Engine Bay Electrical Slant 6

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timothy c

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Does anyone have pictures of the engine bay for a 67 Dart with slant 6. I'm starting on this project and the kid I bought the car from bastardized the electrical system. Car runs, and almost every electrical system seems to function (except heater and blower, all disconnected); however, I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish. See the pics attached and let me know what the hell he was trying to accomplish. Bottom line is, I'd like to get it back to stock as close as possible.











In advance, thanks for the pics and or feedback.

Tim
 

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your harness looks like mine... i had to rewire it though after a electrical fire due to a shorted out horn/relay...

if the underdash harness is good i might just recommend buying a engine/light harness from year one... use them in our 68's with no issues, look stock, and all the connectors are where they should be...
 
Hey Kid - Thanks! I jumped over to year one and found the harness you're referring to. Sure seems like there a lot more wires to connect to under my hood than the harness accounts for, but definitely a good start. Can you tell me what those little black switches are on the driver side of the engine bay marked S, ST, H, L????

Thanks again...
 
timothy c said:
Hey Kid - Thanks! I jumped over to year one and found the harness you're referring to. Sure seems like there a lot more wires to connect to under my hood than the harness accounts for, but definitely a good start. Can you tell me what those little black switches are on the driver side of the engine bay marked S, ST, H, L????

Thanks again...
Click to expand...

well there are three harnesses that clip to the bulkhead connector... Engine Harness, Wiper Harness, And Light Harness...

and those black boxes are relays... your gonna have to follow them and figure what they are for... but a guess is the H is for horn, st for starter??
 
Reminds me of my engine compartment too. It's pathetic that people butcher the stock harness when they KNOW it works. Mine was cut up for a MSD 6AL box and had a Holley carb with a 440 Torker Intake. That thing was so screwed up it was un believable (Charger).
 
Unplug them one at a time and see what stops working..................

Trace them back until you know you are following factory wire colors and then look up the wire colors in the manual

Has any equipment, driving lights, fans, stereo, theft alarm been added?

If not, check for high beams, low beams, ignition system, charging system

Looks to me like a lot of choppin' goin' on. Personally, I'd plan on a rewire.

ONE BIG PROBLEM with many many of these old girls is poor connections through the bulkhead connector.
 
cudajim said:
What an interesting mess. From the looks of it I'd start over with a stock wiring harness.
Click to expand...

One I junked was far worse. Guy got a huge sale, I guess, on continuous duty solenoids......

98686598-260x260-0-0_Raritan+Continuous+Duty+Solenoid+Continuous+Duty+S.jpg


There was something like 3 of those and I think 2 Ferd starter solenoids on the car. As near as I can figure, he used 'em for headlight relays, an aftermarket horn, a burglar alarm, and used a bosch relay and a Ferd solenoid combo to wire up a replacement for the neutral safety/ starter relay.

Unfortunately, he mounted three of the solenoids down low in front of the rad core, just in time for all the snow and mud n' crap.

To "top it all off" (bottom it all out?) he had about a six - way tee on the oil sender hole, with the stock sender, a fuel pump cutout switch, and an oil gauge line.

Here are the highlights, there was MUCH more.....

This is the one with the extra bumper guards installed.........

The fender mount solenoids. I have no idea what the air connector was for, might 'ha been air shocks.....

10z4tcn.jpg


The headlight relays, down in all the road splash............

35k0rxl.jpg


and the fine business lower rad hose, with TWO engine heaters!!!

eqzggi.jpg


the hamsexy extra optional bumper guards

o729t1.jpg
 
I have some good used harnesses if you choose to go that route.
Thanks, Mark
 
Yea, it looks like I'm going to have to take it one step at a time. Probably find out the bulkhead connector crapped out, thus the ad hoc wiring. Again thanks for the feedback.
805moparkid said:
well there are three harnesses that clip to the bulkhead connector... Engine Harness, Wiper Harness, And Light Harness...

and those black boxes are relays... your gonna have to follow them and figure what they are for... but a guess is the H is for horn, st for starter??
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the suggestions. The only mod I can tell to the electrical system was a "theft deterrent"...the head lights with high beams have to be on before the car can start. I'm not kidding! Your mention of the bulkhead connector causes me concern. I guess I'll find out what I'm getting into this weekend...Thanks again!

67Dart273 said:
Unplug them one at a time and see what stops working..................

Trace them back until you know you are following factory wire colors and then look up the wire colors in the manual

Has any equipment, driving lights, fans, stereo, theft alarm been added?

If not, check for high beams, low beams, ignition system, charging system

Looks to me like a lot of choppin' goin' on. Personally, I'd plan on a rewire.

ONE BIG PROBLEM with many many of these old girls is poor connections through the bulkhead connector.
Click to expand...
 
Looks like they had a good idea with relays / solenoids running all the loads.

Also the cow pusher bumper is great. Now I feel like having a bumper like that on my duster... Dang.. Lets see, weight reduction vs. ramming ability.
 
He did what many recommend, which is to put the lights on relays, but didn't do an elegant job. He also put the starter and horn on the same generic "automobile" relays. It looks like he left the harnesses for the ignition and wipers untouched. He mainly just hacked into the light harness. He added extension wires for the horn and starter relays to move them off the fire-wall. I did similar, but mine is prettier, with a Power Distribution Center next to the battery and all wires in smooth sheath.

