eccentric cam and ball joint to spindle angle

[Hideogumperjr]

Hi all, I have rebuilt the front end on my 63 Dart and am moving to disc brakes in the front. I installed the control arm on the right but dont know how to set the eccentric cam bolts initially.
As I connected the upper ball joint to the spindle hole I noticed that while the top of the spindle was mostly horizontal, the ball joint looked to be tilted several degrees downward toward the front. Can anyone tell from the pictures if the control arm is correct? This is the passenger side and I have the flat part of the control arm for the bumper over the mounted rubber bumper so I believe this is oriented correctly (but Ill be the first to admit I could be wrong!)
CAn someone explain the correct orientation of the cam bolts when replacing them after bushing replacement? Also if the angle between ball joint and the spindle hole should match or if they are off angle?
I will include pictures if "Gods willing and the creek dont rise."
Thanks and let me know if this makes any sense.
Cheers.
John

 

[Badart]

Looks like it's on the wrong side to me. Look at my pics it should be angled the other way

 

[ardentindustries]

The ball joint should be nearly vertical when bolted up. It looks like its the correct way, and is correcting the angle that the pivot mounts are built with, but almost like it is too much angle???
I think if that were put on the driver side, the ball joint stud would be looking at the front of the car wouldnt it? You have the angle that the pivots are built with, and if you put that arm on the driver side, now the ball joint adds to that angle that the pivots are built with correct? Am I missing something??

 

[lilcuda]

You've definitely got the control arm on the wrong side of the car. Here's a photo of my car before I took it apart for it's big bolt pattern conversion. Notice the ball joint is pretty much vertical and the end of the control arm is close to horizontal.

 

[Hideogumperjr]

Thanks for all the input. I am adding some extra pictures to help clarify. These with the jack out from under the lower control to drop it to a more static position.
From what I can tell I have the control arm in correctly but please correct me if I am wrong. The rubber bumper is under the flat part of the control arm as I think it should be, if it were the wrong arm would not the rubber bumper be under the unflat part of the arm?
Thanks yall.

 

[BillGrissom]

You are correct. The bump stop on the car defines which side the UCA should go on (sits on flat side). The spindles are not symmetrical, so it makes a difference which side they are installed. You can't compare your spindles to lilcuda's since yours are the later BBP disk ones. People have mounted the calipers either in front or behind, depending on interference with a sway bar and to move some weight rearward, so the spindles can work either side.

Re setting the cam bolts. You generally want to get as much caster as possible, which means moving the upper ball joint center as far back as possible. In more words - get the line thru the 2 ball joints hitting the ground as far in front of the tire contact patch as possible. That means adjust the cams so the front bushing is as far out as possible (away from engine) and the rear bushing is as close to the engine as possible. Just look at the cam lobes. You can do even better with offset bushings, but too late for that. Of course, you also must get the camber correct, which is how much the tire leans in or out, which will counter-act the best caster. Some people play with the bottom for more caster by using an adustable strut rod to pull the LCA forward. Most important for safety and tire wear is to get the toe-in close before you drive to an alignment shop. You can get real close with a tape measure on the tire treads. I don't even go to alignment shops, but I'm a cracker.

 

[Dirt Track Junkie]

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but comparing Hideogumperjr's picture to lilcuda's. It looks like that upper is bent.

Do you have the other side together?

 

[ardentindustries]

F/M/J spindles???

 

[Hideogumperjr]

DTJ no I have not put the other side together yet for fear I had something largely amiss and wanted to be sure I was correct on the passenger side. I will most likely put the drivers control arm in place tomorrow and see how that looks. On the passenger side I have not tighened anything other than the eccentric cam bolts, I did not tighten the ball joints in case I had to pull them apart again and did not want to take the chance of damaging them with a pickle fork.
I will see what the drivers side looks like.
Curley not sure on the FMJ spindles but am checking on the donor car from the gentlemechanic I got them from so will post up later,
Thanks for the great education aspect for me I love learning this stuff.
John

 

[Badart]

I stand corrected and the arm looks like it is on the correct side, but they don't look right. What are they from?

 

[Badart]

If they are the wrong upper control arms, I have a rust free set from a 73 Dart that I would send to you for shipping. They need new bushings, but I think the ball joints are good.

 

[Hideogumperjr]

I contacted the person I got them from and he says "These brakes came from a 64 Valiant that had them retrofitted by a previous owner - I assume that they are 73 -76 A-body."
Best I can do,
thanks to all for the help.

 

[BillGrissom]

I understand there were only 2 versions of UCA: 63-72 w/ small ball joint, 73-76 w/ large ball joint. The ball joints have 2 different shaft sizes, so if it fits your spindle, you have the correct UCA. There were more spindles - 9" drum, 10" drum, & disk for each UCA. I am not clear on 73+ drums, I think they might have kept using the early UCA and spindles, and drums didn't last long after 73.

A tip on tightening the eccentric cam bolts. Keep all bushings loose until you lower the car to the ground, adjust the ride height, and bounce it up and down a few times. You only want to tighten them in the "neutral position". If you were to tighten them with the wheels hanging down, the rubber would have a strong twist at neutral hieight and maybe twist so much it shears when the front goes down in a bump.

 

[mcnoople]

I believe the 73+ drum spindle used the large ball joint as well. The 73+ drum spindle is what the donor is when you use AR engineering's brembo/viper/porsche brake kit.