distributer reluctor air-gap check?
- Thread starter pjc360
- Start date
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i have called don and he said the issue was my carburetor and tried selling me a 500 dollar quickfuel carburetor.
I think this problem is in the distributer its self. But i will call him and try telling him again that i think it's his distributer.
I think this problem is in the distributer its self. But i will call him and try telling him again that i think it's his distributer.
I just need to figure out what in a distributer can cause a miss fire at idle, my number 5 plug was black soaked in fuel as if it wasnt firing, then my number 3 plug was soaked in fuel as if it wasnt firing.
It dont matter if the vaccum advance is on manifold or ported vaccum it still misses out the exhaust while its idling.
Wiring is correct and brand new, i have triple checked that. Plugs are brand new dont even have 5 miles on them. Plug wires are good, i have ohm checked every one they are 450 ohms resistance per foot. I have a spark plug wire tester that you rub on the wire and it lights up when the plug wire is working, i dont know if this helps, but when i run the plug wire tester over the coil wire it lights up bright and stays lit up and then when i put the plug wire tester over the other plug wires they will make the tester light up here and there but not consistently like the coil wire.
It dont matter if the vaccum advance is on manifold or ported vaccum it still misses out the exhaust while its idling.
Wiring is correct and brand new, i have triple checked that. Plugs are brand new dont even have 5 miles on them. Plug wires are good, i have ohm checked every one they are 450 ohms resistance per foot. I have a spark plug wire tester that you rub on the wire and it lights up when the plug wire is working, i dont know if this helps, but when i run the plug wire tester over the coil wire it lights up bright and stays lit up and then when i put the plug wire tester over the other plug wires they will make the tester light up here and there but not consistently like the coil wire.
That is because a plug fires once after the other 7 fire. The coil wire sends the spark for all 8 plugs. coil- coil wire-top of the cap- to the rotor-to each plug wire. I'm thinking you need to try a known good carb.
It's not my spark plugs, they are brand new right out of the box autolite 3923's. It's not my ballast resistor, it's not my ignition wiring, it's all brand new and wired correctly. It's not my spark plug wires. It's not my carburetor it's brand new too.
It's not my balancer reading the timing wrong because i did top dead center check on the number 1 cylinder last night with a piston stop.
What else does that leave me with? the ecu and the distributer... correct?
It's not my balancer reading the timing wrong because i did top dead center check on the number 1 cylinder last night with a piston stop.
What else does that leave me with? the ecu and the distributer... correct?
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
take the #5 plug wire off. switch it with another wire off the other bank.
KitCarlson
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the delay. Been putting up hay.
About the timing light test. A clamp-on timing light, connected to coil wire will blink the light for each spark. Do this only at idle because the rate is 8 times what a single plug would be. Shine the light on something, you should see rhythmic blinks. If you hear the miss, and a skip in the blink at the same time, it may be an ignition problem. If you do find a skip in the blink, then try to move the light to the individual plug wire, and identify the cylinder.
Most clamp-on timing lights are triggered by the spark current. They will not trigger, for example someone swaps vacuum hose for spark plug wire. It will still fire for a shorted plug or wire, so is not fool proof.
An Ohm meter can be used to measure resistance of plug wires. I leave cables on the cap then measure from inner cap terminal to plug tip. I do this whenever I do a tuneup, and install wires. I have found problems with new wires.
I think you problem is someplace else. Could swapped plug wires, vacuum leak who knows what.
About the timing light test. A clamp-on timing light, connected to coil wire will blink the light for each spark. Do this only at idle because the rate is 8 times what a single plug would be. Shine the light on something, you should see rhythmic blinks. If you hear the miss, and a skip in the blink at the same time, it may be an ignition problem. If you do find a skip in the blink, then try to move the light to the individual plug wire, and identify the cylinder.
Most clamp-on timing lights are triggered by the spark current. They will not trigger, for example someone swaps vacuum hose for spark plug wire. It will still fire for a shorted plug or wire, so is not fool proof.
An Ohm meter can be used to measure resistance of plug wires. I leave cables on the cap then measure from inner cap terminal to plug tip. I do this whenever I do a tuneup, and install wires. I have found problems with new wires.
