early waterpump on 1985 318

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prorac1

prorac1

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Hey all, looking for advice on an engine swap accessories idea.

I am installing a 1985 318 into a 1963 Plymouth Valiant with a 1966 Barracuda Super Commando 273 radiator.

The problem is that the 1985 engine has the waterpump outlet on the opposite side compared to the 1966 radiator.

So here is my question, can I simply put an early 273 waterpump on the later 318 engine? Or is there spacing issues? And if accessory spacing is an issue, are there any easy to find/cost effective methods of curing the problem? Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Eric L
 
All of the parts from the early engine will bolt right on to your 85 318. The only issue you'll have is that the factory TDC mark on the damper will be obscured by the bottom hose outlet. You'll have to locate TDC and then mark the 1985 damper to correspond with the early timing tab.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
All of the parts from the early engine will bolt right on to your 85 318. The only issue you'll have is that the factory TDC mark on the damper will be obscured by the bottom hose outlet. You'll have to locate TDC and then mark the 1985 damper to correspond with the early timing tab.
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The problem is that I don't have ANY early accessories. The car started out as a slant six car, the only original early v8 part I have is the radiator. Eric L
 
That's a problem! I'll look over the weekend and see if I can scrounge enough parts for you to make that happen. What accessories do you plan on running?
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
That's a problem! I'll look over the weekend and see if I can scrounge enough parts for you to make that happen. What accessories do you plan on running?
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The only accessory ill be running is an alternator. How far off is the spacing between the two? Which one is shorter? Can spacers be used? It might be easier to just get a different radiator? Thanks, Eric L
 
prorac1 said:
Yeah, id guess that would be an option also. Just install the outlet on the other side and solider the old hole shut. Eric L
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If it's not a fresh rad,, have it rodded out at the same time,,, help prevent any additional probs in the future..
 
...or go get an 85/86 rad.

I have one inn my 66 Coronet along with the 86 318.
 
YY1 said:
...or go get an 85/86 rad.

I have one inn my 66 Coronet along with the 86 318.
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The car in question is a 1963 Valiant. I don't think a mid 80s radiator will fit even if I open up the radiator opening? I guess ill have to measure a newer radiator and compare. Eric L
 
If you're spending to rebuild the later model engine, spend for a radiator.
If you're just dropping it in as is, measure how much available space you have and buy a later good used radiator.
We don't know the 50 year old radiator isn't a factor in the need for a engine swap.
 
RedFish said:
If you're spending to rebuild the later model engine, spend for a radiator.
If you're just dropping it in as is, measure how much available space you have and buy a later good used radiator.
We don't know the 50 year old radiator isn't a factor in the need for a engine swap.
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Yeah, for now we are pulling a good running 318 out of one of my uncles old pickups. Were planning on cleaning it up, putting new main and rod berings in it, timing chain, oil pump, an el cheapo stockish cam with some chop, and a gasket kit. Essentially a glorified rattle can rebuild, lol. I will probably hand lap the valves and install some valve springs in the heads while im in there, but I don't want to go to crazy.

I guess the main question I have to answer is what is the difference measurement wise between the early and late accys? Which waterpump sticks out further, and is spacing pulleys and or alternator brackets an option? Thanks again for all your help and advice. It is greatly appreciated. Eric L
 
Go ahead & use the early cast iron pump with the nipple on the DR side same as your current DR outlet nipple rad. You have to aim the light just right to see the marks but it is easily doable. When I did mine (65 dart/83 318/dr rad lower nipple) I just used the correct length bolts to restore the same amt of thread engagement everywhere as needed & spacers/washers etc & you likely will need a different WP pulley/spacers to restore belt alignment. Best (if you play with timing alot) would be to buy one of Whitepunkkinitro's pass side bolt on timing tabs and make a new mark (exact TDC) on the dampener on the pass side. WPK I emailed you about buying one of em, did you get my email?
 
Rapid Robert said:
Go ahead & use the early cast iron pump with the nipple on the DR side same as your current DR outlet nipple rad. You have to aim the light just right to see the marks but it is easily doable. When I did mine (65 dart/83 318/dr rad lower nipple) I just used the correct length bolts to restore the same amt of thread engagement everywhere as needed & spacers/washers etc & you likely will need a different WP pulley/spacers to restore belt alignment. Best (if you play with timing alot) would be to buy one of Whitepunkkinitro's pass side bolt on timing tabs and make a new mark (exact TDC) on the dampener on the pass side. WPK I emailed you about buying one of em, did you get my email?
Click to expand...

That's kinda the information I was looking for. Im not to concerned with multiple timing changes, but making a timing pointer for another location shouldn't be an issue. If one of the local parts stores had BOTH water pumps I could measure them out and figure out what the difference is. And I cant seem to find ANYTHING online with a depth comparison between the early and late water pumps.

When I did the swap on my other 63 20 years ago, I had an aftermarket radiator so none of this was a concern. And after that I had electric waterpumps, aftermarket accy drives, etc. so this never came up. Just part of the learning process I guess, lol. Thanks again for all the information. Eric L
 
(1) bolt the pump on & if the mounting bolt flanges are significantly thinner or thicker than the alum pump flanges are then get different bolts out of your stash. It ain't a super critical deal tho people have cracked the DR #1 cyl wall (it's closest) by using a bolt way too long. Just keep that in mind as you mockup. (2) then bolt on your current WP pulley & measure how much addition pulley depth you need so the groove is back in line with the crank/alt pulleys. You can space the crank pulley out & Mancini has tailor made spacers for that and you can manipulate the alt pulley fore/aft position some. Mockup & go from there. I may have a pulley that will fit! You measure OD & that can be anywhere within reason if your crank pulley will still fit but the total depth is the critical dimention
 

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