Dual quads versus big hammer!!!...

[j par]

I almost forgot pictures everybody likes pictures...

 

[j par]

I will buy on the fuel level being too low and causing the fuel out of the venture to coming on late.
If it was a regular holley you could look threw the sight glass and know if it is right..
Would suck to have to take the top off both carbs to make sure the floats are right......but i would still do that before i drill on the air doors.
fuel lever is super critical for every port in the carb. Yes i know you know that.

And other then the risk of a fuel leak, They are the simples float to set

If you own a normal holley you have them gasket on hand or you don't adj the fuel level.
Just like pulling the top off of your carb. and it was prone to brake the gasket, you would have a spare one before you took the top off to set the float.

As you can see nowhere for the gas to go? also the gasket is kind of a rubbery material... Floats set at 1 in as per instructions..

 

[sireland67]

I hope you get these working correctly, I just put one on my duster, weather too bad to even start it.

The last street demon I had worked great on my old truck, it was a set and forget carb.
But I was only running a single carb.

 

[j par]

I hope you get these working correctly, I just put one on my duster, weather too bad to even start it.

The last street demon I had worked great on my old truck, it was a set and forget carb.
But I was only running a single carb.

I'm sure the problems are more do to me running two carburetors than anything else. and again they run great everything's working fine it's just situations that I put them in..

 

[sireland67]

Have you tried them without the 2” spacers?

 

[j par]

Have you tried them without the 2” spacers?

Not yet, I've convinced myself that that's ridiculous...

 

[j par]

I was suspicious I was using the wrong port for my vacuum readings, but it seems that the small and large ports come from the same spot..

 

[j par]

Took it out on the freeway.. seem to be running good with my latest changes. The af gauge seem to have promising readings.. the plugs look pretty good..
I'm starting to convince myself that my hesitation or stumble is more my street gearing, much larger than stock duration cam and low RPMs.. it has very good throttle response out of the gate and opens up and gets it on great..
When I fast roll onto the throttle out of first gear get some good but the AF gauge goes very lean... When I rolled onto the freeway in 2nd gear and really mashed down went pretty rich but again got it on nicely...
What's really got me pinned is give me during rods on these carburetors. They're all in even increments.. like 60-52 then 62-54 then 64-56... Edelbrock metering rods allow a wider spread.. even on there dual quad chart they have equal idle steps but the front cover has a richer off idle step... I've heard of people clipping the ends... but I'm not ready to go DEFCON 5 yet...

 

[j par]

I bought some new plugs today and now I will install them before I leave tomorrow so I can get and clear reading.. I wanted to wait till I was close to install another set...

 

[j par]

Again from that dual quad Edelbrock tuning article the guy put staggered metering rods in the carburetors. He had the same Idol step in all four rods but the front rods had a fatter step..
I currently have the smallest Jets I can put in the primaries... I feel the Orange Springs are pretty much the ticket and they seem to be operating as they should..
The fatter rods comes and equal increments as I've said before. The factory rods are 60-52 and I bought the 62-54 which are in there now and I have the 64-56 rods as well.. no matter which one of those rods I put in there I still have to turn the idle mixture screws into about 1 turn out...
So to follow along with that article and staggering the rods I went ahead and ordered a set of 58-44 rods and a set of 58-50 rods..
I'll be interested to see how those narrow second steps react. It was my mind to try and clip the bottom of the rods to get more fuel at step up... I don't know if I wasn't seeing these for whatever reason because I was looking for fatter rods or they just popped up on Summit as another option... I remember there being about six or seven variations of their rods and now there seems to be about 11..
I called the Holley tech line this morning and confirmed that they did send the rear air doors out and they should be here Friday. When they sent the wrong Parts out last week I had all kinds of ship dates and notices and this time nothing so I wanted to make sure they were coming..
One more thing about that article with the guy tuning the dual quad Edelbrocks... He was adamant that this was not going to be a quick process but one that could take quite some time to get sorted out but with patience would be...
I feel I'm somewhere in the middle ground but definitely heading in the right direction and feel confident that this will get sorted out with some more time...
I'm slowly creeping up on the amount of money I would have spent buying two complete tune-up kits but again those tune up kits wouldn't have had half the parts that I'm using...

