Engine block castings/day

[coloradohill]

I’m curious how many 340 blocks would typically be cast in a average day. Hundreds?

I’ve done a little research and have found nothing so far.

I have two dated 07/03.

Also, what does the pointer signify with the eight dots in the circle?

Thanks in advance.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think hundreds is a stretch for a day. @krazykuda might know. What say you, Karl?

 

[krazykuda]

I think hundreds is a stretch for a day. @krazykuda might know. What say you, Karl?

Hundreds is not out of the question as they have many cavities that they run and run them in batches... They don't run all the blocks every day, they run them in batches and switch off from one block to the other... It depends on how many they have demand for.... Being that this one is for a 71 model year 340, they were put in A, B, & E bodies that year.... So hundreds is not a stretch for a batch run...

 

[krazykuda]

Also, what does the pointer signify with the eight dots in the circle?

Thanks in advance.

View attachment 1715898812

The pointer is supposed to be the time of day that they 'ran' the blocks... The D or N on the other side of the rib designates if it was cast on day or night shift and the "clock" signifies the time that they set up the molds to be cast for that day/shift....

 

[coloradohill]

A friend and I thought the pointer may be the time of day but the absence of four dots through us off.
Thanks to both of you guys.

 

[my68barracuda]

A friend and I thought the pointer may be the time of day but the absence of four dots through us off.
Thanks to both of you guys.

There are 8 dots because there are 8 hours in a typical work day.
Pointer towards 1st Dot = 1st hour of that shift
2d Dot= 2nd hour of that shift.
The plan was the pointer would be moved every hour to identify the hour a casting was produced. That would be useful information to help when digging into the production records to understand why a particular block, or a particular set of blocks had a casting defect, discovered at some later point in time.
The foundry date code markers are very accurate. As those were set on the pattern before the pattern was set in use. The same goes for the shift markers.
The foundry hour markers are not very accurate. To change the marker the molding line would need to be stopped and the pointer adjusted. That caused down time and lost molds. The molding lines were held to a high expectation for uptime and efficiency, so most of the time the hour markers were only changed if the mold line was down for some other reason. Of course the molding line Forman always said ‘yes I stop the line every hour and have the hour marker set’ Wink-Wink! That was one of those games the molding department played to keep their reported efficiency high.

 

[coloradohill]

There are 8 dots because there are 8 hours in a typical work day.
Pointer towards 1st Dot = 1st hour of that shift
2d Dot= 2nd hour of that shift.
The plan was the pointer would be moved every hour to identify the hour a casting was produced. That would be useful information to help when digging into the production records to under why a particular block had a casting defect, discovered at some later point in time.
The foundry date code markers are very accurate. As those were set on the pattern before the pattern was set in use. The same goes for the shift markers.
The foundry hour markers are not very accurate. To change the marker the molding line would need to be stopped and the pointer adjusted. That caused down time and lost molds. The molding lines were held to a high expectation for uptime and efficiency, so most of the time the hour markers were only changed if the mold line was down for some other reason. Of course the molding line Forman always said ‘yes I stop the line every hour and have hour marker set’ Wink-Wink! That was one of those games the molding department played to keep their reported efficiency high.

Interesting, Thank you

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Hundreds is not out of the question as they have many cavities that they run and run them in batches... They don't run all the blocks every day, they run them in batches and switch off from one block to the other... It depends on how many they have demand for.... Being that this one is for a 71 model year 340, they were put in A, B, & E bodies that year.... So hundreds is not a stretch for a batch run...

I always figured June was the cutoff for production of '70 year models because I have a 70 340 out of my friends 1970 340 Dart #'s matching block to that car and it's June '70

 

[krazykuda]

I always figured June was the cutoff for production of '70 year models because I have a 70 340 out of my friends 1970 340 Dart #'s matching block to that car and it's June '70

They usually would do the build out for the previous model in mid to late May... Then a couple of weeks to retool the machine and assembly lines for any changes that were new for that coming year... Then ramp up production in mid June gradually to make sure that they are building them correctly and let the operators get used to the new changes before going full-blast production by the end of June or early July....

