Fuel economy issues

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7dswinger

MOPAR's rule
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I installed the EZ EFI system along with an MSD electronic ignition in an attempt to get better fuel economy with performance.
Neither has really happened so far even though I've been tuning the whole system. I'm getting something like 8 to 10 mpg from a 318 that's pretty much stock. Any ideas on how I can get the mileage up?
Also does any one know of a good engine shop in the Bay Area?
Thanks
 
I installed the EZ EFI system along with an MSD electronic ignition in an attempt to get better fuel economy with performance.
Neither has really happened so far even though I've been tuning the whole system. I'm getting something like 8 to 10 mpg from a 318 that's pretty much stock. Any ideas on how I can get the mileage up?
Also does any one know of a good engine shop in the Bay Area?
Thanks

Post some details, int. manifold, rear gears. Has the engine ever been gone thru, compression, cam changed or exhaust mods. If it's truly a stock engine i would think timing would be the biggest issue as far as mileage. I'm not completely up to speed, but doesn't the EZ system learn the tune by itself?
 
Well my experience is as follows
A body at maybe 3200-3400 lbs
3.45 gear on a 26.75 rear tyre
904 with 3200 flash convertor
318 fresh roller la motor
9.5 comp
222/228 hyd roller
EQ mag heads
Block hugger headers

EZ EFI multipoint on MP M1 manifold
Used 36lb injectors (hadnt been cleaned)

MSD 6AL digital, initial at 18 total 36 all in at 2500 rpm

I only have accurate consumption of a highway run
Cruising at 100-110 km/k (63-70 mph) revs @ 31-3300rpm approx
it would return 15-16 mpg

Around town it was some 9.5-12 mpg in traffic using quite a bit of throttle

I had cruise AF target at 14.9, idle at 14.4 power at 13.5

It had a bit of a hesitation and back fire going to WOT sometimes due to the lean settings. If i had targets richer it was much smoother but economy suffered. I ended up running above leaner conditions on long trips/highway use and richer in the city here running to work.

Make SURE you have no exhaust leaks before the oxy sensor as it will see a lean mixture and richen it up.

LA heads will use more fuel than a magnum head just note

If you have any questions feel free as i have had a few of these systems
 
Might want to contact Richard at FASTMANEFI, he very well might be able to help you out....
 
I have not clue what the specs are on the engine or the car. I have gone through the compression and it's near perfect. OldmanRick what I do know is this:
Manifold: Weind dual plane
Distributer: MSD E-Curve
Ignition: MSD 6A box and Blaster SS coil and Super Conductor wires
Cam: Something other than stock, don't' know what it is
Exhaust: Stock iron manifolds feeding bigger single exhaust (new)
Tranny: A904 ( I think it might be dying though)
Rear End: 8 1/4, gears I have no clue
It is a relatively fresh motor but mileage I don't know, oil pressure is very good

L4Staero

So your not running the EZ EFI's fuel body, but instead using multiport injection?
I'm running 15.4 at cruise and around 14.9 at idle right now with no problems (other than horrible fuel economy).

Referring to your timing, I've read that 318's like to idle at TDC or 0 degrees, which is what it says in the manuel for the engine so I'm a little bit surprised that your running 18 total. I do need to time the engine though so that could be a factor.
 
Tranny: A904 ( I think it might be dying though) What makes you say this? If the trans is going bad and slipping or??? This could have a big factor on the mpg .
 
I hate to be "that guy". EFI isn't that special. Sell it and buy a thermoquad or a quadrajet. :D :burnout:
 
Bigger cams require more initial timing.ATDC,or 0 stock,is for emission testing.L4's timing is real close.I run a Magnum 360,run 16 initial,34 total@ 2800 rpm.Try setting your timing first,try like 10 to 12 initial.Should be at least some of your problem there.
 
Bump your initial timing up to 12-14 degrees and feel the engine run like it's supposed to... Just make sure your total timing isn't too high (~35 max). A stock 318 will "kinda" run with 0* advance, any cam bigger than stock (which is really tiny) and it will barely idle.

Also how big is that exhaust? Might see some benefit going to duals but get the tuning sorted out first.