I think you problem is someplace else. Could swapped plug wires, vacuum leak who knows what.
Well with everything "New", it is obvious that one of these items must be defective?
You didn't answer my question. I don't believe. WHAT HAPPENS to the timing when you hook / unhook the vacuum line?
You could have a distributor "phasing" problem. This is when, because of wrong parts, worn parts, some problem, causes the rotor to NOT be aligned with the distributor contacts when the spark fires
THIS CAN BE CAUSED as simply as a wrong polarity pickup, IE if it is magnetised backwards, was assembled wrong, or has had the connector removed and replaced reversed.
Google "rotor phasing"
A photo of someone with REALLY bad phasing problems
You could have a distributor "phasing" problem. This is when, because of wrong parts, worn parts, some problem, causes the rotor to NOT be aligned with the distributor contacts when the spark fires
THIS CAN BE CAUSED as simply as a wrong polarity pickup, IE if it is magnetised backwards, was assembled wrong, or has had the connector removed and replaced reversed.
Google "rotor phasing"
A photo of someone with REALLY bad phasing problems
KitCarlson
Well-Known Member
Have you checked to see if wires 3 and 5 are swapped?
Clockwise firing order 18436572 looking from top. Drivers side cylinders front to back 1 3 5 7, passenger side front to back 2 4 6 8.
How are the rest of the plugs?
sireland67
Well-Known Member
Try a different timing light to confirm readings.
Also do a compression test, I bet you have an exhust valve that is not seating.
A hotter igniton will create more cylinder pressure.
A leak down test will tell you what condition the engine is in.
Can you get rid of the miss by turning the distributor?
Also do a compression test, I bet you have an exhust valve that is not seating.
A hotter igniton will create more cylinder pressure.
A leak down test will tell you what condition the engine is in.
Can you get rid of the miss by turning the distributor?
I have already done a compression test, each cylinder was at 150 psi and im 4000 feet above sea level, so the compression test checks out nicely.
The motor cant be in that bad of shape, it dont even have 25 thousand miles on it.
Spark plugs are brand new, less then 5 miles on them. Autolite 3923's.
None of my plug wires are crossed i have them routed nicely. I will get an old cap and try and verify rotor phasing, seems like a long shot because don raves about how he phases every distributer he sells on his distributer machine. So i'd be suprised if it wasnt right? unless some dumb *** he has working for him did it.
I have tried a different light, mine is a brand new kal equip advance timing light, my friend has an ven nicer one wich is a digital dial back light.
I dont have any other plug wires to try out, but these plug wires i have are fairly new borg warner select 7mm's with the life time warranty, i have ohmchecked all of them and they come to 450 ohms of resistance per foot.
And 67dart273, what do you mean what happens when i take the vaccum line off? i have the vaccum advance on ported vaccum, so it's not seeing anything at idle.
But i did try and put it on manifold vaccum and the idle increased a little bit and then the missing out the exhaust started, thudding nd puffing out each tail pipe, then when i take the vaccum advance off of manifold vaccum and put it back on ported vaccum the missing out the exhaust still remained, so i tried increasing the idle and that made it even worse. So i think this is a distributer probblem. all sighns point to it. I might just send it back to Don at fbo systems and tell him to fix it and send it back to me for free.
The motor cant be in that bad of shape, it dont even have 25 thousand miles on it.
Spark plugs are brand new, less then 5 miles on them. Autolite 3923's.
None of my plug wires are crossed i have them routed nicely. I will get an old cap and try and verify rotor phasing, seems like a long shot because don raves about how he phases every distributer he sells on his distributer machine. So i'd be suprised if it wasnt right? unless some dumb *** he has working for him did it.
I have tried a different light, mine is a brand new kal equip advance timing light, my friend has an ven nicer one wich is a digital dial back light.
I dont have any other plug wires to try out, but these plug wires i have are fairly new borg warner select 7mm's with the life time warranty, i have ohmchecked all of them and they come to 450 ohms of resistance per foot.
And 67dart273, what do you mean what happens when i take the vaccum line off? i have the vaccum advance on ported vaccum, so it's not seeing anything at idle.
