For better drivability, replace M1 with Weiand from craigslist?

[JoesEdge]

Okay, I'm going to have to try all these tips next weekend. I work from 10 am to 7 pm so it's too dark when I get home to work on it. This morning I went to the junk yard and found a 74 Valiant that I pulled some parts off of. Just some interior stuff.

Thanks for all the help! I'll chime in next weekend and maybe I'll have more pics and videos of the timing adjustment.

 

[JoesEdge]

Ok, so here's some updates. I purchased a timing light and vacuum gauge from Amazon.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPINHA/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]Actron CP7802 Vacuum and Fuel Pressure Tester Kit[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVYH72/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]INNOVA 3551 Inductive Timing Light[/ame]


I also picked up an Edelbrock Air Gap intake at the Long Beach High Performance Swapmeet. Although, it had a npt pipe sticking out of the bypass port. I tried removing it, but it won't budge. I fear that forcing it would destroy the threads on the aluminum. I'd rather replace it with the proper fitting in stainless steel.

Initially, the engine had a bout 5 lbs of vacuum, after bumping it up I got nearly 10 lbs. I took a video.

I sort of timed it by ear and buy guessing. I'll have to use the advice given to find TDC and then getting the proper timing tape for the circumference of the damper.

Attached you'll see pictures of the Holley model number. Also, the MSD distributor (says MSD on the cap, but still need to ID the part number on their site), Edelbrock Air Gap (and the damn pipe that refuses to come out).

Here's a video of the vacuum and how the engine sounds.

[ame="http://youtu.be/YaVz2jfNxAs"]http://youtu.be/YaVz2jfNxAs[/ame]

 

[goldduster318]

Wow, only 10 in Hg and a bouncing needle at 1500rpm idle? I would have thought you could have gotten that at 850-1000rpm. Does that thing just have a really big cam or something?

I'd be worried about there being something wrong with that bouncing needle. Like maybe a valve that's adjusted too tightly?

 

[JoesEdge]

Wow, only 10 in Hg and a bouncing needle at 1500rpm idle? I would have thought you could have gotten that at 850-1000rpm. Does that thing just have a really big cam or something?

I'd be worried about there being something wrong with that bouncing needle. Like maybe a valve that's adjusted too tightly?

I'm suspecting is has a pretty aggressive cam, but I don't know the specs. That's how it was when I bought it.

I don't know if the cam is mechanical, or hydraulic. I'm assuming hydraulic. I haven't adjusted valves since I worked on a '69 Beetle when I was a kid, so not sure of the procedure for this engine. Any tips?

So are you saying that I should have more vacuum? Where should it be at? When I took the video, I didn't turn back the idle screw on the carb. Now it idles at about 1,000 RPM but it's still pretty rough like before and of course the vacuum goes down.

I did use a very small vacuum port on the carb. It was the only one I can find other than the on for the brake booster. Should I try that one instead?

 

[goldduster318]

It may or may not have adjusters - most of the stock rockers don't. If it doesn't have adjustment, its a hydraulic cam. Without knowing the cam, who knows what the vacuum would be, but if its a really, really big cam, the driveablity will never be all that great. Can you take the oil cap off and take a picture of the rockers?

The vacuum port you are using is the one that is on the base plate, below the front fuel bowl, right? If so, that's the correct one.

 

[JoesEdge]

It may or may not have adjusters - most of the stock rockers don't. If it doesn't have adjustment, its a hydraulic cam. Without knowing the cam, who knows what the vacuum would be, but if its a really, really big cam, the driveablity will never be all that great. Can you take the oil cap off and take a picture of the rockers?

The vacuum port you are using is the one that is on the base plate, below the front fuel bowl, right? If so, that's the correct one.

Yes, I believe that's the port I used. Towards the front of the engine. It's pretty skinny.

As far as the picture. I'll try to have that tomorrow morning. By the time I get home from work, it's pretty dark.

Thanks!

 

[JoesEdge]

So, pulling off the breather cap and plug yielded a surprise. I have roller tipped rockers!!

Here's the pics:

 

[fishy68]

So, pulling off the breather cap and plug yielded a surprise. I have roller tipped rockers!!

Here's the pics:

That's cool but I'd swear it looks like that adjuster is screwed in about as far as it'll go and still get the jam nut on. That would indicate the push rods are way too short.

