Disc Brake Hold Off Valve

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ir3333

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'69 Dart Kelsey Hayes with the second hold off valve in the rear brake line.
...anybody have a diagram off which is in and which is out?

my valve has an R on one port suggesting 'rear' but my service manual shows it to be the inlet?
 
Actually... i do think that HOLD off vavle is used if front valve is DISTRIBUTION BLOCK ... if front valve is PROPORTIOING valve ... then hold off valve is NOT needed for 4 piston KH systems .
I installed mine an cannot remember .. i would have to look ... but can't till weekend
 
There is a good picture on here some place on here showing the valve but I can't find it. I found it when I was looking for a picture of the driver's side frame rail mounting bracket.

View attachment PR104b.jpg

Mopar Valve Notes:
This item is an exact reproduction disc brake hold off valve. This valve is used in conjunction with the distribution block. This valve was used to hold off pressure to the rear brakes so the front brakes would go on a split second before. This was also considered a correction valve for the 1970 model year. During extreme braking conditions, this valve prevented the car from getting sideways and evened out braking loads. This valve was used on all Mopar passenger cars from 1967-70 with the disc brake option and high performance engines. We have also seen this on some drum brake applications if you have a 2 piece front to rear brake line this is the valve that connects the two pieces.
Here is a picture of one on a B-body frame rail.​
 
Tx Guys,now i can install it correctly the first time.
..if you have a 1969 factory service manual, fig. 20 pg 5-44
is wrong.
 
Anyone is welcome to do what they want on their own car.
However, the original factory information is quite clear -

Implementation of the combined distribution block and proportioning valves began in 1970. That did not change the fact that fixed caliper equiped a-bodies did not get metering valves. see here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/274/page11.htm
and a chart here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/274/page09.htm

Remained true in '72 even though some other vehicles had revamp in the hydraulic controls. See Pictorial overview of '72 here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/293/page13.htm

Of course you could experiment with holding off the front brakes especially if they are locking up on icey roads. But I'd look at the lining choice, something hanging up or other reason why they might be a little too grabby before altering the factory design.

edit:
Inline Tube's description is incorrect. For the era we're talking about, Chrysler used a proportioning valve going to the rear drum brakes. It does more than just delay or hold off the fluid, it keeps the pressure to the rear proportionally lower than the pressure to the front calipers. This is not simply Chrysler's terminology. See for example Fred Puhn's Brake Handbook, or the McGraw Hill Automotive Technician's Handbook.
 
Anyone is welcome to do what they want on their own car.
However, the original factory information is quite clear -

Implementation of the combined distribution block and proportioning valves began in 1970. That did not change the fact that fixed caliper equiped a-bodies did not get metering valves. see here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/274/page11.htm
and a chart here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/274/page09.htm

Remained true in '72 even though some other vehicles had revamp in the hydraulic controls. See Pictorial overview of '72 here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/293/page13.htm

Of course you could experiment with holding off the front brakes especially if they are locking up on icey roads. But I'd look at the lining choice, something hanging up or other reason why they might be a little too grabby before altering the factory design.

edit:
Inline Tube's description is incorrect. For the era we're talking about, Chrysler used a proportioning valve going to the rear drum brakes. It does more than just delay or hold off the fluid, it keeps the pressure to the rear proportionally lower than the pressure to the front calipers. This is not simply Chrysler's terminology. See for example Fred Puhn's Brake Handbook, or the McGraw Hill Automotive Technician's Handbook.


I am lost on what you are saying. My factory '68 Plymouth service manual clearly shows a separate valve (pictured on pages 5-55 and 5-56) being used with the Kelsey Hayes disc brakes. The valve pictured in my book has one line in and one line out. On page 5- 72 (Kelsey Hayes Disc Brake) the "proportioning valve location" is "Left Sill"

The valve in my book is shaped different then the Texas shaped valve.
 

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I think This is the correct orientation for 69 disc/drum cars. My car is still gone to confirm. I did not take the strap off the old valve when removed. You hole location for the screw should confirm the correct orientation.
 
Metering valve was installed inline to front brakes ... if i recall ... hold off valve to rear brakes ...
 
69383..
..i think you have hold off valve upside down.
the hold off valve inlet is 7/16 24 and the outlet to the rear brakes is 3/8 24 which is standard i think.
 
