Front suspension 65 Barracuda Just starting...

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JeffreyLee

JeffreyLee

1965 Barracuda
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
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meridian Id
I have a nice 65 Cuda that I am starting to refresh myself with no real prior experience doing front end work. I've watched alot of videos and I think I understand things well enough. I originally did not want to go to the expense of converting to front discs, but if I go ahead and replace suspension parts, changing to discs doesn't seem like much of a stretch. It looks like I need a front end rebuild kit along with some lower control arm work. I have read about adding a stiffening plate to the lower control arm, I'm just not sure where to stop here. Pivot shaft replacement? Upon close inspection, the bushings on the strut rod are completely disintegrated, so I am sure that I need to replace those along with every other bushing that is beaten up. Is there any reason to replace the strut rod itself? It's not damaged in any way.
From what I can tell, it seems that a new upper control arm, maybe a tubular style with ball joints is a common, smart replacement. Shocks of course, Once you start taking things apart, it seems that you can just keep going and going and adding alot of expense. I'm not afraid to spend some money on my car, but I want to be smart about it too! By the way, the thickish undercoating behind the fenders is peeling away in big chunks. Should I re-spray that as part of my process here?
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Any general rules of thumb guidance for me?
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If the suspension is original, it will be in similar shape as those strut rod bushings - I would plan on doing both upper and lower control arm bushings as well as the strut rod bushings. Do new ball joints during the rebuild. While everything is apart, install new tie rods, idler and pitman arms and you will have everything brand new. You might find the steering box could use freshening up as well. On my wagon, everything is being replaced and the steering box upgraded to Steer and Gear's Stage 3 (new car feel) so it ought to drive pretty good.
 
I purchased a kit from PST for my 65 Barracuda. Everything together for a good price. Most of the suspension is fairly easy to just remove and replace parts.
 
You will find that once everything is back together, most of the slop will be gone. I say most because back when these cars were new, the goal of automakers was different back then as compared to today. It used to be desireable to have super easy, NO effort steering. Todays cars have smaller steering wheels, tighter ratios and a higher steering effort. You can get that feeling with an older car, it just takes a slightly different approach.
I didn't see you mention if this is a power steering car. If not, the manual steering cars have a ratio that is very slow. The ratio is approx 20 to 1. These require about 5 1/2 turns from full left to full right. You can buy NEW 16 to 1 box. This one change will to 1 steering boxes that close that gap to 3 1/2 turns lock to lock. In a light car, this makes a huge improvement and if you are of average strength, it should not pose a problem steering at low speeds.
Another thing that makes new car steering feel better is the front end alignment settings they are built with. Have you ever noticed how after making a U turn, the newer car steering wheel automatically wants to return to center? This is partly due to CASTER. THis is important and to get more CASTER from an old Mopar, consider replacing the UPPER control arm bushings with the following brand: Moog K-7103. Do a google search on them on how they are to be installed as many shop/machinist guys are just not keen on it. This ONE change will be a great step towards a better feeling, responding and handling car.
Good luck and PLEASE make sure to respond with updates on your progress. What we do can often help others here.
 
Last edited:
Kern Dog said:
You will find that once everything is back together, most of the slop will be gone. I say most because back when these cars were new, the goal of automakers was different back then as compared to today. It used to be desireable to have super easy, NO effort steering. Todays cars have smaller steering wheels, tighter ratios and a higher steering effort. You can get that feeling with an older car, it just takes a slightly different approach.
I didn't see you mention if this is a power steering car. If not, the manual steering cars have a ratio that is very slow. The ratio is approx 20 to 1. These require about 5 1/2 turns from full left to full right. You can buy NEW 16This one change will to 1 steering boxes that close that gap to 3 1/2 turns lock to lock. In a light car, this makes a huge improvement and if you are of average strength, it should not pose a problem steering at low speeds.
Another thing that makes new car steering feel better is the front end alignment settings they are built with. Have you ever noticed how after making a U turn, the newer car steering wheel automatically wants to return to center? This is partly due to CASTER. THis is important and to get more CASTER from an old Mopar, consider replacing the UPPER control arm bushings with the following brand: Moog K-7103. Do a google search on them on how they are to be installed as many shop/machinist guys are just not keen on it. This ONE change will be a great step towards a better feeling, responding and handling car.
Good luck and PLEASE make sure to respond with updates on your progress. What we do can often help others here.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice guys...The car does have power steering which I am grateful for. It is pretty loose feeling though. I understand that there is an adjustment available on the top of the power steering box that can help. I have not seen any details about that on this web site aside from the mention. The PTS kit looks like a decent choice and it comes recommended by many others, so I think I will look into that one. Before I order parts though, I have to decide about the disc brake conversion...another 6-700.00. What do you think?
 
cudajames said:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018LMAVBG/?tag=joeychgo-20

I just completed doing must of the work you are heading for. This separator kit was well worth the money

PST is awesome. If you are doing the tie-rods- the steel sleeve is worth the extra money

good luck
Click to expand...
Is there any real good reason to replace the upper control arms and/or rebuilding the lower control arms? Also, the PST kit does not come with the pitman arm...not sure what a pitman arm is or does, but is it important to replace? It seems that if PST doesn't include it in their kit, then it is not too necessary. still debating the disc brake conversion. The Kelsy-Hayes version seems to be the one that a majority of FABO members reccomend. Everything just adds $$ to this project...
 
