Distributor, distributor drive gear / Timing

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walkerquad

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I have a 72 Plymouth scamp (106,000 mils) V8 318 5.2 L (bone stock) that had been sitting for 16 years when I got it.
(The vehicle ran fine when it was parked 16 years earlier.)
I have been working on it for the past three years as funding $$$ has become available.
New fuel tank,
fuel line,
fuel pump,
fuel filter,
new / rebuilt Carter carburetor. OEM 2bbl

Here's my issue, I got her up and running beautifully. With new points, condenser, distributor cap, rotor, plug wires and plugs. Had the timing set, and everything was running beautifully. I even drove her into town a few times. The only issue was kind of like a misfire every now and then at 65 MPH or so. (like a hick-up or air bubble in the line) about one seconds long. (No big deal)

Then one day she was getting very hard to start / wouldn't start. Backfiring, Spit'n & sputtering like she was running on four cylinders or had bad gas. (As if the timing was off)

I called a Mopar guy over to take a look at her, due to she was stranded in the middle of my driveway now and wouldn't start.
He said "hop in and crank it up". I said "she's not gonna to start".
And sure enough she started right up. (He made a small adjustment on the distributor.)
Adjusting the timing.
Then he told me that "this particular year model has Teflon / plastic teeth on the upper pulley / gear, and sometimes they will start chipping off allowing the timing chain to get sloppy and throw my timing off."
So, to make a long story short. I replace the timing chain and pulleys with a new set.

She will start up and run. (but not very good) I tried to set the timing, (with a timing light) but the timing mark is nowhere in sight.
This leads me to believe that my problem might be the (distributor) / distributor drive gear.
I have a lot of up and down play on the main distributor shaft.

I have NOT pulled the distributor, because I don't want to miss this project further.:banghead:
 
put a 1&1/4" socket/short extension/breaker bar on the big crank bolt & hand bump the eng till the timing marks are 15 BTDC. That'll put you either on #1 or #6. Turn the dist slightly CW till the points close then turn back against rotation (CCW) till the points JUST open (use a test light or ohmmeter. That'll get the initial close enough to start
 
Im no expert but what i can do is offer a suggestion. one morning on my way to work, i was driving my 73 dart, it would not get up to speed as fast as it had been. got on the freeway and she started to pop, spit, and sputter just like you said. got off and took the street. petal to the floor going roughly 20mph. pulled into a public parking garage and struggled to climb the hill. parked in first spot i seen and she died. sat there for almost a month before i verified top dead center and seen where the rotar was in relation to plug wire 1. needless to say, my distributor skipped a couple teeth on the oil pump shaft gear (or what ever you wanna call it), throwing time off. the collar on the shaft below the dist body was plastic and missing. so the intermediate shaft allowed it and the drive gear to lift. either by me pulling the rotor a month earlier or just normal driving.

i would say, hoping all is well with the cam and crank, mark plug wire 1 on cap with a mark on the body, verify top dead center ( i did with my finger in the no. 1 plug hole to feel pressure, then used my wifes mazda antenna to watch for when it starts to move down, using a socket wrench on crank bolt.) dampener mark was at 0 on timing tab. pull dist cap and see where to plug wire 1. i went by the book and turned the drive gear so it points to front drivers manifold bolt. reinstalled dist with rotor pointed toward mark made on body. put it all back and see if she starts. if at TDC you don't see the dampener mark, it may have dried and slipped.
 
Your friend is probably right. IF you know where you set the timing, before you "change much" check the points setting FIRST. IF the points are wearing shut (did you lube the rubbing block?) check the dwell. The points wearing down will RETARD the timing.

Then, after resetting the points if necessary, check the timing. IF IT will not run, check the timing "on the starter." If it's RETARDED significantly, the timing chain has "slipped."

Take a socket, pull the cap. rotate the engine back and forth until the rotor "doesn't quite move." This will give you an idea of the "slop" in the chain. READ YOUR factory manual. This has a procedure in chapter 9, the engine section.

Download a free service manual here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=244981

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

DO NOT retime the engine if it has CHANGED significantly from your original setting, until you have reasoned WHY. All this will do is to cause the engine to run, and you don't know WHY it changed. FIND OUT why the timing changed. There are only a few reasons:

1........The timing chain may have slipped

2........The points screw is loose, or you did not lube the cam / rubbing block

3.......You did not get the distributor clamp bolt tight and the dist. moved.

4.......In very rare cases, something could break up in the distributor usually the mechanical advance
 
I would also check the points first. Make SURE they are still where you set them. Use a dwell meter, NOT feeler gauges. A feeler gauge can easily be inserted crooked and get your setting incorrect. Once you verify the points are correct, or get them corrected, the next thing I would check is the harmonic balancer. It is very possible it has slipped if you cannot find the timing mark with a light. You should do as advised in an earlier post and time the engine up. Remove #1 plug. Using a socket and ratchet on the crank bolt, turn the engine until you feel compression coming up in the #1 plug hole with your finger. As you feel compression, look down at the balancer and you should see the timing mark coming up. Line the mark up on the "zero" on the timing cover.

Now, if the timing mark is still nowhere in sight and you have compression coming up against your finger, remove your finger and get a long screwdriver and insert it in #1 spark plug hole. Continue to gently turn the engine while noting the screwdriver being pushed out of the spark plug hole. Turn it slowly so that when the screwdriver STOPS being pushed up you will know it. Take note of where the timing mark is on the balancer. If it is not aligned with the zero on the timing cover, it has slipped and needs replacing.
 
I always use synthetic disc brake grease on the points cam and block these days. It seems to last forever, works better than the original stuff and is one of the most amazing lubricants used on cars today. Really.
 
I've seen the points issue 273 and rusty described many times but have one other question for you. When you installed the new timing chain and gear set are you absolutely positive you got the dots on the gears aligned correctly? I use a straight ruler or straight edge to eyeball it with cause sometimes it's hard to tell with the naked eye. Another thing, are you disconnecting the vacuum advance when you try checking the timing? If not you need to
 
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Well guys as it turns out after I pulled the Distributor and the oil pump driveshaft out the camshaft gear is jacked up. (As well as a few teeth on the oil pump driveshaft)
So now it looks like I'll be replacing the camshaft. (Sad face)
Thanks for all your input.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=1714737970&stc=1&d=1405915797
 
If I were you, I would endeavor to find out the cause. If you simply throw parts at it, you may end up with the same problem.
 
..........Might be as simple as a worn out intermediate shaft bushing. This goes in the block, and is what the dist. gear / shaft rides in
 
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