drum turns stiff

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Signet Clint

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OK, So Im getting back to replacing brakes and wheel cylinders on the 65 Valiant. When I put the front drum on after replacing the shoes and cylinder, I can hardly turn the drum. It slides on over the new shoes easily, but when I tighten the spindle nut even a little bit, it's almost impossible to turn the drum. Ideas?
 
If you did not turn the drums there is probably a ridge on the inner edge of the drum where the old shoes wore in.

Can try to knock it down with some sandpaper. Sometimes that ridge is mostly rust and scale.

Otherwise have the drums turned for a nice level braking surface. Should take care of it.

Adjust your shoes to the new turned drum, want them to turn free when you are done.

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If the shoes are not sitting parallel to the backing plate or seated correctly the drum can slide on but when centered on the spindle by the nut cause an interference.

Also newly greased bearings can be stiff.

Also shoes that are set too wide can cause a drag
 
Are the new pads the same width as the old pads?

Depending on which diameter drums you’re talking about there could be a few options, not all of which will fit.

Did you change anything with the wheel bearings?
 
MoparLeo said:
Back the shoe adjusters off several clicks and try again.
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The adjuster is all the way in. After messing with it some more, I'm thinking it might be something with the wheel bearing. When I tighten the nut enough to insert the cotter pin the drum won't turn at all. I sanded the drum it didn't have much of a ridge, but did have some surface rust as it's been apart for a month and I live at the coast.
 
"What I'd check."

I'm still on the ridge. I hope you have the shoe cores but if not, do research and make CERTAIN the shoes are correct width. The lining, even if "spec" to correct width, is likely "sharp cornered so a bit, just a bit, wider than the old. The RIDGES in the drum, BOTH outer and inner, can rub/ wear against the edges of the lining

UNLESS you have replaced the bearings, and somehow gotten an incorrect bearing in the mix, that is a non issue. I would remove the shoes and hardware on once side and do a test fit

I AM ASSUMING that you KNOW how to properly adjust wheel bearings, and that you are not simply "tightening" them down, which could also cause this to happen

Also, with the bearing nut more loose, you should be able to turn and hear scraping and perhaps get some better idea of what is going on.
 
67Dart273 said:
"What I'd check."

I'm still on the ridge. I hope you have the shoe cores but if not, do research and make CERTAIN the shoes are correct width. The lining, even if "spec" to correct width, is likely "sharp cornered so a bit, just a bit, wider than the old. The RIDGES in the drum, BOTH outer and inner, can rub/ wear against the edges of the lining

UNLESS you have replaced the bearings, and somehow gotten an incorrect bearing in the mix, that is a non issue. I would remove the shoes and hardware on once side and do a test fit

I AM ASSUMING that you KNOW how to properly adjust wheel bearings, and that you are not simply "tightening" them down, which could also cause this to happen

Also, with the bearing nut more loose, you should be able to turn and hear scraping and perhaps get some better idea of what is going on.
Click to expand...
Thank you, yes, I do know how to properly adjust wheel bearings, I have not replaced them, only packed them. I do have the old shoes and will match them up with the new ones. Even without the nut on the spindle, it still doesn't turn like it should. I'll take the thing back apart and make sure I dont have something catywompas. Thanks!
 
Signet Clint said:
Thank you, yes, I do know how to properly adjust wheel bearings, I have not replaced them, only packed them. I do have the old shoes and will match them up with the new ones. Even without the nut on the spindle, it still doesn't turn like it should. I'll take the thing back apart and make sure I dont have something catywompas. Thanks!
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like the hub/wheel bearings/wheel bearing races aren’t seating properly.

If you haven’t changed anything, including the spindle nut, I’m not sure why that would be happening now and not before though. Unless something was dislodged or damaged when you packed the wheel bearings.
 
Then I would start by carefully looking over wheel bearings. I did not "get" that clearly in your post.
 
As 67Dart273 mentioned, remove the shoes and hardware, then re-assemble the drum/bearings on the spindle to see how it fits now. That will tell you whether it's brakes or bearings/seals that are the problem.
 