I am lost on what you are saying. My factory '68 Plymouth service manual clearly shows a separate valve (pictured on pages 5-55 and 5-56) being used with the Kelsey Hayes disc brakes. The valve pictured in my book has one line in and one line out. On page 5- 72 (Kelsey Hayes Disc Brake) the "proportioning valve location" is "Left Sill"

The valve in my book is shaped different then the Texas shaped valve.
OK. Not sure where I lost you, but let me try to answer.

Yes. We agree. All disk brake a-bodies up to Jan. 1970 had a seperate proportioning valve from distribution block.

The proportioning valve was on the frame rail, at least by 1967 model year.

IMO confusion is created by calling these parts the wrong name, and when people don't understand the function. Then people can end up putting the wrong parts in the wrong place. Inline should not be describing a proportioning valve as a hold off. That's a different function and used for a different purpose as Chrysler reminded its techs in that page linked in my previous post.

I thought the OP was probably asking about a proportioning valve, and that's the very first illustration I provided. Just in case he was not, or he didn't know he may have been considering a metering valve, I provided the second link.

It definately is hard to find good pictures of the various blocks, valves and where they go. There is an OK picture on page 5-47 of the '67 Plymouth Service Manual. It shows the brass proportioning valve on the rail (sill) being tested.

Oddly, the '68 Plymouth shop manual shows a cast iron prop valve. (page 5-47.) Pages 5-55 and 56 are the Bendix system which continued to use a cast iron prop valve. However, they used the same illustration. Maybe an accident, or maybe simply a part of the decision to combine the K-H and Bendix Master Cylinder service information (starting on page 5-62). Too bad they didn't provide the level of detail given for the Bud Master Cylinder and hydraulics.

To be clear, the early Kelsey Hayes equiped cars did use a cast proportioning valve. It was very similar to the ones used on Mustangs and Corvettes except it was not extrnally adjustable. There's a picture here
http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/219/Page06.htm
By '67 it looks like Chrysler switched to the smaller brass valve shown in my very first link.
Also here: http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/233/page06.htm

Some people reading this may wonder after seeing the above picture from 1966, if the proportioning valve must go after the distribution block. It's hard to see but the MC line does go down to a block. Then the line to the rear wheel cylinders is routed to the prop valve.

In 1967 dual resevoir master cylinders were used and with them a 'safety switch' in the distribution block. Inside the distribution block, the safety switch turns on if there is an imbalance in pressure between the front brake and rear brake feeds from the master cylinder. That's why even with dual resevoir, the prop valve goes after the distribution block.
 
So the valve in the 68 Plymouth manual showing the Kelsey Hayes is the wrong picture? I gather the 69 manual shows the Texas shape valve? What about the 67 manual? I am trying to get a full understanding of this set up.
 
from my '69 Dart shop manual.
you can see the inlet and outlet contradictions between the 2 illustrations..
 

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..and that appears to be oriented the same as the one in your B body illustration.
 
I agree, Figure 20 of the Dodge Manual is wrong. edit. The inlet side may be correct but the outlet is was drawn in the wrong spot.

So the valve in the 68 Plymouth manual showing the Kelsey Hayes is the wrong picture?
Might have been a goof or might have been good enough for a guy doing normal service. But yea. Take a look at the picture number in the lower right corner for pressure checking and then compare it to the picture for the Bendix. Its the same picture. I like the Master Tech series because it help fills in many of the missing pieces not in the service manuals and bulletins.

Here's the '67 Plymouth Service Manual, Kelsey Hayes and then Bendix
 

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69383..
..i think you have hold off valve upside down.
the hold off valve inlet is 7/16 24 and the outlet to the rear brakes is 3/8 24 which is standard i think.

Went back and looked at the new lines and valve. The inlet is larger than the outlet so yes the pic I posted is 180 degrees out.
 
got an answer to this question from Marc at "in Line Tube"
The 3/8 is the outlet and the 7/16" is the inlet on the rear brake valve for the '69 model Mopars.
...you are correct in your last post 69383,tx guys.
 
Many of the FSM pics and Chrysler parts book pics are incorrect. They where meant to be used as reference only and are not always correct by year/model/exact part application. This can be seen in many linkage pieces they show E-Body consoles with A or B-Body shifters etc.
 
NOW that we have this resolved ... if you don't mind.. does anybody know where you can get the square hold down bracket for the HOLD OFF valve to rear brakes ?...
 
I have been hunting for that bracket also and have never found a source. I have a feeling that it is something that I will have to make.

It looks very simple to make.
 

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