Well, looks like I should have looked over the brakes before buying the Dart. Had a reputable shop do an inspection and the news was not good: Shoes/drums/cylinders and a leaking axle seal. I knew the shocks and bushing were bad, which was confirmed, but I can do that stuff as I get to it. My question is, and I know it always comes down to personal preference but here goes. Have the shop do the axle seal and brakes for $1,200 or order parts and do the work myself back to stock or the big question, disc conversion? How much difference in manual disc vs drums? Don't really want to go power and it seems like a light car and well adjusted drums should work fine. Another option would be to have them replace the axle seal as that seems like a bigger PITA and then I can get parts this week and do the work this weekend. I do need to get this thing on the road, safely, as my wife's daily so time is a bit of an issue as well. Thanks for any thoughts, mostly wanted to vent a bit. :banghead:
First Project on the new dart Scarebird Conversion?
- Thread starter TexinCali
- Start date
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zac_F71
Well-Known Member
A Scarebird conversion could be done in a weekend if you had all the correct parts and a drill press ready to go.. if you didn't have all the parts or the drill press it could not be done
Depending on the size of drums the car has the 10" discs would be a huge upgrade for sure- the axle seal would be the easiest of the problems though IMO
I have everything for a Scarebird 10" disc swap for 9" drum spindles I'm looking to sell all brand new (everything but hub bearing covers) but it's BBP (5x4.5")
Depending on the size of the drum brakes - parts could be hard to find - if 9x1.5" they're nolonger made - they're 9x1.75" now so new drums and shoes are a must or go to disc's
Depending on the size of drums the car has the 10" discs would be a huge upgrade for sure- the axle seal would be the easiest of the problems though IMO
I have everything for a Scarebird 10" disc swap for 9" drum spindles I'm looking to sell all brand new (everything but hub bearing covers) but it's BBP (5x4.5")
Depending on the size of the drum brakes - parts could be hard to find - if 9x1.5" they're nolonger made - they're 9x1.75" now so new drums and shoes are a must or go to disc's
I went ahead and had both axle seals and bearings changed out, got it back today but have still not decided what to do with brakes.
Looks more and more like just re building all the drums is the way to go for now, I can spend any extra $$ on bushings and other needed items.
Thanks for the input
Looks more and more like just re building all the drums is the way to go for now, I can spend any extra $$ on bushings and other needed items.
Thanks for the input
charger426
Well-Known Member
I just bought everything to do the Scarbird conversation on my dart. I'm doing it more to insure I have consistent stopping power. While I've never personally experanced brake fade the last thing I want to do is experance it when I need my brakes the most. Drum brakes are more efficient than disks but they hold heat and as a result more suspetable to brake fade. To each there own but for me 375 for new drilled and slotted rotors with carbonfiber/ceramic was a great deal if you ask me.
Totally agree, I don't want any surprises, especially with my wife driving might be cheap piece of mind.
So all things being equal; properly adjusted, good condition, dry and cool, will the disc and drums both have equal stopping performance with the same pedal pressure on a non-power setup?
So all things being equal; properly adjusted, good condition, dry and cool, will the disc and drums both have equal stopping performance with the same pedal pressure on a non-power setup?
charger426
Well-Known Member
From all of my experance and research the first stop will be easyer with drums. However, drums are only good for a few hard stops before they become dangerous. Disks on the other hand can cool off faster thus being more consistent. In my experance the difference in braking performance is marginal but the cooling ability of disks is what sold me on doing the switch. Now another thing that is in disk brakes favor is doing a pad change takes about the time as does shoes on drums. Also even with the chevy celebrity calipers in the Scarbird kit have a good amount of pad choices to let you tailor your brakes to what you want them to do (longer life vs stopping power).
charger 426 - that is well layed out logic and as I have searched this topic the last couple of days one thing seems pretty consistent: those who go with the scarebird system seem to really like it. I may swing back that direction we will see.
Well, took things apart this weekend to look it over for myself, and the shop was mostly right. Fronts do need to be changed but not critical, no leaky cylinders, some shoe left. back is a different story one cylinder leaking and shoes cracked both sides, the MC is also leaking.
While I was under the back I pulled out the PO installed air shocks, and went with some budget Monroe's.
So plan is replace everything in back get a couple of months on it and then hopefully up grade probably scarebird.
Question is: can I upgrade master to a disc/drum now and have it work drum/drum for a little while?
Thanks!!
While I was under the back I pulled out the PO installed air shocks, and went with some budget Monroe's.
So plan is replace everything in back get a couple of months on it and then hopefully up grade probably scarebird.
Question is: can I upgrade master to a disc/drum now and have it work drum/drum for a little while?
Thanks!!
After spending way to long and too much time searching for options I finally pulled the trigger and just ordered my scarebird brackets! Going to source the rest of the parts locally or Rock Auto.
Just made sense for my needs and budget, wish me luck!!
Just made sense for my needs and budget, wish me luck!!
charger426
Well-Known Member
Nice man. PM me if you want my parts list from RockAuto.
Looks like the brackets are 1-2 weeks out, then I will be doing some family time so it will be after the first of the year before it gets done. Charger426 I will let you know if I have any parts questions, thanks
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Good choice since your wife will drive the car, especially if she doesn't know how to drive on mountain roads. Drums work fine for competent drivers. Most aren't, which is why front disks were mandated in 1973. After driving way up a mountain road behind us, I asked my brother-in-law if he knew how to go back down. He had never heard of down-shifting to a low gear to let the engine slow the car and take the heat. A new rental car, but even disk brakes can fade and let you go off the side. He has lived only in Florida.
