Fuel injection?

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clhyer

clhyer

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I am preparing to redo a '72 Duster. My question tonight concerns the various engine options I can look at. Specifically, I would like to put a newer fuel injected 3.9 V6, or 318. Is there any company which offers a "brain" for this swap? I am not interested in trying to bring all the different sensors over, just a computer which would control the fuel injection. Is there something like this on the market, or is my only choice to get an older engine and go with a retrofit fuel injection package? My goal is to end up with a nice reliable fuel efficient daily driver.
Thanks,
Cal
 
Mopar Performance is coming out with a new computer in 3 stages for an after market efi setup. I think the computer for auto equiped 400 hp range is suppose to be first out about now. Mopar Action has been following this setup. I wrote Richard Ehrenberg (sp) a while back about this regarding a manual trans setup and he said it won't be out untill the end of the year, but the first 400hp Auto kit will be out at the end of Feb.
 
The thing is to use fuel injection you will need some sensors. They serve a purpose in regulating the fuel curve and ignition. Unless you are talking about using a non-computer controlled ignition and then you would just need a few sensors for the fuel injection only. You will still need an oxygen sensor, temperature sensor and a MAP sensor for throttle body fuel injection. If you want to run a sequential type fuel injection then you will need to add a cam postion sensor so the computer knows when to intake valves are open so it can fire the injectors at the right time. The easiest way to monitor the cam postion is with the distributor. So now you are back to the computer distributor. Don't be afraid of sensors, they monitor the engine functions so the computer can adjust the fuel curve for you. The computer can't adjust for different operating conditions if it doesn't know what's going on.

Chuck
 
On a side note, if you're going to go to all that trouble and expense put in a V8, it will be worth way more if you want to sell it. I've had V6's and while they scoot along pretty good they lack the torque of an 8 and they suck gas just as bad. Just my 2 bits. :headbang:
 
Mancinni has the new mopar computers for sale on there site now, there around the same price as the edelbrock setup.You have to use all the sensors and stuff on an EFI setup, they make the system work and tell the computer what it needs to add as far as fuel and spark go.Anyways i think both systems are around 2600 or so and the mopar one as far as i could tell was for the magnum crate engines.EFI isn't cheap.course you could goto a bone yard and pull a computer and everything else you need from a wrecked truck and make it work fairly cheap i guess.
 
If your trying to save money, I would reccomend doing a Megasquirt setup, if you do all the work yourself putting it together you will probably save 1,000 to 1,500.00 over any commercially available setup, but if you don't have the time and you dont have a knack for DIY projects, then the MP or similiar setup is what you will need.
 
I bought my first megasquirt system from SDS. By the time your done buying everything I wouldn't be surprised that it would cost you $2000 or more, and a lot more time. The Mopar kit includes an intake, fuel rail throttle body, 8 injectors, fuel pump, filter, fuel reg, dist, cap rotor, ign wires and all sensors and a control box and wiring harness, all of which is new and leaves no second guessing when it comes to trying to get things running properly.
Where you can save some money with the Megasquirt is if you can get some sensors from the auto wreckers along with a TB. But if you go all new, you will easily spend $2000. and the Megasquirt is a lot of work to get it to run. However once you've done your first Megasquirt, the second will come alot easier. And SDS does give you good advice.

The Mopar kit $2600, P5153590. This kit is for auto equiped 360, 380 to 400 hp.
I think you still have to buy a flex plate, as it doesn't look like it is inclded.

Mopfuleinj.jpg
 
That package doesnt look bad really.

I was going to suggest as a super-budget move, if you have the knowledge, a GM TPI box can run a 318 quite easily, if it's all wired right.
 
Thanks for all the info. Plenty of stuff for me to digest. I am not necessarily intimidated by the electronics - just was hoping for a better (easier) way.
Cal
 
So just grab an entire SMPI (Magnum) engine + computer out of a late 90's truck and leave it stock. Grab the OD tranny too.
 
C130 Chief,
Trust me; I have, and am, looking at that option. Has anyone here done this?
Cal
 
Yup, I help put a 360 SMPI, and auto trans in a 74 Challenger. The trans tunnel does have to be opened up a bit and a new trans mount must be made or modify your old one. The rear of the trans is slightly larger round near the tail shaft. A friend bought a 98 wrecked Pepsi truck, 2 wheel drive.
With the 360, he added TTI heeders, and a Dakota cold air, the car really moves, its just running a stock computer.
The 360 block has the new truck mounts and old style motor mounts cast into the block so it bolts up nice. He is not runing AC, but is running PS. The stock mount for the PS hits the battery tray, so some chages will have to made their. I think he got a ps pump bracket from a van.
I didn't help with much of the motor and trans swap but I did help with the wiring harness conversion. As with any of these types of swaps I would recommend a FSM for the year your working on for the car, and the year of the electronics your using.
 
Keith,
Any pics that can be shared? Do you think there would be the same "fitment" issues going with the 318, or 4.7 into the Duster body? Not asking you to write a book, but what was involved in the electronics swap?
Thanks!
 