 

[JoesEdge]

That's cool but I'd swear it looks like that adjuster is screwed in about as far as it'll go and still get the jam nut on. That would indicate the push rods are way too short.

I probably should just take the valve cover off and take better pictures. Also, that way I can see which head casting I have too.

The valve train does sound a bit noisy.

 

[fishy68]

I probably should just take the valve cover off and take better pictures. Also, that way I can see which head casting I have too.

The valve train does sound a bit noisy.

That'd be a good idea. I may be wrong about the adjuster but that's the way it looks from here.

 

[JoesEdge]

That'd be a good idea. I may be wrong about the adjuster but that's the way it looks from here.

That will have to wait until Friday I guess. Let's say the push rod isn't too short. Do the valves need to be adjusted? I guess when I replace the intake I can figure out what type of lifters I have.

 

[MopaR&D]

You can pull a lifter out through the pushrod hole once you take the valve cover and rocker shaft assembly off to find out whether they're hydraulic or solid. Adjusting the valves is pretty easy you just take off the covers and check the lash with a feeler gauge, only "trick" is paying attention to what position the cam is at to make sure the valve being checked is closed fully.

 

[fishy68]

That will have to wait until Friday I guess. Let's say the push rod isn't too short. Do the valves need to be adjusted? I guess when I replace the intake I can figure out what type of lifters I have.

I can't say if they need adjusted. You'll have to check the lash or preload depending on what type lifters you have. Solids need lash (clearance) and hydraulics need preload (the lifter is compressed some. Usually about .040")

In case you don't have it here's a chart that tells you where to have the engine rotated to for checking lifter lash/preload on each valve

 

[JoesEdge]

I wanted to give and update to this thread. Since I started this thread, I picked up an Edelbrock Air Gap intake and I also figured out the lift of my cam and learned that I had a solid lifter (mechanical) camshaft. No wonder why it was so damn noisy!!

It was probably not the most accurate way of measuring, but I rigged up a dial indicator against the push rod (as advised previously) and spun the engine over a few times to make sure my readings were accurate.

I figured the the lobe lift to be around .378 inches. That's around .568 inches with a 1.5:1 rocker arms. My rocker arms appear to be older Comp Cams Magnum steel roller rocker arms. No wonder I had virtually no usable vacuum!!

I didn't degree the cam because the degree wheel I bought (11") would hit the K-frame. Damn it! I might just print one out and put it on something to degree it.

After reading so many good reviews of the Comp Cams XE268H camshaft, I placed an order with Mancini Racing for one and the lifter kit as well. My timing chain looks good and is pretty tight with virtually no slack, so I decided to reuse it.

Hopefully, this should tame the beast and make it more streetable and give me enough vacuum if I decide to go back to Power Brakes, since I just got done converting to Manual Brakes.

Wish me luck!!

 

[krazykuda]

Wish me luck!!

Good Luck...

 

[JoesEdge]

Good Luck...

Thanks! I probably won't get to work on until the following weekend.

 

[pishta]

Joey, I live sort of close and I got something for you.....PM me.

 

[autoxcuda]

You might/probably need new pushrods to go with you new cam and new hydraulic lifter. The cup inside a solid lifter is usually in a different place than a solid lifter.

Need a way to check pushrod length.

 

[JoesEdge]

You might/probably need new pushrods to go with you new cam and new hydraulic lifter. The cup inside a solid lifter is usually in a different place than a solid lifter.

Need a way to check pushrod length.

You mean different than a Hydraulic? So, the cup end on lifters aren't the same between solid and hydraulic?. Damn, that I did not know. Now I'm tempted to call Mancini to cancel the order and just run what I have. I just wanted something more daily driver friendly.

This isn't so friendly:

[ame]http://youtu.be/YaVz2jfNxAs[/ame]

 

[autoxcuda]

You mean different than a Hydraulic? So, the cup end on lifters aren't the same between solid and hydraulic?. Damn, that I did not know. Now I'm tempted to call Mancini to cancel the order and just run what I have. I just wanted something more daily driver friendly.

This isn't so friendly:

http://youtu.be/YaVz2jfNxAs

It might, it might not. You need to check.

The mechanical cam you have now is aggressive for street/farting around driving and needs you to watch , monitor, and adjust the tune of the car. For some it's not a big deal and comes second nature. If they can hear a little change, they know what direction to go. Seems like you are pushing the limits your tuning experience. Walk, then run.

Pushrods aren't that expensive from Smith Bros.