But i did try and put it on manifold vaccum and the idle increased a little bit and then the missing out the exhaust started, thudding nd puffing out each tail pipe, then when i take the vaccum advance off of manifold vaccum and put it back on ported vaccum the missing out the exhaust still remained, so i tried increasing the idle and that made it even worse. So i think this is a distributer probblem. all sighns point to it. I might just send it back to Don at fbo systems and tell him to fix it and send it back to me for free.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
just a quick question, im sorry if missed it, but has this engine ever ran good on all 8 cylinders or is this something that has recently occurred?
how would i correct the rotor phasing if indeed it is the problem? dont you need a distributer machine? And like i said before don claims to phase and curve these mopar distributers before they go out the door. but i am begining to wonder...........
Seems like i had problems the second i dropped this distributer in my engine, and it's hard to look back and blaim the distributer when you had just bought he dam thing, and it was tuned by a spos to be smart mopar guru tuning dude.
But obviously thats whats going on. and i was thinking about sending him my other distributer to phase and curve and put new pick up assembly and vaccum advance canister on it.
I just didnt think of rotor phasing being an issue because don him self told me on the phone that he would phase and curve the distributer that i was buying from him on his distributer machine. I will get an old cap and just make sure that it isnt that. thinking about pulling the distributer and seein if i can see a tweaked wire inside it or something.
Seems like i had problems the second i dropped this distributer in my engine, and it's hard to look back and blaim the distributer when you had just bought he dam thing, and it was tuned by a spos to be smart mopar guru tuning dude.
But obviously thats whats going on. and i was thinking about sending him my other distributer to phase and curve and put new pick up assembly and vaccum advance canister on it.
I just didnt think of rotor phasing being an issue because don him self told me on the phone that he would phase and curve the distributer that i was buying from him on his distributer machine. I will get an old cap and just make sure that it isnt that. thinking about pulling the distributer and seein if i can see a tweaked wire inside it or something.
I'm thinking about scabbng together my older mopar distributer that has the mallory adjustable mechanical advance mechanism inside of it, thinking about putting it back together with the best looking pick up coil and assembly i have and the bst vaccum advance canister i have and seeing if the original distributer makes it go away or not.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
thats what i would do. it cant hurt to try it.
As I said, rotor phase problems can be as simple as having the pickup wires reversed. Was any of the wiring chopped up?
You can easily check it. Google as I suggested. Take an old cap and drill/ break out a window in the cap where you can see one of the terminals. It does not HAVE to be no 1. Hook your timing light to whatever wire hooks up near the window in the cap. Aim your timing light at the hole, and you can SEE where the rotor is firing. Experiment with vacuum advance to see if the phasing changes/ gets worse, etch
Here's a vid. Some of this does not apply because YOU CAN NOT adjust it as this distributor can. The last of the vid where the rotor is evenly changing a little ahead, and a little behind the contact is showing proper actuation of the vacuum advance.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWMlNwGW0tM"]MSD Tech: Rotor Phasing - YouTube[/ame]
You can easily check it. Google as I suggested. Take an old cap and drill/ break out a window in the cap where you can see one of the terminals. It does not HAVE to be no 1. Hook your timing light to whatever wire hooks up near the window in the cap. Aim your timing light at the hole, and you can SEE where the rotor is firing. Experiment with vacuum advance to see if the phasing changes/ gets worse, etch
Here's a vid. Some of this does not apply because YOU CAN NOT adjust it as this distributor can. The last of the vid where the rotor is evenly changing a little ahead, and a little behind the contact is showing proper actuation of the vacuum advance.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWMlNwGW0tM"]MSD Tech: Rotor Phasing - YouTube[/ame]
I'm proud to announce i finally figured out what this was!!!
I scabbed together my old mopar distributer with an old reluctor and pick up assembly that i had laying around and the miss was gone!
So i decided to take a close look at the new distributer that i bought from don at fbo systems and guess what! The Blue wire running to the pick up coil in the distributer was caught under the reluctor and the wire was tore open, the bare wire from the blue wire was rubbing right against the reluctor!!