Hankrebel
Well-Known Member
IM new to the A body and have been researching the disc brake conversion. Scarebird seems to be everyone's choice.
My question is why do you need a drill press. I thought their kit was bolt on?
My question is why do you need a drill press. I thought their kit was bolt on?
66Dvert
Working on my custom car parts again!
it is except for the small or big bolt pattern choice. plus you don't have to align the car after putting them on if your suspension is good and already aligned.
the drill press is to convert either your hubs 9" or 10" with the small bolt pattern to large bolt pattern (hard to do at home but you can).
OR to drill the rotors which have the 4.5 Big bolt pattern already to the smaller 5 on 4" small bolt pattern and keep your existing wheels. that way you don't have small bolt pattern on the rears and big bolt pattern on the front.
A pattern is supplied with the brackets to do the rotor drilling, easier to do with a drill press at home
It's easier to get a machine shop to do the 4.5 bolt pattern on the hub after you remove the studs on your hubs. Mine cost me 12.50 per hub to get done this last time 2.50 per hole drilled at tapped. my rears had already been re-drilled. I recommend screw in studs too they work great.
Doing the Big bolt pattern cost me a bit more in getting new rims (really swiped them off a b body that went to steelies) but kept the tires on the old rally that went on my dart.
BBP gives you a major jump in choosing what tire rim combo you want to use. small bolt pattern is sort of limited. if your on a strict budget drill the rotors for SBP and save up for the drilling to BBP and new wheels when you have time. Best of both worlds then.
Magiver
Well-Known Member
Just a quick question. After converting to 10" disc and drilling for a 5x4" bolt pattern will 14" rims still fit?
I want to do the same thing to my 68 Dart. I have a beautiful set of 14" rims I'd like to keep.
I want to do the same thing to my 68 Dart. I have a beautiful set of 14" rims I'd like to keep.
OUTLAW
Master of All Mopars
I did the Scarebird conversion about 5 years ago when they first come out with it. I just bought the plates and sourced the calipers and rotors from local parts house. I have less than $250 in the complete swap and haven't had one problem with them. I didn't change the proportioning valve they recommended but did use a non power disc brake master cylinder and my Cuda stops straight and true from any speed.With low to normal pedal effort. Highly recommend this swap. Only thing I wish I had done was to drill hubs for the 5x4.5 bolt pattern, so now I have 5x4" with 14" wheels in front and 5x4.5 with 15" x 14" wheels in back
plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
My 14" rally wheels still fit fine after the swap.
66Dvert
Working on my custom car parts again!
my SBP setup didn't fit the steel rims I had, but others have said theirs fit. Mine were the super narrow rims something on the order of 4-4.5 inch 66 v8 econobox tires and not the wider rims.
My LBP rallys fit too but one set of normal 14 steel rims didn't fit and one did. I think the one set that fit was a wider rim from a later model mopar or ford but they were big bolt pattern
66Dvert
Working on my custom car parts again!
the 68's should have the bigger style rims than the early A's 63-66 somewhere in the 5 to 5.5 rims and should fit. Ask the tire experts on the board here to make sure. my narrow rims did not fit. but my wider rim spare did,wish I had 3 more of them.
charger426
Well-Known Member
I'm still using my stock steel wheels with my conversation. Had to grind on the caliper but it took less than a min to get it ground down to fit the wheels.
Hankrebel
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the info guys!
Im going to pull the trigger on the whole kit and keep it at the SBP.
It currently has a set of Cragar SS wheels that I like and will just get them re-chromed later.
Im going to pull the trigger on the whole kit and keep it at the SBP.
It currently has a set of Cragar SS wheels that I like and will just get them re-chromed later.
Hankrebel
Well-Known Member
Outlaw, do you remember what master cylinder part number is?
FINALLY! Started this project 2 months ago and then the proverbial all you know what broke loose, tons of work, a good thing, baseball and softball started for the kids etc. etc.
But managed a few odd hours here and there and finally got it back on the road today, and before any one asks, I did not take pictures, just did not think of it.
Anyway just wanted to add to the satisfied Scarebird customers, a little more grinding on the calipers than I expected but the 14" steelies clear fine and stopping is no longer an adventure.
Actually the front end re-build was much more time consuming than the disc conversion.
Also as I know this question comes up a lot I used my existing dual reservoir master, which was replaced maybe 6mos ago when I did the back drums, and seems to be fine at this point. I will probably change it out one of these days maybe even go power but initially seems to be fine.
Thanks to everyone that helped me get this far, on to the next project!!
But managed a few odd hours here and there and finally got it back on the road today, and before any one asks, I did not take pictures, just did not think of it.
Anyway just wanted to add to the satisfied Scarebird customers, a little more grinding on the calipers than I expected but the 14" steelies clear fine and stopping is no longer an adventure.
Actually the front end re-build was much more time consuming than the disc conversion.
Also as I know this question comes up a lot I used my existing dual reservoir master, which was replaced maybe 6mos ago when I did the back drums, and seems to be fine at this point. I will probably change it out one of these days maybe even go power but initially seems to be fine.
Thanks to everyone that helped me get this far, on to the next project!!
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