AND NOW YET ANOTHER annoying story from the old days.
Sometime in the '80's, working at the big parts store in town, somehow, a customer talked me into looking at his old pre-69 Dodge PU. Seems like this was a 3/4T but dont remember. Something about a bad wheel bearing. So he ferried it down to my place, and I pulled the front wheels off and had a look. I don't remember, anymore, might have needed brakes, but SOMEONE ELSE had been into it. Expecting no problems other than something worn, "things" SOON STARTED TO GO WRONG

Anyhow what happened sort of, is that SOMEONE had replaced a spindle, with either one from a lighter duty truck or 1/2T for a 3/4T. AND THEN PUT the thing back together with the LARGER ID bearings on the SMALLER OD spindle!!!!

When the spindle nut was "fairly tight," the accidental "fit" of the bearings on the spindle taper gave you the idea that it fit, but after a mile or two, that wheel wobbled like a groceriea store cart caster !!!.

This turned out to not be a great deal of fun, for one, simply locating the correct spindle!!!!
 
Alrighty then, I'll disassemble everything and start over. I've done a ton of brakes over the years, it's gotta be something simple I'm doing/not doing. One thing that does puzzle me though...on this car, the shoes are held to the backing plate with cone shaped springs that go through the shoe. So why was this lone stud, obviously from a different car, in the drum? When I pulled the drum off and disassembled the brakes, this was on the floor with the springs and other parts. Here's a pic of the drum and brake assembly.

IMG_20231124_130839216.jpg


IMG_20231124_130815818_PORTRAIT.jpg


IMG_20231124_130750533.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
AND NOW YET ANOTHER annoying story from the old days.
Sometime in the '80's, working at the big parts store in town, somehow, a customer talked me into looking at his old pre-69 Dodge PU. Seems like this was a 3/4T but dont remember. Something about a bad wheel bearing. So he ferried it down to my place, and I pulled the front wheels off and had a look. I don't remember, anymore, might have needed brakes, but SOMEONE ELSE had been into it. Expecting no problems other than something worn, "things" SOON STARTED TO GO WRONG

Anyhow what happened sort of, is that SOMEONE had replaced a spindle, with either one from a lighter duty truck or 1/2T for a 3/4T. AND THEN PUT the thing back together with the LARGER ID bearings on the SMALLER OD spindle!!!!

When the spindle nut was "fairly tight," the accidental "fit" of the bearings on the spindle taper gave you the idea that it fit, but after a mile or two, that wheel wobbled like a groceriea store cart caster !!!.

This turned out to not be a great deal of fun, for one, simply locating the correct spindle!!!!
Click to expand...
That sounds like a nightmare scenario.
 
Take the brake shoes off one side. Put the drum and hub back on, adjust the wheel bearing to see that the drum spins freely.

Process of Elimination

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I did sand the square edges off the new brake shoes with some 80 grit sandpaper for my 2000 Ford van rear drum brakes. (without turning the drums)

Had the adjusters backed off all the way then put the drums and wheels back on, with the drums and wheels freely turing.

Then reached in through the lower slot to start tightening them up to a little drag, then backed them off a few clicks until the drum turned free again.

20231110_121131.jpg


20231109_114518.jpg


Worked for me..... It's a little tricky reaching in that lower slot hole to release the adjuster catch. I used the "L" of an allen wrench to get over the adjuster to release the catch, and used the brake adjuster spanner to turn the adjuster wheel.

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Signet Clint said:
I actually had ordered a set of those hold down springs from Rock. You take a small screwdriver or punch and push inside the spring to hook it onto a clip on the backing plate.
Click to expand...

There are two different shoe retention set ups depending on the year, there’s only 1 hardware kit that’s widely available now and it’s for the later style.

I don’t know all the exact details since I don’t mess with rebuilding front drums at all and just convert to disks. From what I understand the later hardware kit does work but it has different parts especially for those shoe retention pins. There’s a thread here somewhere on it.

I kinda doubt that’s your issue, but it’s probably why you have hardware you don’t recognize.
 
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