Robbie2734
Lambcharger
Remember 1929, the whole world was in the dumper then! Which led to a small fracas called WW2. I'm with you, we need industry and manufacturing, I hope we come out of this with a strong auto industry!
Do We Owe Them
- Thread starter mikedevore
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Remember 1929, the whole world was in the dumper then! Which led to a small fracas called WW2. I'm with you, we need industry and manufacturing, I hope we come out of this with a strong auto industry!
Thats what started the first two world wars.
green1
Well-Known Member
The democrats and the uaw are in charge. Learn to like foreign cars.
briankaplan
greenduster
This all started back in the 70s when we first started buying
all that stuff from Japan and China. Now we are paying for it.
all that stuff from Japan and China. Now we are paying for it.
Max340
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why you'd say this, both have a vested interest in keeping domestic automakers up and running.
I've read these replies and remarks about lazy and overpaid workers and I think it's a shame that people actually wish failure on anyone, especially fellow Americans. I've been in the aerospace side of the UAW when I was at Bell Helicopter and I sure wish someone would have given me directions to one of those jobs where I didn't have to work but could still pull down almost $30 an hour. Where's snopes when you need them? We had to produce. We were expected to work with management to accomplish production goals. We had to adhere to company policies on everything from attendance to conduct to adherance with federal regulations. Someone please show me where the liine to the gravy train begins.
And I know people who work at the Arlington GM plant here in Texas and it's not sunshine and daffodils. Assembly line work is fast paced, but also repetitive to the point of sheer boredom. You have to have more than just basic mechanical apptitude to work on the line, and better than average mechanical skills. It's hard work and they're worth every penny they make. I've done it. In fact, I don't want to do it ever again, no matter how much they pay me. The repitition was just too much to deal with.
You have to keep in mind that when you read about the high hourly wages paid to these workers, you're talking about the most senior people who have been with the company for 25 plus years and have climbed up the pay scale over a period of years. New hires don't get that kind of money, neither do people in mid career. I've been there. I know what I'm talking about. It took me eight years to get to the top of the scale when I was with Delta Airlines. And under the new contracts, people who have been hired in within the past five to ten years will never see the kind of money their older peers are making. As the older generation retires, they will be replaced with lower paid workers who will receive fewer benefits. All the cost cutting that people want to see has already been negotiated into current contracts. Your average GM worker at the Arlington plant makes between $14 - $17 an hour, and probably will not go much higher in the future except for cost of living raises.
All of this is just as true in an auto assembly plant as it was in helicopter component assembly. The lazy get weeded out, just like anywhere else, but like anywere else I've ever worked, lazy workers slip through the cracks. Any argumnt a person can make against union workers, I can make the exact same counter argument and point out the exact same personality types at non union shops. Are there lazy workers in non union shops? yes. Are there workers in non union shops who make you wonder who they knew or how they got the job? Yes. Are there workers in non union shops who have absolutely no business being there because of their lack of skill? Yes. This can go on and on and on forever. I worked at Delta for almost 14 years and it was non union. But we had the same problems as the unionized carriers. We were also called overpaid, and I resented it then, and I resent it now. After years of contracting to third party maintenance, the airlines are beginning to realize we were worth every nickel they paid us.
We rolled overhauled 757s out the door every 21 days, and that was with engineering packages completed and with mods to the pylons, and the work was done right. Overpaid? I don't think so because none of the contractors Delta has sent their overhaul work to in the past five years has come close to matching our performance. Why? Because we were Delta employees. We took pride inour work. We felt as if owned those airplanes. You don't get that from a third party contractor. And if people could look past their cynicism for a just a few minutes, they'd discover that Americans still take pride in the work of their hands. even if they are just assembly line workers.
Guys, I've worked for two unionized companies, and I never, never got to screw off and collect a check for being a slug. I did a stint at Verizon for while after leaving Delta, and that's the hardest I've ever worked. I don't know where people get some of their ideas from about lazy and overpaid union workers. That stuff was not tolerated where I worked.
End of rant.
And I know people who work at the Arlington GM plant here in Texas and it's not sunshine and daffodils. Assembly line work is fast paced, but also repetitive to the point of sheer boredom. You have to have more than just basic mechanical apptitude to work on the line, and better than average mechanical skills. It's hard work and they're worth every penny they make. I've done it. In fact, I don't want to do it ever again, no matter how much they pay me. The repitition was just too much to deal with.