I dont know how i didnt catch that earlier but holy crap did that ever cause a miss, and only at idle? i dont understand that, but that also explains why it only happened sometimes and then sometimes it would go away, i bet sometimes it rubbed right on the reluctor and sometimes it didnt.
So i taped up the bare wire on the blue wire, then i taped the orange and blue wire inside the distributer tightly together that way it wont happen again and if it does the reluctor will have to tear thru a thick wrapping of good electric tape before it can tear open one of the wires.
After i taped it up i dropped the distributer inn, set my initial timing to 14 degrees and 32 degrees total and i set my vaccum advance on manifold vaccum and adjusted the vaccum advance to add another 10 degrees of timing at idle, fired it up and i had to tune the idle air mixture screws a little bit, but i drove it around for about a half hour.
When i got back to my shop i checked the timing to make sure it stayed, then i sat back and listend to the exhaust for about 5 minutes just to make sure that miss didnt appear again and its gone.
I never would of guessed that the pickup wire would e caught under the reluctor and ripped open to where bare wire was hitting the reluctor... But thats what was causing the problem, why was that causing certain plugs to not fire?
By the way i drilled a hole in an old cap threw it on and the rotor is phased perfectly on dons distributer.
I scabbed together my old mopar distributer with an old reluctor and pick up assembly that i had laying around and the miss was gone!
So i decided to take a close look at the new distributer that i bought from don at fbo systems and guess what! The Blue wire running to the pick up coil in the distributer was caught under the reluctor and the wire was tore open, the bare wire from the blue wire was rubbing right against the reluctor!!
I dont know how i didnt catch that earlier but holy crap did that ever cause a miss, and only at idle? i dont understand that, but that also explains why it only happened sometimes and then sometimes it would go away, i bet sometimes it rubbed right on the reluctor and sometimes it didnt.
So i taped up the bare wire on the blue wire, then i taped the orange and blue wire inside the distributer tightly together that way it wont happen again and if it does the reluctor will have to tear thru a thick wrapping of good electric tape before it can tear open one of the wires.
After i taped it up i dropped the distributer inn, set my initial timing to 14 degrees and 32 degrees total and i set my vaccum advance on manifold vaccum and adjusted the vaccum advance to add another 10 degrees of timing at idle, fired it up and i had to tune the idle air mixture screws a little bit, but i drove it around for about a half hour.
When i got back to my shop i checked the timing to make sure it stayed, then i sat back and listend to the exhaust for about 5 minutes just to make sure that miss didnt appear again and its gone.
I never would of guessed that the pickup wire would e caught under the reluctor and ripped open to where bare wire was hitting the reluctor... But thats what was causing the problem, why was that causing certain plugs to not fire?
By the way i drilled a hole in an old cap threw it on and the rotor is phased perfectly on dons distributer.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
wow finally !! lol , glad you got it man , great news
no ****, and ya it came that way from don because i opened the box that his distributer came inn, and seen that it had the ugly brown distributer cap on it wich does not match my engine so i took it off and put my wells gold cap on it thats a dark grey and then i dropped it in my engine set the timing and that was that.
I guess i should have looked at it better when i first got it, but ya, the blue pick up wire got trapped under the reluctor some how and ripped the wire open and bare wire was hitting the buttom of the reluctor.
Hopefully that dont ever happen again because that was a hair puller, i think i grew a couple grey hairs cause of that, been chasing that down for so long, thankfully i didnt spend a whole lot of money ryin to solve it, i spent 20 bucks on new plugs and thats all the cash i spent trying to figure this out.
If anyone here is running a mopar distributer
I guess i should have looked at it better when i first got it, but ya, the blue pick up wire got trapped under the reluctor some how and ripped the wire open and bare wire was hitting the buttom of the reluctor.
Hopefully that dont ever happen again because that was a hair puller, i think i grew a couple grey hairs cause of that, been chasing that down for so long, thankfully i didnt spend a whole lot of money ryin to solve it, i spent 20 bucks on new plugs and thats all the cash i spent trying to figure this out.
If anyone here is running a mopar distributer
sorry i was going to say anyone here running a mopar distributer, when you have your distributer cap just take the extra 5 seconds to look at the pick up wires and make sure they are not tangled up under the reluctor. it will save you a huge head ache.
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