There is also a pilot run that they do 6 weeks before production (usually early May) for the next model year where they run the new model year parts down the lines and make sure that the tooling is capable of running the new changes. You don't want to wait until production starts to find any problems... If any problems show up during the pilot run, they jump through hoops to get it fixed by the start of production... They call that the PVP (Pre Volume Production) pilot run... The design engineers are there and teach the plant production engineers and the operators the new changes for the upcoming launch and test out any new tools needed to assemble the engines... Any leftover PVP engines that are not used for testing may be used in production if they are at the same change level for the production released parts...


There is no hard cutoff for new model year blocks...

There may be some left over blocks in the tear-down area from the previous year that may get recycled... If the blocks are interchangeable (and the 70 and 71 blocks are) then they would not scrap the 'late' teardown blocks that they did not get to finish from the previous year... "teardown" engines are ones with defects that they tear down and recycle any good salvageable parts off of... They scrap the defective part and recycle the rest...

They could also have a bunch of old raw castings that they did not use by the end of the year that they can put down the block machine line and make into good engines... I wasn't in the factories back then, but I suspect they did not have very good inventory control to run FIFO (First In - First Out) like they did in the later years that I was there... Even then, there could be some pallets of blocks stuck in an obscure corner that they find later and run if they are interchangeable with the ones that they are running for that model year... They will not scrap a part that is not obsolete if they can reuse it again... That keeps the costs down... Why scrap a part that is still useable...

 

[coloradohill]

I wasn't in the factories back then, but I suspect they did not have very good inventory control to run FIFO (First In - First Out) like they did in the later years that I was there..

Where were these engines made(cast), and assembled? Would it be the same city/location or were they cast at a foundry then shipped to an assembly plant?
Thanks again

 

[my68barracuda]

Where were these engines made(cast), and assembled? Would it be the same city/location or were they cast at a foundry then shipped to an assembly plant?
Thanks again

Chrysler had a large gray iron foundry that cast blocks and heads here in Indy.
On Tibbs Avenue on the near West side of the city. That foundry dated back to at least the early 1900’s. It was expanded and modernized several times. It was closed in 2005 and the facility was leveled.

 

[coloradohill]

Chrysler had a large gray iron foundry that cast blocks and heads here in Indy.
On Tibbs Avenue on the near West side of the city. That foundry dated back to at least the early 1900’s. It was expanded and modernized several times. It was closed in 2005 and the facility was leveled.

I remember that one. I lived in the Indy area for about 16-17 years. The sign in the employee parking lot….. foreign made vehicles are NOT welcome here! Or something like that. You probably know the exact verbiage. I remember Ford had a big plant there also. Thanks

 

[my68barracuda]

I remember that one. I lived in the Indy area for about 16-17 years. The sign in the employee parking lot….. foreign made vehicles are NOT welcome here! Or something like that. You probably know the exact verbiage. I remember Ford had a big plant there also. Thanks

The Ford plant was on English Avenue on the East side of Indy. They made steering and suspension components there. That facility closed in the early 2000’s and was recently leveled.
Chrysler also had a plant on Shadeland Avenue where they made alternators, starters and other electrical components. That plant closed with the Chrysler financial crisis in the 70’s, the building has been re purposed.
Also on Shadeland Avenue is a former Western Electric facility, before the telephone business was deregulated, that facility made every Bell telephone used in the US East of the Mississippi River. Obviously the telephone business is gone. The building has been re purposed into a group of small businesses and an indoor paint ball facility.
I worked many years at the IH/Navistar Engine Plant and Foundry on Brookville Road on the SE side of Indy. The Engine Plant closed in 2007 and the Foundry in 2010. There to the buildings have been leveled.
Manufacturing jobs, gone.