To fix, you can get just the light harness from a donor car. You can still buy new starter and horn relays. I used a 74 Dart for re-wiring my 65 Dart so I could keep my factory harness unmolested. I did remove the bulkhead connectors since those are different (latches and keys vary). You can remove the spade pins (56 terminal males) easily by compressing width-wise and wiggle them thru. Sand them off and coat with dielectric grease before installing in your connector housings.

Follow the wiring diagram. You just use short wires to the firewall relays. If you can't find the special vinyl tape wrap (not gunky electrical tape), you might use self-fusing silicone tape, but it will be thicker. Your ballast resistor is missing, but might mean you have an upgraded ignition. Consider replacing your old voltage regulator with a new electronic one. I see ones with the same connectors for ~$12 currently, though thin and shiny. Your black box could actually be the new electronic type (some were disguised to look original), so look underneath. If large wirewound resistors, it is the old mechanical type. While you have everything off the firewall, sand away that rust and re-paint.

Also read up on the problems with large ammeter currents flowing thru the spade connectors and solutions. I don't have that problem since in 65 they used dedicated round feed-thru lugs for those big wires. They dropped that plus upped the current draw, not a wise decision.
 
WOW, what a mess. I plan on putting relays to my lights and all. But I plan to do a much better job. I would think;
H=high beam
L=low beam
ST=starter
S= I have no clue.

Good luck tracking it down, I hope you get that mess straight soon.
 
BillGrissom said:
He did what many recommend, which is to put the lights on relays, but didn't do an elegant job. He also put the starter and horn on the same generic "automobile" relays. It looks like he left the harnesses for the ignition and wipers untouched. He mainly just hacked into the light harness. He added extension wires for the horn and starter relays to move them off the fire-wall. I did similar, but mine is prettier, with a Power Distribution Center next to the battery and all wires in smooth sheath.

To fix, you can get just the light harness from a donor car. You can still buy new starter and horn relays. I used a 74 Dart for re-wiring my 65 Dart so I could keep my factory harness unmolested. I did remove the bulkhead connectors since those are different (latches and keys vary). You can remove the spade pins (56 terminal males) easily by compressing width-wise and wiggle them thru. Sand them off and coat with dielectric grease before installing in your connector housings.

Follow the wiring diagram. You just use short wires to the firewall relays. If you can't find the special vinyl tape wrap (not gunky electrical tape), you might use self-fusing silicone tape, but it will be thicker. Your ballast resistor is missing, but might mean you have an upgraded ignition. Consider replacing your old voltage regulator with a new electronic one. I see ones with the same connectors for ~$12 currently, though thin and shiny. Your black box could actually be the new electronic type (some were disguised to look original), so look underneath. If large wirewound resistors, it is the old mechanical type. While you have everything off the firewall, sand away that rust and re-paint.

Also read up on the problems with large ammeter currents flowing thru the spade connectors and solutions. I don't have that problem since in 65 they used dedicated round feed-thru lugs for those big wires. They dropped that plus upped the current draw, not a wise decision.
Click to expand...

Bill - Thanks for the detailed explanation. Let me run something by you while I'm on a roll...I was working on the electrical systems this weekend as I've had two new batteries crap out on me. I opted to change out the alternator, voltage regulator and battery. Every thing was going well until I disconnected (with the car running) the postive lead to my battery to make sure the alternater was working correclty :eek:ops:. Puff...my headlights flickered real bright and apparently burned out. All the remaining systems appear to be working fine, but I have no headlights. Do you think I need to only replace the headlights or do you think I've fried the entire circuit? Your thoughts...After I unscrew this problem, I'll work the relay wiring next weekend.

Again, thanks!

Tim
 
timothy c said:
Every thing was going well until I disconnected (with the car running) the postive lead to my battery to make sure the alternater was working

Tim
Click to expand...

Probably just blew out the lamps.

BUT

I've tried and tried to get this across to you guys

DO NOT do this

This is NOT a legitimate test of anything, and it proves NOTHING

You will never find this "procedure" in any shop manual, text book, or being taught in any class

When you disconnect an alternator like this, the system produces a huge voltage spike that can go over a hundred volts, and the newer your car is, the more likely that you'll "kill" some solid state device.

And, it does not prove good or bad

If you happen to remove the cable at a very low idle, when the alternator is not putting out enough, the engine might die even though the charging system is OK -- so wrong result

If the alternator has as many as 4 open diodes (of 6) or one or two bad stators, it MIGHT put out enough to operate the ignition system, even though it's only putting out a fraction of it's power. So in this case, you might be led to believe it's OK--so wrong result.
 
yeah, those look like relays for the lights. If you get into this mod, do yourself a fafor and nab a fuse block from a yard car, keeps them all in one place. Hey, at least he mounted them!
 
timothy c said:
Bill - Do you think I need to only replace the headlights or do you think I've fried the entire circuit?
Tim
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late response, but 67Dart273 gave an excellent answer. At least with your relays, it would have fried wires only to the relay, or the relay itself, and they only cost $5 and can get anywhere. One advantage of standard auto relays is that you can swap them to say fix your lights, but give up your horn, if stuck far from home. Good you have the big headlamps. Try finding the small ones used in 4 lamp cars like my Newport and 300D.

Speaking of batteries, I replaced 2 in the last month as did a son on another car in our fleet of 7. When I suspect they are no longer holding a charge, I let Autozone test them in the parking lot. I was right both times. One was a gold-top <3 yrs old, so free replacement. The other was their cheapest Duralast, but 10 yrs old (a personal best). I started putting a Battery Brain on all my cars several months ago, after being stranded. Saved me from further strandings 2 times already, and helped identify those problem batteries.
 
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