You have to keep in mind that when you read about the high hourly wages paid to these workers, you're talking about the most senior people who have been with the company for 25 plus years and have climbed up the pay scale over a period of years. New hires don't get that kind of money, neither do people in mid career. I've been there. I know what I'm talking about. It took me eight years to get to the top of the scale when I was with Delta Airlines. And under the new contracts, people who have been hired in within the past five to ten years will never see the kind of money their older peers are making. As the older generation retires, they will be replaced with lower paid workers who will receive fewer benefits. All the cost cutting that people want to see has already been negotiated into current contracts. Your average GM worker at the Arlington plant makes between $14 - $17 an hour, and probably will not go much higher in the future except for cost of living raises.
All of this is just as true in an auto assembly plant as it was in helicopter component assembly. The lazy get weeded out, just like anywhere else, but like anywere else I've ever worked, lazy workers slip through the cracks. Any argumnt a person can make against union workers, I can make the exact same counter argument and point out the exact same personality types at non union shops. Are there lazy workers in non union shops? yes. Are there workers in non union shops who make you wonder who they knew or how they got the job? Yes. Are there workers in non union shops who have absolutely no business being there because of their lack of skill? Yes. This can go on and on and on forever. I worked at Delta for almost 14 years and it was non union. But we had the same problems as the unionized carriers. We were also called overpaid, and I resented it then, and I resent it now. After years of contracting to third party maintenance, the airlines are beginning to realize we were worth every nickel they paid us.
We rolled overhauled 757s out the door every 21 days, and that was with engineering packages completed and with mods to the pylons, and the work was done right. Overpaid? I don't think so because none of the contractors Delta has sent their overhaul work to in the past five years has come close to matching our performance. Why? Because we were Delta employees. We took pride inour work. We felt as if owned those airplanes. You don't get that from a third party contractor. And if people could look past their cynicism for a just a few minutes, they'd discover that Americans still take pride in the work of their hands. even if they are just assembly line workers.
Guys, I've worked for two unionized companies, and I never, never got to screw off and collect a check for being a slug. I did a stint at Verizon for while after leaving Delta, and that's the hardest I've ever worked. I don't know where people get some of their ideas from about lazy and overpaid union workers. That stuff was not tolerated where I worked.
End of rant.
I've read these replies and remarks about lazy and overpaid workers and I think it's a shame that people actually wish failure on anyone, especially fellow Americans. I've been in the aerospace side of the UAW when I was at Bell Helicopter and I sure wish someone would have given me directions to one of those jobs where I didn't have to work but could still pull down almost $30 an hour. Where's snopes when you need them? We had to produce. We were expected to work with management to accomplish production goals. We had to adhere to company policies on everything from attendance to conduct to adherance with federal regulations. Someone please show me where the liine to the gravy train begins.
And I know people who work at the Arlington GM plant here in Texas and it's not sunshine and daffodils. Assembly line work is fast paced, but also repetitive to the point of sheer boredom. You have to have more than just basic mechanical aptitude to work on the line, and better than average mechanical skills. It's hard work and they're worth every penny they make. I've done it. In fact, I don't want to do it ever again, no matter how much they pay me. The repitition was just too much to deal with. Henry Ford understood all of this over a 100 years ago. Why don't people understand this today?
You have to keep in mind that when you read about the high hourly wages paid to these workers, you're talking about the most senior people who have been with the company for 25 plus years and have climbed up the pay scale over a period of years. New hires don't get that kind of money, neither do people in mid career. I've been there. I know what I'm talking about. It took me eight years to get to the top of the scale when I was with Delta Airlines. And under the new contracts, people who have been hired in within the past five to ten years will never see the kind of money their older peers are making. As the older generation retires, they will be replaced with lower paid workers who will receive fewer benefits. All the cost cutting that people want to see has already been negotiated into current contracts. Your average GM worker at the Arlington plant makes between $14 - $17 an hour, and probably will not go much higher in the future except for cost of living raises.
All of this is just as true in an auto assembly plant as it was in helicopter component assembly. The lazy get weeded out, just like anywhere else, but like anywere else I've ever worked, lazy workers slip through the cracks. Any argumnt a person can make against union workers, I can make the exact same counter argument and point out the exact same personality types at non union shops. Are there lazy workers in non union shops? yes. Are there workers in non union shops who make you wonder who they knew or how they got the job? Yes. Are there workers in non union shops who have absolutely no business being there because of their lack of skill? Yes. Can you get fired from a union shop just as easily as you can anywhere else.? All the evidence I've been witness to says yes, absolutley! This can go on and on and on forever. I worked at Delta for almost 14 years and it was non union. But we had the same problems as the unionized carriers. We were also called overpaid, and I resented it then, and I resent it now. After years of contracting to third party maintenance, the airlines are beginning to realize we were worth every nickel they paid us.