 

[yellow rose]

Again from that dual quad Edelbrock tuning article the guy put staggered metering rods in the carburetors. He had the same Idol step in all four rods but the front rods had a fatter step..
I currently have the smallest Jets I can put in the primaries... I feel the Orange Springs are pretty much the ticket and they seem to be operating as they should..
The fatter rods comes and equal increments as I've said before. The factory rods are 60-52 and I bought the 62-54 which are in there now and I have the 64-56 rods as well.. no matter which one of those rods I put in there I still have to turn the idle mixture screws into about 1 turn out...
So to follow along with that article and staggering the rods I went ahead and ordered a set of 58-44 rods and a set of 58-50 rods..
I'll be interested to see how those narrow second steps react. It was my mind to try and clip the bottom of the rods to get more fuel at step up... I don't know if I wasn't seeing these for whatever reason because I was looking for fatter rods or they just popped up on Summit as another option... I remember there being about six or seven variations of their rods and now there seems to be about 11..
I called the Holley tech line this morning and confirmed that they did send the rear air doors out and they should be here Friday. When they sent the wrong Parts out last week I had all kinds of ship dates and notices and this time nothing so I wanted to make sure they were coming..
One more thing about that article with the guy tuning the dual quad Edelbrocks... He was adamant that this was not going to be a quick process but one that could take quite some time to get sorted out but with patience would be...
I feel I'm somewhere in the middle ground but definitely heading in the right direction and feel confident that this will get sorted out with some more time...
I'm slowly creeping up on the amount of money I would have spent buying two complete tune-up kits but again those tune up kits wouldn't have had half the parts that I'm using...

I'm confused. The main jets have no affect on idle. So are you saying in that article they are cleaning up cruise by using staggered metering rods?

Also, what is your cruise vacuum? That is the number you should use to help you select the step up spring, or whatever they call it.

 

[j par]

I'm confused. The main jets have no affect on idle. So are you saying in that article they are cleaning up cruise by using staggered metering rods?

Also, what is your cruise vacuum? That is the number you should use to help you select the step up spring, or whatever they call it.

The vacuum has everything to do with idle and the step up spring. You want the idle vacuum to override the step up spring and hold the rod down in the fatter setting. When you give it gas and the vacuum drops it allows the spring to take over and push the rod up to the narrower setting on the metering rod and allow more fuel. So the primary Jets and the fatter setting on the metering rod have everything to do with idle as I understand it..

 

[yellow rose]

The vacuum has everything to do with idle and the step up spring. You want the idle vacuum to override the step up spring and hold the rod down in the fatter setting. When you give it gas and the vacuum drops it allows the spring to take over and push the ride up to the narrower setting on the metering rod and allow more fuel. So the primary Jets and the fatter setting on the metering rod have everything to do with idle as I understand it..

Ok, I see what you are saying. I wish I had one here to look at.

Essentially, when discussing the metering rods/springs we are talking the power enrichment circuit, which is the same as the power valve circuit for a Holley. They function the same.

That's why I asked about cruise vacuum. You should be able to pull the main jets completely out and it shouldn't affect idle.

If you are using springs based on idle vacuum, a big portion of the lean spot you are seeing in transition my be from the metering rods coming out of the jet too late. Especially with a stick you see a bigger hole right there. You can cover it up with the pump shot, but that means you may be using more fuel earlier in the pump stroke than you need.

Obviously I don't think this has anything to do with the air valve doors opening or not opening. But I think I has something to do with the lean spot you are seeing when you mash on it a bit.

 

[j par]

Ok, I see what you are saying. I wish I had one here to look at.

Essentially, when discussing the metering rods/springs we are talking the power enrichment circuit, which is the same as the power valve circuit for a Holley. They function the same.

That's why I asked about cruise vacuum. You should be able to pull the main jets completely out and it shouldn't affect idle.