 

[JoesEdge]

It might, it might not. You need to check.

The mechanical cam you have now is aggressive for street/farting around driving and needs you to watch , monitor, and adjust the tune of the car. For some it's not a big deal and comes second nature. If they can hear a little change, they know what direction to go. Seems like you are pushing the limits your tuning experience. Walk, then run.

Pushrods aren't that expensive from Smith Bros.

Yeah, I'm reaching both the limits of my experience and patience. lol But, if I'm patient and take things step by step, I'll get it running right. First step is the cam, get that in, check the springs, replace if necessary, then proper geometry.

There's just so many damn variables that it's making my head spin right now.

One thing that worries me is that when I pulled the rocker shafts, the smaller holes were facing up. Those are the oil holes, right? Those should be pointing/facing down, right? Isn't there a left and right shaft? How do I know the difference?

I should probably start a thread on Camshaft, spring, and rocker install since this way off the topic of drivability.

 

[fishy68]

There are 2 different length pushrods for the adjustable rocker arms. One for a hydraulic lifter with adjustable rocker arms and a longer pushrod for a solid lifter with adjustable rockers. The solid lifter pushrod seat is deeper requiring a longer pushrod. It most likely has hydraulic pushrods in it now and that's why the adjuster is screwed so far in.

Your right the oil holes should be pointing down. Look on the end of the rocker shaft and you'll see a notch ground in it. I believe the notch should be on the lower front on the drivers side and lower rear on the pass side. That'll put the oiling hole orientation down and towards the exhaust side of the heads

 

[JoesEdge]

There are 2 different length pushrods for the adjustable rocker arms. One for a hydraulic lifter with adjustable rocker arms and a longer pushrod for a solid lifter with adjustable rockers. The solid lifter pushrod seat is deeper requiring a longer pushrod. It most likely has hydraulic pushrods in it now and that's why the adjuster is screwed so far in.

Your right the oil holes should be pointing down. Look on the end of the rocker shaft and you'll see a notch ground in it. I believe the notch should be on the lower front on the drivers side and lower rear on the pass side. That'll put the oiling hole orientation down and towards the exhaust side of the heads

Thanks for the info!

I went to the wrecking yard last weekend and checked out a few MOPARs and you're right about the notches. I checked a few cars and that's how they were setup.

I went initially to see if I can find an oil tab to salvage since it seems that I'm missing that. That's when I realized that 1) I forgot my my balancer puller, and 2) I didn't have a way to stop an engine from turning over when trying to remove the crank bolt.

I may go again when I have more time. I try to get too much done in one day. I did find a late 60's 4 door Roadrunner, well at least it looked like one. It was pretty chopped up though. That's the car where I realized I didn't have my puller and I couldn't stop the engine from turning over.

 

[moparclown]

The pipe nipple looks like it might have aviation cement on the threads?If thats the case I would heat it up a little bit with a propane torch as that will allow it to soften up and use a pipe wrench:thumleft: should come right out.
What are your plans for the cam and lifters that your pulling out?
And was that the timing chain oiler tab that you are looking for?
Thanks Doug

 

[JoesEdge]

The pipe nipple looks like it might have aviation cement on the threads?If thats the case I would heat it up a little bit with a propane torch as that will allow it to soften up and use a pipe wrench:thumleft: should come right out.
What are your plans for the cam and lifters that your pulling out?
And was that the timing chain oiler tab that you are looking for?
Thanks Doug

Hey Doug!

I actually did heat up the pipe nipple and got that off. I'm planning on selling that intake as I'm replacing it was an Edelbrock Air-Gap intake that I bought at the Long Beach Hi-Po swapmeet. It came off exactly how you said too. Pretty easy!

I'm going carefully pull out the lifters, and store them exactly how they came out out of the block, and of course pull out the cam. After installing and testing the new cam and lifters and everything is good I'll probably sell the cam and lifters.

Yes, I'm looking for the oiler tab because it's plainly not there and that sort of worries me.

I did order a Oil Slinger from Mancini along with my Cam and Lifter kit. I figure that's extra protection. I don't know if I have a bolt with the hole through it holding down the thrust plate because I haven't removed my timing chain yet.

I'm also worried about my springs. I don't know the specs of them and am thinking of replacing them, but first maybe I should pull a couple off and have them checked. If they're within specs, then I'll leave them in.

I wish I had a tool to just check the specs without having to remove them.