FWIW I average 16 MPG with the engine in my sig with a 2600-stall converter and stock 2.76:1 gears, mostly city driving too.
 
...
Distributer: MSD E-Curve
Ignition: MSD 6A box and Blaster SS coil and Super Conductor wires
...

When did you buy that MSD E-Curve?

I bought two last year and the did not work with the square solid state MSD coil. I talked to MSD at the SEMA show and they said they knew about the problem. Something about the solid state coil messing with the E-Curve electronics. Mine would barely run, and the timing jumped all over. I put a old fashioned oil filled MSD Blaster II coil on and all is fine.

Maybe your MSD 6A Box masks the issue. Or maybe they fixed the issue recently.
 
Most motors LOVE lots of initial as it gives them more torque due to advance at low low rpm.
Just need the starter to spin them over from a start.
If u have a vac advance lots of high vac advance will help fuel economy as 50-60 deg of advance at light throttle will increase torque and lower fuel consumption
 
I installed the EZ EFI system along with an MSD electronic ignition in an attempt to get better fuel economy with performance.
Neither has really happened so far even though I've been tuning the whole system. I'm getting something like 8 to 10 mpg from a 318 that's pretty much stock. Any ideas on how I can get the mileage up?
Also does any one know of a good engine shop in the Bay Area?
Thanks

Put a carburetor back on it.
 
Well, first thing that jumped out at me was the single ext. Not because of flow, but where the O2 sensor is or should be mounted. Curious if it's after the Y-pipe or on the pass. side before it? The heat riser valve may be playing games with the A/F?

Also, power & ground wire direct to battery only.

Slowly bumping the timing and playing with the A/F targets may take some time, but that's probably what it ill take.
 
I read some of the literature on the EZ-EFI. They make claims for power and driveability, I did not see any for economy.

An engine management system that does both EFI and ignition in the box, is an advantage, since there is interplay. With the your system they are both separate.

As others suggest try working with ignition advance. In a self tune EFI system, it learns and needs time to adjust. It also needs various driving conditions to fully complete the maps.
 
Dubob: I'm getting what I think is burning clutch smell after a long drive. I don't know how to tell if it's slipping, though if you put it into drive on a hill it will roll backwards on you if you don't keep on the gas.

HotLines: I am looking at an A518 conversion but if I do that I'm going to switch over to a late model magnum 360

So I guess general thought here is that I need to re-time the engine. I need to get timing tape as the old one is gone at the second. MSD sells a timing tape set but it only lists Chevy engines as begin able to use them and MP only sells ones for big blocks, any one know where I can pick some up for a small block?

AbodyBomber: Is the Magnum 360 your running from a late model Dodge? I'm thinking about pulling a Magnum 360 and A518 from a 90's Dodge Durango or something else.

AutoxCuda: I bought it about two months ago. I haven't seen a problem with it like that but then again I haven't really know about that. I'll see when I time the engine if it jumps around, maybe even contact MSD about that.
You have any tips on setting the curves on it as it's confusing to me. I've read that it works backwards then standard distributors.

L4Staero: I've got no vac adv. so I'll play around with that then.

OldmanRick: It's like 3 to 5 inches behind where the exhaust comes together into one pipe (y pipe?) Heat riser valve, no clue what that is haha.

KitCarlson: Correct on the learning on the EFI system, it does take time to adjust, so far it's been a little over 2 months of driving it.
I'm considering doing a complete conversion to a late model Magnum 360 and put the ECU and everything from the vehicle into my Dart but if I can get this engine to work right that would be my preference at the second.
 
Yes,mine came from a 99 4wd.Kept it 727(cause I'm cheap).There are a couple of ways to go for an OD trans.1:Use the 518,notch the rear tunnel brace.2: Install a 200r4,using an adapter kit.This way,you don't hack the factory sheetmetal.There are two great threads,one for each.Do a search in the drivetrains forum.
 
Spend $20-30 on a rear end gasket and 80w90 gear fluid and count the teeth on the ring and pinion gear and divide them. for example 14 pinion, 42 ring gear 42 divided by 14 = 3 which means you have a 3.00 gear ratio. That will give you your ratio and you can work from there.
 