If you are using springs based on idle vacuum, a big portion of the lean spot you are seeing in transition my be from the metering rods coming out of the jet too late. Especially with a stick you see a bigger hole right there. You can cover it up with the pump shot, but that means you may be using more fuel earlier in the pump stroke than you need.

Obviously I don't think this has anything to do with the air valve doors opening or not opening. But I think I has something to do with the lean spot you are seeing when you mash on it a bit.

What do you think of this scenario? You have a 238-248 duration cam, 354 gears with 28 inch tall tires, and you're cruising at about 1800 RPMs and you just mash the gas out of nowhere?... Mind you this is a four-speed so it's not going to downshift into 2nd or into first and smack the RPMs up real quick... ?

 

[j par]

These first two are the number 7 plug and you can see the one on the right is the old plug that was much richer..

and now I'm about to replace the number 5 plug and you can see the brand new one the one that I just pulled out and then the old plug. This is why I feel I'm headed in the right direction??..

 

[j par]

And the side view of the number 5 so you can see that at least two if not three of the threads are getting color..

 

[yellow rose]

What do you think of this scenario? You have a 238-248 duration cam, 354 gears with 28 inch tall tires, and you're cruising at about 1800 RPMs and you just mash the gas out of nowhere?... Mind you this is a four-speed so it's not going to downshift into 2nd or into first and smack the RPMs up real quick... ?

I'm thinking that's where you can get a lean spot if the step up springs are too weak. The weaker springs will take longer (relatively longer because we are talking about very small time elements here) to push the metering rods up out of the Jets and that delays additional fuel to help cover the load.

The plugs are certainly looking better. Heat range is just about as good as you can get it.

Keep at it and you'll be the King of these carbs. You can start writing articles and such and make some extra income. I'm serious.

 

[j par]

I'm thinking that's where you can get a lean spot if the step up springs are too weak. The weaker springs will take longer (relatively longer because we are talking about very small time elements here) to push the metering rods up out of the Jets and that delays additional fuel to help cover the load.

The plugs are certainly looking better. Heat range is just about as good as you can get it.

Keep at it and you'll be the King of these carbs. You can start writing articles and such and make some extra income. I'm serious.

Lol... I could write a book and would have done to the car so far LOL...
Yes I am getting a lien spot that's traveling too far. When I gas it or roll into it slowly even the MAF gauge goes very lean but it does continue to get going fast. When I give it full throttle and wide-open everything they have gauge drops down to 12 and 11...
I went for a drive out in the country and went out to a friend's house. The plugs look even leaner yet I believe but they don't have many miles on them probably 20 to 25.. most of it was just Cruise mode.. don't get me wrong, inevitably a few wide open throttle blas are necessary..

the new plug with no adjustments and cruise mode mostly is on top and then the plug that I took out underneath that then then that little bit older plug from when I first got the carbs at the bottom. It's the number two..

 

[j par]

Possibly now that I have the idol and Cruise under control like you're saying I may just try the next spring up which would be the factory green spring...
The top chart is the Edelbrock and the bottom chart is the street demons for the springs. The green comes in the Street Demon Factory.
I'd have another day off tomorrow as my customer just got back from traveling and we agreed under the conditions that's going on that will just put it off till next week so I have more time for test and tune tomorrow... I got to get cracking cooking dinner..

 

[yellow rose]

View attachment 1715488195 View attachment 1715488196
Possibly now that I have the idol and Cruise under control like you're saying I may just try the next spring up which would be the factory green spring...
The top chart is the Edelbrock and the bottom chart is the street demons for the springs. The green comes in the Street Demon Factory.
I'd have another day off tomorrow as my customer just got back from traveling and we agreed under the conditions that's going on that will just put it off till next week so I have more time for test and tune tomorrow... I got to get cracking cooking dinner..

The chart helps. You need to get a vacuum gauge on there and look and see what you have for cruise vacuum. Set your springs based on that.

I had to pull out my old Carter carb book and refresh my memory. If the stiffest (quickest opening) spring you can get opens at 8 inches, you may have to use some thin washers and shim it up a bit. I'm thinking you'll be 16-18 inches of cruise vacuum...maybe a bit less because I just remembered you took some gear out...so if you can be at 10 inches or so when the spring pulls the metering rods out of the jet, you will most likely clean up the lean spot.