 

[qkcuda]

Speaking of teardown engines, was there a reason why some engines were water tested, and received the WT stamp? Was that due to a casting concern? I ask because my 361 had a cylinder head with a casting defect that was ground out and it also had a WT stamp.

 

[my68barracuda]

Speaking of teardown engines, was there a reason why some engines were water tested, and received the WT stamp? Was that due to a casting concern? I ask because my 361 had a cylinder head with a casting defect that was ground out and it also had a WT stamp.

View attachment 1715899445

Typically, after the machining was complete but prior to assembly all the blocks and heads went through an automated air test called a Pressure Decay Test. In that the water jacket cavities were pressurized at some low psi, maybe 10 PSI, then the automated equipment monitored how fast the air pressure dropped off. This was done knowing that it would be impossible to 100% seal the external openings. There was a standard allowance of some pressure drop. Typically that allowance would something like 5 cc per minute. For the blocks or heads that failed the automated pressure decay test, they would then go to a manual water test station. Where the parts external opening would be sealed, the water jacket pressurized, again at a low PSI then the part was submerged in water ( with an antirust component in it ). Being in water one could then see where the leak was coming from, or perhaps no leak would be observed or perhaps as what looks to be the case in the post above, some defect was ground out, the part was tested under water and found to not leak and was subsequently sent on for assembly.
Since the part was stamped WT, the assumption can be made that the water test was used as the acceptance criteria. IH/Navistar also did that at one point in time. However as the water test was a human based acceptance and there is always differences in human skill and observance , in the 90's the decision was made that all parts accepted off the water test had to go back to the automated Pressure Decay Test for final acceptance. The water test was still used, but only to identify leak location, parts were not accepted for assembly off the water test. Parts that passed the water ( or Dunk Test as it was called) had to go back through the automated Pressure Decay Test and pass that prior to being released for assembly.
Modern incarnations of Pressure Decay test equipment can test the water jacket cavity separate from the Intake and Exhaust cavities and then in turn tests the intake and exhaust separate as well as test separately internal fuel passages.

 

[krazykuda]

Where were these engines made(cast), and assembled? Would it be the same city/location or were they cast at a foundry then shipped to an assembly plant?
Thanks again

I believe the small blocks were build at Mound Road Engine Plant in Detroit across the street from Warren Truck Assembly plant at 8 mile and Mound Road...

In the 90's the 318 was built in Mound Road Assembly and the 360 was built in Mexico...

The slant 6, big block, and Hemi were built in Trenton Engine in Trenton, MI....


I believe that the castings were done at Indy Foundry like my68barracuda has posted....

Then engine assembly plants would then shipped assembled engines to each car assembly plant.... The car plants would assemble the accessories on the engines on the engine dress lines before dropping them in the cars... Like alternators, pulleys, etc....

 

[krazykuda]

Speaking of teardown engines, was there a reason why some engines were water tested, and received the WT stamp? Was that due to a casting concern? I ask because my 361 had a cylinder head with a casting defect that was ground out and it also had a WT stamp.

View attachment 1715899445

When I was in the engine plant, the heads and blocks had an air test incorporated in the end of the machining line to verify that the water jackets did not leak before sending them to the assembly line... Every block and head were leak tested before going to the engine assembly line to verify that the castings and freeze plugs were properly sealed... That way we did not have to tear down an engine for a block or head water jacket leak... It's better to catch it before it gets to the motor line... If it had a leaking freeze plug, they would repair it and send it back through the air test... If the casting was bad, the block or head was scrapped... Every head and block had to pass air test before getting sent to the engine assembly line... That way we didn't have to tear down an assembled engine for those leaks...


There were also two leak tests on the engine assembly line to test for leaks... One at the end of the short block assembly section, and another when they were built up long blocks with intakes on them.... The first one test the crank case and catch leaking rear seals and oil pans... The second one would catch leaking intakes, fuel injectors, valve covers, and any other crank case leaks...