pull out of my driveway. Would be fun to see how long their ECO blast or what ever you call it. BB chev or Hemi for that matter would last lugging my heavy *** loads around? IT's not even fair comparison. I now see why Ford nad GM cried foul when Dodge introduced the Cummins Heavy Duty. It probably should be rated medium duty. I did have to replace a front hub. I needed bigger tools to even attempt. I have a friend who works at a school bus depot. I saw a 5.9 Cummins a 7.3 Powerstroke and 6.5 Duramax sitting side be side. The Cummins was nearly 200 lbs heavier. Sorry boys. Duramax and Powerstrokes are gas engines converted to diesel. The Cummins? Designed to be a diesel. Now things may have changed in 15 years. But in the beginning? No contest!
That's a stupid statement, the 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4 powerstroke where built by international for medium and light duty trucks. The Ford 6.7 was Fords first ever totally in house purpose built Diesel, fords most tested engine ever I might add. The Chevrolet 6.6 Diesel is built by Isuzu, they've been building the same variant of that engine for years in there medium duty trucks overseas. The cummins 5.9 was built by cummins not Dodge, they didnt interduce **** they just made a deal with cummins, for several things from marine to Ford F-550's yes they put them in Fords even generators. So before you go flappin your lips about the power only your truck has remember the new ones have twice the torque and horse power of your 03, the fact of the matter is none of them are converted gas engines and they are all very well designed and powerful Diesels trucks.
 
I have had 2. Both Dodge, one a 2000 6 speed manual 24v 5.9 3500 bigger injectors and edge box. Awesome truck one clutch at 135k and two lift pumps. The second 2015 6.7 3500 with Aisin 6 speed auto that only has 9.5k but other than recalls no issues. Both were good rides. The current 2015 is much stronger though! Will pull everything I have at the same time! Both have or had 4:10 gears.

I would not buy a truck with hauling in mind that was not a diesel!
 
I gotta get me a good coal roller for all the damn bicyclist that think they own the road .
 
I do not know a gas motor truck that will pull a 14k 5th wheel and if I could mount a strong enough hitch, my 24’enclosed trailer and Barracuda and for good measure 2 large Seadoos. That 2015 6.7 would though and at 70 mph!

Not sure why people rip all the def and catylitic stuff off. I see no need to as it does not really hurt the performance of these wonderful Cummins!
 
The 40’ DP coach is a 400Hp Cummins 8.9 ISL with Allison 6 speed auto, no idea what gear but hauls the mail as well, with or without the big trailer. It pushes 30k in weight. I have no idea why people get 36’ units with Triton V10 gas motors. All I know is I am blowing by them running down the interstate @1600 rpm!
 
I noticed one thing all you guys who love diesels have in common...you all own old ones. Give a newer one a whirl. You might change your tune.
As someone who truck pulled diesels and worked for not only Cummins but a pro-pulling team, I completely agree. Any diesel from any manufacturer built after about 2008-2010 when the DPFs and Def crap came into the scene are about useless. Sure power is insane these days, but they’re getting **** for mileage, ask @Mopar Tim what he got with his new Ford last year going to carlisle vs my 89 that gets nearly 70 percent better mileage , or the 99 or the 05 farm trucks we have. All get better mileage and reliability than the new stuff
 
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Not sure why people rip all the def and catylitic stuff off. I see no need to as it does not really hurt the performance of these wonderful Cummins!
Bull. I worked for CUMMINS. In both engineering and test cell 1. Without all the emissions crap, the 6.7 itself, got nearly 30 percent better power, and 60 percent better fuel mileage. Those DPFs SUCK I MEAN SUCK down fuel. It’s how they work, they burn diesel fuel
 
Matt, are you sure about that 26mpg? Even the pre-emission engines didn't get that with tuning. All the newer ones I've owned and know of can maybe eek out 18mpg empty and behaving. Most guys I know are getting 16ish.
Our 89 gets 22 unloaded. The 05 averages 24 Mpg unloaded and 15 loaded with a 11,000 pound John Deere and the trailer. 6 speed, Nv5600, southbend clutch and 3.73 rear gears.
 
Bull. I worked for CUMMINS. In both engineering and test cell 1. Without all the emissions crap, the 6.7 itself, got nearly 30 percent better power, and 60 percent better fuel mileage. Those DPFs SUCK I MEAN SUCK down fuel. It’s how they work, they burn diesel fuel

I agree my MPG went way down from the 5.9 but the overall power level and comfort went up! I will keep this 2015 for many years as it is paid for with 9.5k on it and if Trump dumps the requirements I will consider pulling it, otherwise the extra fuel does not bother me to much for the performance it gives! DEF is not breaking me either.
 
The coach’s 8.9 is pre def and gets about 10mpg. 8 loaded with the trailer. Not far off from the 2015 6.7 3500 with a full load on its back.
 
I agree my MPG went way down from the 5.9 but the overall power level and comfort went up! I will keep this 2015 for many years as it is paid for with 9.5k on it and if Trump dumps the requirements I will consider pulling it, otherwise the extra fuel does not bother me to much for the performance it gives! DEF is not breaking me either.
Maybe but most people buy diesel trucks for better mileage over comparable gas trucks, take that away and drop it to levels gas trucks were getting in the 70s and most wont like it. And wait until you have to replace that very expensive DPF, it’s nearly 4 grand and whether it’s covered under warranty or not depends on the inspector, majority of the time, it’s a “wear item” and this not covered.
 
The coach’s 8.9 is pre def and gets about 10mpg. 8 loaded with the trailer. Not far off from the 2015 6.7 3500 with a full load on its back.
Coach? As in RV? That’s not even an apples to oranges comparison. That’s more like an apple to an onion comparison. Completely different than a pick up
 
Maybe but most people buy diesel trucks for better mileage over comparable gas trucks, take that away and drop it to levels gas trucks were getting in the 70s and most wont like it. And wait until you have to replace that very expensive DPF, it’s nearly 4 grand and whether it’s covered under warranty or not depends on the inspector, majority of the time, it’s a “wear item” and this not covered.

Not me.

I want pure pulling power which makes hauling more comfortable. No commercial use just pleasure!
 
Coach? As in RV? That’s not even an apples to oranges comparison. That’s more like an apple to an onion comparison. Completely different than a pick up

Relevant to Cummins though and the whole gas/diesel comparison.
 
Relevant to Cummins though and the whole gas/diesel comparison.
An C series Cummins is completely different than a B series, not only in size but purpose and tuning. Not relevant at all
 
My mileage isn't that great either, but we need to put it into prospective, mines a dually so knock off a couple MPG there anybody that's owned both know's that. Second the interstates around me are all 80 MPH, I get 13+ at 80 that's empty, when I get to the 65 highways I get 15-16 MPG, 55 18-19, my truck scales out right at 10,000 lbs empty, that's with some fuel in the 60 gallon slip tank and the 5th wheel hitch and big *** front bumper. The older single wheel diesels are typically 7500-8000 lbs. So considering ya the mileage is worse mostly because of the emission but I get 11 MPG pulling my 5er at 80 that's not bad at all in my book. Yes i pull it at 80.
 
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