Abodybomber: So it'll bolt right it then as the engine has the old mounting tabs? Also do you run the EFI from vehicle it came out of? That's a big help knowing about the 200r4 tranny as I'd prefer not to have to hack through sheet metal but I'm now thinking about a manuel conversion...we'll see.
 
I am going to throw some ideas out here.

Did you get this car set up like this?

You don't know what cam, what gears, what your converter stalls at and if or not your transmission is slipping. You have an efi and a race oriented distributor and ignition and are talking about putting in an OD that requires alot of work and modifications .

Sounds like you need a full accurate inventory of your car including the condition of everything.
Then break it down into its individual systems and address each system until it is in optimum tune. This will take some time but it is well worth it.

Post some videos in car driving it thru the gears (try early morning with light traffic) and outside the car while idling and revving up. It may give others more ideas about your machine based on the vids.

If your automatic is slipping, it will produce some very black and stinky transmission fluid. That is also just a symptom of fluid super old and never changed.
Do you have a tach? You can tell when a trans is slipping just by feeling the power and watching the tach.
If you suspect your transmission is messing up, research how to adjust your transmission band and kick-down linkage. Get that figured out properly. Then do a filter and fluid change. Pull the pan, dump the fluid out of the pan but leave the gunk on the bottom of the pan. Run your finger thru it once and post some well illuminated pictures of the goop on your finger and the inside of the pan itself so someone can give you an idea of the deterioration of your trans.
If the fluid is clean and red (transparent red) then you probably dont have any real trans issues and there is no sense in pulling the pan. You may just need trans band and kick-down adjustment.

On the inside of the trans pan: from my experience, fine black muck is debris from toasting clutches, lots of glitter is metal particles. Minimal muck and glitter (a light coating on the bottom of the pan) is normal wear. But 1/8" thick and piled up thicker in various places is a sign of degradation. Chunks of black fibers are clutches falling apart.

There are so many variables that could contribute to a general issue like lack of power or poor fuel economy.

Your mileage issues could be: gearing too low, sloppy high stall torque converter, big ( or improper sized) cam, efi profile or installation issues, exhaust leaks, exhaust clogged, trans failing, engine worn out, timing curves out of whack, cam timing not right. The list probably goes on a fair while.

Heck, your rear brakes could be dragging. You said you smell a clutch burning smell after driving? Or that may be just an oil leak burning on the exhaust.

I too suggest you put a clean nice TQ on there and a good clean properly set up factory distributor and ignition. Establish and understand if your machine is in good working order first before trying aftermarket and advanced modifications or major changes to the car.

Then make one modification at a time and fully get that mod working perfectly, then move on to the next.
.
 
X2, on the last post.Go back to basics,go over the car slowly. Fix whatever doesn't seem right,ask questions here. No, I run a Quick Fuel 750,on a air gap manifold.F.I maybe in the future.As for the trans swap,there is an adapter kit (Wilcap products),that allows a GM trans to bolt up.Google "Wilcap engine adapters", it will pop up.
 
I actually have a pretty good inventory of the car, just not the internals of the tranny, engine or rear gear. I installed the EFI and ignition and then went to a shop and they fixed some issues that the car had as well.
The timing curves are completely out of whack as well as the timing of the car, I know that. The engine is perfectly good, great compression, great oil pressure, doesn't over heat.

I hooked up the vac. adv. today and it seems to be working a little better. I still have to adjust the timing curves as well as re-time the car but I think that was the right direction in that sense.

Rice Nuker: I had a factory ignition on it and that was working fine with the EFI and then I moved onto the ignition. I know it's not totally to do with the EFI but probably with the timing and ignition but, you never know.

Your point on the oil leak brings up something I just discovered. I'm getting oil sprayed on the manifold on the drivers side, if you look at the head theres and hole there and it seems to be coming out of it so I believe I have a bad head gasket, any ideas on what this could be?

valentino automotive: The bung is like 3 to 5 inches behind where the exhaust comes together into one pipe (y pipe?).
 
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