Back to reading. I had forgotten a bunch about these carbs. Makes me want to correctly modify a Strip Dominator and do a TQ for my junk.

 

[j par]

The chart helps. You need to get a vacuum gauge on there and look and see what you have for cruise vacuum. Set your springs based on that.

I had to pull out my old Carter carb book and refresh my memory. If the stiffest (quickest opening) spring you can get opens at 8 inches, you may have to use some thin washers and shim it up a bit. I'm thinking you'll be 16-18 inches of cruise vacuum...maybe a bit less because I just remembered you took some gear out...so if you can be at 10 inches or so when the spring pulls the metering rods out of the jet, you will most likely clean up the lean spot.

Back to reading. I had forgotten a bunch about these carbs. Makes me want to correctly modify a Strip Dominator and do a TQ for my junk.

Everything I'm reading says the vacuum keeps the rods down at idle. And generally speaking their thinking you have the same vacuum at a steady cruise at low RPM. When I check my charge for my Edelbrock so I use the yellow spring. But again remember they had bigger primary so they weren't trying to suck it from such a small hole like these smaller Street demon primaries. So I feel I'm getting more vacuum with these carburetors.I've been trying to jet down enough to not have to turn the idle mixture screws in past 1 and 1/2 turns but again like my Edelbrocks in near 3/4 of the turn to 1 and 1/4 turn. And I'm at about 1 turn to 1 and 1/4 on all of my idle screws. the first thing I'm going to do is get it warmed up and take it for a short drive tomorrow and then just start putting fatter or stronger Springs in and see what happens now that I seem to have this idle and everything else under control. Also I do have those 31 squirters up top and I can put stronger squirters in as well to see if that helps again.
One more thing I have is those metering rods coming the 58/44 s and 58/50 s...
Again that article States putting richer rods in the front carburetor...

 

[j par]

And remember most everything you read is on one carburetor..

 

[yellow rose]

Everything I'm reading says the vacuum keeps the rods down at idle. And generally speaking their thinking you have the same vacuum at a steady cruise at low RPM. When I check my charge for my Edelbrock so I use the yellow spring. But again remember they had bigger primary so they weren't trying to suck it from such a small hole like these smaller Street demon primaries. So I feel I'm getting more vacuum with these carburetors.I've been trying to jet down enough to not have to turn the idle mixture screws in past 1 and 1/2 turns but again like my Edelbrocks in near 3/4 of the turn to 1 and 1/4 turn. And I'm at about 1 turn to 1 and 1/4 on all of my idle screws. the first thing I'm going to do is get it warmed up and take it for a short drive tomorrow and then just start putting fatter or stronger Springs in and see what happens now that I seem to have this idle and everything else under control. Also I do have those 31 squirters up top and I can put stronger squirters in as well to see if that helps again.
One more thing I have is those metering rods coming the 58/44 s and 58/50 s...
Again that article States putting richer rods in the front carburetor...

I can buy the front carb running a bit fatter. Fuel does move around in the plenum.

Blown alcohol has a huge stagger. When they stage you can see the front holes dropping every now and then because they are so fat. When the blower gets going the fuel moves to the back. And the MPH adds to it.

 

[318willrun]

What do you think of this scenario? You have a 238-248 duration cam, 354 gears with 28 inch tall tires, and you're cruising at about 1800 RPMs and you just mash the gas out of nowhere?... Mind you this is a four-speed so it's not going to downshift into 2nd or into first and smack the RPMs up real quick... ?

At what speed? IF your at 1800 rpms in 1st or 2nd it should take off. If you are at 1800 rpm's in 4th gear and mash it, you are making it more difficult but I still believe it shouldn't cough and do a major "cut-out", but it may be hesitant.

 

[j par]

I'll be interested to get it to the track because when it's on like I said it's ON!!
my buddy just sent me a video of me taking off from his house that was only about 10 seconds long but it only took two for me to disappear!!..