We rolled overhauled 757s out the door every 21 days, and that was with engineering packages completed and with mods to the pylons, and the work was done right. Overpaid? I don't think so because none of the contractors Delta has sent their overhaul work to in the past five years has come close to matching our performance. Why? Because we were Delta employees. We took pride in our work. We felt as if owned those airplanes. You don't get that from a third party contractor. And if people could look past their cynacism for a just a few minutes, they'd discover that Americans still take pride in the work of their hands. even assembly line workers.
Guys, I've worked for two unionized companies, and I never, never got to screw off and collect a check for being a deadbeat. I did a stint at Verizon for while after leaving Delta, and that's the hardest I've ever worked. I don't know where people get some of their ideas from about auto assembly line workers or airline mechanics being lazy and overpaid. Like I said, some will always slip through the cracks because of neoptism or because they know how to stay off the radar, but I don't think the percentages of those types of workers are higher in unionized shops than in non union places of employment. That's been my experience anyway.A large workforce is usually just a microcosm of the surrounding community.
End of rant.
And I know people who work at the Arlington GM plant here in Texas and it's not sunshine and daffodils. Assembly line work is fast paced, but also repetitive to the point of sheer boredom. You have to have more than just basic mechanical aptitude to work on the line, and better than average mechanical skills. It's hard work and they're worth every penny they make. I've done it. In fact, I don't want to do it ever again, no matter how much they pay me. The repitition was just too much to deal with. Henry Ford understood all of this over a 100 years ago. Why don't people understand this today?
You have to keep in mind that when you read about the high hourly wages paid to these workers, you're talking about the most senior people who have been with the company for 25 plus years and have climbed up the pay scale over a period of years. New hires don't get that kind of money, neither do people in mid career. I've been there. I know what I'm talking about. It took me eight years to get to the top of the scale when I was with Delta Airlines. And under the new contracts, people who have been hired in within the past five to ten years will never see the kind of money their older peers are making. As the older generation retires, they will be replaced with lower paid workers who will receive fewer benefits. All the cost cutting that people want to see has already been negotiated into current contracts. Your average GM worker at the Arlington plant makes between $14 - $17 an hour, and probably will not go much higher in the future except for cost of living raises.
All of this is just as true in an auto assembly plant as it was in helicopter component assembly. The lazy get weeded out, just like anywhere else, but like anywere else I've ever worked, lazy workers slip through the cracks. Any argumnt a person can make against union workers, I can make the exact same counter argument and point out the exact same personality types at non union shops. Are there lazy workers in non union shops? yes. Are there workers in non union shops who make you wonder who they knew or how they got the job? Yes. Are there workers in non union shops who have absolutely no business being there because of their lack of skill? Yes. Can you get fired from a union shop just as easily as you can anywhere else.? All the evidence I've been witness to says yes, absolutley! This can go on and on and on forever. I worked at Delta for almost 14 years and it was non union. But we had the same problems as the unionized carriers. We were also called overpaid, and I resented it then, and I resent it now. After years of contracting to third party maintenance, the airlines are beginning to realize we were worth every nickel they paid us.
We rolled overhauled 757s out the door every 21 days, and that was with engineering packages completed and with mods to the pylons, and the work was done right. Overpaid? I don't think so because none of the contractors Delta has sent their overhaul work to in the past five years has come close to matching our performance. Why? Because we were Delta employees. We took pride in our work. We felt as if owned those airplanes. You don't get that from a third party contractor. And if people could look past their cynacism for a just a few minutes, they'd discover that Americans still take pride in the work of their hands. even assembly line workers.
Guys, I've worked for two unionized companies, and I never, never got to screw off and collect a check for being a deadbeat. I did a stint at Verizon for while after leaving Delta, and that's the hardest I've ever worked. I don't know where people get some of their ideas from about auto assembly line workers or airline mechanics being lazy and overpaid. Like I said, some will always slip through the cracks because of neoptism or because they know how to stay off the radar, but I don't think the percentages of those types of workers are higher in unionized shops than in non union places of employment. That's been my experience anyway.A large workforce is usually just a microcosm of the surrounding community.
End of rant.
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