The pitman arm connects to the steering box and center link; FWIW the idler arm is on the other side connected to the center link and bracket on the K Frame - making the steering basically a parallelogram
 
These cars were designed to be light, reliable and cheap. They were also originally designed as Slant six ONLY, so the suspension, brakes and steering was built around the performance expected from those engines.
9 inch drum brakes, 7/16" wheel lug studs, no sway bar, 7 1/4" axles....All of it is totally fine....Until you add a V8, bigger tires and then drive the car on a super busy street with lots of stop and go action. In 1965 (The year that I was born) I can only guess that stop and go driving only occurred in big cities or someplace where there was a traffic collision.
Okay...
ALL 1960-1972 A body cars were built with the same, unusually small wheel bolt pattern. (Except some rare 1968 Race Darts and Barracuda models) This 5 bolt pattern is on a 4 inch circle. In 1973, a larger pattern was available that was on a larger 4 1/2" circle which matched ALL B body cars, E body, 2 wheel drive 1/2 ton trucks and vans....The same pattern was used at FORD. Many of todays aftermarket front disc brake kits use THIS larger pattern since it is what most people want. You can use this on your 65 but then the wheel pattern of your rear axle is still going to be the 4 inch version. Some people often change the rear axle to a 73-76 model with the larger pattern to have 4 matching wheel patterns. I have a 65 Dart that I am working on and this is what I am going to do.
 
I'm personally going to use in my hopped up slant Dart wagon 73-76 A Body disc brakes, a Hellwig 1 & 1/8 in front sway bar, completely rebuilt suspension with Moog offset UCA bushing and for the rear an A Body 8.75 with shortened and re-splined LBP truck axles and 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on a kit supplied by another member. I also have a 76 A Body cop car rear sway bar that I'll use as well. I like the kit so much I will probably do the same conversion on my 47 with a 71 B Body 8.75.
 
Kern Dog said:
These cars were designed to be light, reliable and cheap. They were also originally designed as Slant six ONLY, so the suspension, brakes and steering was built around the performance expected from those engines.
9 inch drum brakes, 7/16" wheel lug studs, no sway bar, 7 1/4" axles....All of it is totally fine....Until you add a V8, bigger tires and then drive the car on a super busy street with lots of stop and go action. In 1965 (The year that I was born) I can only guess that stop and go driving only occurred in big cities or someplace where there was a traffic collision.
Okay...
ALL 1960-1972 A body cars were built with the same, unusually small wheel bolt pattern. (Except some rare 1968 Race Darts and Barracuda models) This 5 bolt pattern is on a 4 inch circle. In 1973, a larger pattern was available that was on a larger 4 1/2" circle which matched ALL B body cars, E body, 2 wheel drive 1/2 ton trucks and vans....The same pattern was used at FORD. Many of todays aftermarket front disc brake kits use THIS larger pattern since it is what most people want. You can use this on your 65 but then the wheel pattern of your rear axle is still going to be the 4 inch version. Some people often change the rear axle to a 73-76 model with the larger pattern to have 4 matching wheel patterns. I have a 65 Dart that I am working on and this is what I am going to do.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, very clear and easy for a nube like me to understand. I've seen a lot of info about the 4 1/2" vs the 4" pattern and it finally makes sense!
 
JeffreyLee said:
Is there any real good reason to replace the upper control arms and/or rebuilding the lower control arms? Also, the PST kit does not come with the pitman arm...not sure what a pitman arm is or does, but is it important to replace? It seems that if PST doesn't include it in their kit, then it is not too necessary. still debating the disc brake conversion. The Kelsy-Hayes version seems to be the one that a majority of FABO members reccomend.
Click to expand...

The upper control arms need no replacement unless they are bent, damaged or severely rusty.
The Pitman arm attaches to the output shaft of the steering box at the bottom. They only need replacement if they show excessive wear. Look where the pitman attaches to the center link. (It spans across the bottom of the oil pan) If you can easily wiggle the center link near the drivers side, the end of the Pitman may be worn out.
 
JeffreyLee said:
I have a nice 65 Cuda that I am starting to refresh myself with no real prior experience doing front end work. I've watched alot of videos and I think I understand things well enough. I originally did not want to go to the expense of converting to front discs, but if I go ahead and replace suspension parts, changing to discs doesn't seem like much of a stretch. It looks like I need a front end rebuild kit along with some lower control arm work. I have read about adding a stiffening plate to the lower control arm, I'm just not sure where to stop here. Pivot shaft replacement? Upon close inspection, the bushings on the strut rod are completely disintegrated, so I am sure that I need to replace those along with every other bushing that is beaten up. Is there any reason to replace the strut rod itself? It's not damaged in any way.
From what I can tell, it seems that a new upper control arm, maybe a tubular style with ball joints is a common, smart replacement. Shocks of course, Once you start taking things apart, it seems that you can just keep going and going and adding alot of expense. I'm not afraid to spend some money on my car, but I want to be smart about it too! By the way, the thickish undercoating behind the fenders is peeling away in big chunks. Should I re-spray that as part of my process here? View attachment 1715101993 Any general rules of thumb guidance for me?
View attachment 1715101990 View attachment 1715101991View attachment 1715101992
Click to expand...
I put a PST kit on my 65 in South Dakota and it made it a new car.
 
Todays radial tires need different alignment caster/camber set up that isn't quite achievable with OEM parts. Aftermarkets tubular upper arms may or may not have some added offset in them (I dont know). If your upper arms are fine for reuse, Moogs offset upper arm bushings will get you there and cost less too.
 
All your stock control arms will be fine with new bushings. You will probably need to replace the lower ball joints, idler arm, pitman arm, and outer tie rod ends. I would add a front sway bar kit and good shocks also, I have Bilsteins. You might want to add .88 torsion bars and HD 6 leaf rear springs to mimic a Formula S suspension. Replace your seals on every joint and get someone really good to do the front alignment. They will get it where it will work just fine with good radial tires. I used to use polygraphite bushings, but am much happier with rubber bushings now and my 66 Formula S Barracuda rides and handles great.
 
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