Sorry clhyer, I didn't know there was another post after me. The 360 just bolted in and the trans mount was lowered to help clear X member but still hits on the top of the x member where the trans mount bolts to the car, sa this is where the 4 speed is bigger than the original 727 trans. My buddy brother that is a welder for a firm that builds work cubicles and cut the top off the X member where the trans tunnel is and added 1/2 an inch to make it taller and then split the floor added a peice in the top of the tunnel and that gave it enough room to clear. You need to expand the tunnel for about 10 inchs and that gives lots of clearence.

I don't think a 4.7 would be a good as a swap engine as there is no oil pan that would bolt into a car body.

As far as the wiring goes, you need to find out what outputs actually control the engine and what outputs you don't care about. All engine inputs must be wired in, along with speedo sense. Outputs like for the dash were not wired and didn't cause and problems. I had a FSM for the truck and for the 74 Challenger. The computer for engine went against the inner fender of the car. We used the alt from the truck and it works good with the computer controling it. I would say 40% of the wire was not used. In the wiring harness you have to pull out the lights, air bag sensors, DRL. and we doubled up some of the engine sensors, as the computer must see oil presure ect and we wanted to have the old sensors still working the gauges on his original dash. All splices we did were all souldered and heat shrink. Bolting the engine was by far the easiest part. I spent 3 weeks on and off, and 2 full sat. just doing wiring and splicing. I didn't do any of the eng and trans fitting, but did watch it progress.

wires.JPG
 
Digging up the past and hoping not to get dirty here...

I've been looking at bolt on TBI-like systems from Retrotek and F.A.S.T. that allow you to BYO intake but provide everything else, the MPP kit is actually more inclusive

What is the consensus on the P5153590 Mopar EFI kit, anyone here running one?

It it a street/strip healthy addition or purely a grocery-getter street sipper?

Found this kit complete with intake, 1000 cfm 4-bbl TB, fuel pump, rails, filter, regulator, distributor, sensors, injectors, harness, spark plug wires, and "[SIZE=-1]JTEC engine controller with unique calibration"[/SIZE] on mopartsracing.com for $2345

Limitations? I guess it may not be accessible for operator tuning...

BTW - nice selection of hydrollic roller cams for 5.2/5.9L magnum engines too
 
octanejunkie said:
Digging up the past and hoping not to get dirty here...

I've been looking at bolt on TBI-like systems from Retrotek and F.A.S.T. that allow you to BYO intake but provide everything else, the MPP kit is actually more inclusive

What is the consensus on the P5153590 Mopar EFI kit, anyone here running one?

It it a street/strip healthy addition or purely a grocery-getter street sipper?

Found this kit complete with intake, 1000 cfm 4-bbl TB, fuel pump, rails, filter, regulator, distributor, sensors, injectors, harness, spark plug wires, and "[SIZE=-1]JTEC engine controller with unique calibration"[/SIZE] on mopartsracing.com for $2345

Limitations? I guess it may not be accessible for operator tuning...

BTW - nice selection of hydrollic roller cams for 5.2/5.9L magnum engines too
Click to expand...

Have you seen this one yet?
http://www.professional-products.com/new.html

Looks to be much like the FAST.

I have caught crap by mentioning the FAST and this one, but no one wants to tell me why it's bad. I cant see having control over your own timing and fuel bad for the price. But maybe someone can enlighten me?

I am currently switching from MPI to carb because of all my frustrations with the MPI.
 
POS Dakota said:
Have you seen this one yet?
http://www.professional-products.com/new.html

Looks to be much like the FAST.

I have caught crap by mentioning the FAST and this one, but no one wants to tell me why it's bad. I cant see having control over your own timing and fuel bad for the price. But maybe someone can enlighten me?

I am currently switching from MPI to carb because of all my frustrations with the MPI.
Click to expand...

The Powerjection3 and soon the PJ+ Plus is the Retrotek product I am most leaning towards; completely tunable, self learning and all-inclusive - they even offer a Fuel On Demand module that negates the need for a return line by modulating fuel pump power, but I'd rather just run the return line as long as I can keep the fuel from aerating too much on the way back into the tank

I think much of the flack the aftermarket EFI systems get is due to improper design, installation or circumstances (users expecting too much) - and at $2500 a pop it is not an easy upsell from a $500 carb that will get the car down the road

I am more interested in EFI to future-proof my vehicles in the face of declining octane ratings, in CA and nationwide. For instance, out here we don't have 93 octane readily available, 91 is tops in most all stations and once the EPA and the NTSB force lower octane ratings on the car companies to produce lower to zero emissions fuels, 85 will be the norm - I don't know of too many hot rods that will run on 85 octane without an adaptive fuel curve

The MPP kit looks very price competitive, but if it is a closed-loop system not allowing operator level programming I am not interested. I have experience programming Accel DFI systems and am not afeared of some PC based tuning, but honestly most guys don't get into it and hence the bad rap - as we all know, things may work out of the box, but usually not optimally
 
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