Gauging interest in making new alternator voltage regulators

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MadScientistMat

MadScientistMat

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I've heard a lot of complaints about the quality of many Mopar electronics going downhill or just becoming no longer available, and it has me contemplating making new ones myself. These would be made in the USA as much as possible (a lot of the individual components have to be bought wherever they're made, but I can keep the PCB and assembly here easily enough), clean slate designs with modern components. I'm thinking a voltage regulator would be a good starting point; they are fairly straightforward compared to other items and I've had several requests. These would be a bit more expensive than a parts store part (possibly around $80 for a voltage regulator, give or take), but the goal would be to deliver a more robust design with higher build quality. If I did this, what would people be interested in?

Single or dual field regulators?

One interesting suggestion that cropped up on another forum was a switch to allow setting the regulator for gel cell, AGM, or regular batteries.

Connections can be spade terminals (affordable and they just plain work), I can find a way to copy the Mopar plugs, or use Amphenol AT or Deutsch DT plugs at a higher price.

Housings - cheapest option would be a brand new plastic box or mold the whole assembly from potting compound, but I could do sandblasted and cleaned OE housings if that's what people prefer.

Or is there something else that is a lot more urgently needed?
 
Regulators are a issue but ignition boxes seem worse. The new ones nowdays are junk!
 
my only input would be to make the regulators adjustable . i have been using the transpo adjustable regulators and had great luck and adjustability is a great option .
 
Thank you for the feedback, everyone! At this point, I'm thinking I might make this one a solid state unit whose main selling point is being adjustable for lots of different battery types, and then work on an ignition module replacement, something that would keep CARB off your back but also stand up to abuse that would smoke a stock unit. But keep the suggestions coming!
 
Curious as to your educational credentials in the electrical field to qualify you for this type project? Also, considerable manufacturing experience would be required as well. Hand building units on a onesy twosy basis doesn't lend a lot of credibility to your effort.

And like others have said, OEM appearance is a must for me. No plastic boxes need apply.
 
69DodgeMan said:
Curious as to your educational credentials in the electrical field to qualify you for this type project? Also, considerable manufacturing experience would be required as well. Hand building units on a onesy twosy basis doesn't lend a lot of credibility to your effort.

And like others have said, OEM appearance is a must for me. No plastic boxes need apply.
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Wouldn't you prefer something one or two basis than some Mass produced junk? I prefer knowing my stuff was custom built personally but that's just me...
 
Ironracer said:
Wouldn't you prefer something one or two basis than some Mass produced junk? I prefer knowing my stuff was custom built personally but that's just me...
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I was just curious of his qualifications to do this job, that's all (some call it doing "due diligence"). And usually something custom made by hand on a one or two at a time basis tends to lack a bit on the quality control side of things.

Anyone can throw together some questionable parts and call it a custom made job. It may or may not work upon receipt and for how long it works is also an issue.

Bottom line, a lot more information needs to be provided before I buy into something like this. But you are welcome to go right ahead and be the first customer and then you can report back on the product after your experience with it.
 
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Comments:
How would it work with a plastic box?

Every wire modification made is a potential source of failure. With no way to control the quality of the wire connectors needed to use this customized unit, it opens you up to failure complaints, whether fairly placed or not.

Problems with the regulators at least in part are due to the high field current many of the new replacement alternators draw. A regulator that could handle the load would be a partial answer and probably welcome. That still wouldn't resolve issues caused by the load on the rest of the circuit. Arguabley the best answer for most owners is to use an alternator with field current that is in spec.
 
69DodgeMan said:
Curious as to your educational credentials in the electrical field to qualify you for this type project? Also, considerable manufacturing experience would be required as well. Hand building units on a onesy twosy basis doesn't lend a lot of credibility to your effort.

And like others have said, OEM appearance is a must for me. No plastic boxes need apply.
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That's a reasonable question, and it deserves a fair answer for what I would, and would not, be able to do.

For those who don't know me, my name is Matt Cramer. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and worked at DIYAutoTune for close to 15 years, where I did a lot of electrical work. Some of my experience there includes designing the DIYPNP and the original run of MSPNP Gen 2 units, working as project manager for the first generation MS3Pro, and designing drop on engine and transmission wiring harnesses.

The plan here would initially be to get a line of professionally made PCBs (no toner transfer and ferric chloride) run with through hole parts that I can assemble by hand, then if that establishes the demand is there, have a contract manufacturer make a larger run with surface mount parts.

One limitation that I haven't found a good way to get around is making stamped metal parts in short runs, which is limiting me to either finding an off the shelf enclosure (generally plastic or cast aluminum) that can be easily customized, or trying to recondition used ones (which would be a lot more involved). So I'm checking to see how much of a deal breaker this could be, and if it's a problem, I'd rather find out before I've ordered a bunch of parts. :)

Case grounds versus wire grounds have a few trade offs. A wire is another failure point, true. But I've seen reports of internal grounds to the case fail. And a correctly executed case ground still has to deal with voltage drops and electrical noise in a chassis ground - you'd think that much sheet metal would give a clean signal, but noise, spot welds, and a number of other factors interfere.
 
I personally have had two of the new electronic voltage regulators in vintage housings (left one) fail and peg the alternator. I managed to pick a NOS unit at Carlisle (right one) which fixed the issue, but it won't last forever. I would be interested in a new unit if it could be installed in a vintage housing.

IMG_20220716_153045496_HDR.jpg
 
qkcuda said:
I personally have had two of the new electronic voltage regulators in vintage housings (left one) fail and peg the alternator. I managed to pick a NOS unit at Carlisle (right one) which fixed the issue, but it won't last forever. I would be interested in a new unit if it could be installed in a vintage housing.

View attachment 1716053678
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I bought one of the Mopar vintage looking ones (in the black electronic style box) after buying a parts store one ( it wasn't worth a crap, 20 bucks out) and having the one on the car go to crap....
 
MadScientistMat said:
That's a reasonable question, and it deserves a fair answer for what I would, and would not, be able to do.

For those who don't know me, my name is Matt Cramer. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and worked at DIYAutoTune for close to 15 years, where I did a lot of electrical work. Some of my experience there includes designing the DIYPNP and the original run of MSPNP Gen 2 units, working as project manager for the first generation MS3Pro, and designing drop on engine and transmission wiring harnesses.

The plan here would initially be to get a line of professionally made PCBs (no toner transfer and ferric chloride) run with through hole parts that I can assemble by hand, then if that establishes the demand is there, have a contract manufacturer make a larger run with surface mount parts.

One limitation that I haven't found a good way to get around is making stamped metal parts in short runs, which is limiting me to either finding an off the shelf enclosure (generally plastic or cast aluminum) that can be easily customized, or trying to recondition used ones (which would be a lot more involved). So I'm checking to see how much of a deal breaker this could be, and if it's a problem, I'd rather find out before I've ordered a bunch of parts. :)

Case grounds versus wire grounds have a few trade offs. A wire is another failure point, true. But I've seen reports of internal grounds to the case fail. And a correctly executed case ground still has to deal with voltage drops and electrical noise in a chassis ground - you'd think that much sheet metal would give a clean signal, but noise, spot welds, and a number of other factors interfere.
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Thank you Mr. Cramer for the additional information concerning your plans. :thumbsup:
 
MadScientistMat said:
I've heard a lot of complaints about the quality of many Mopar electronics going downhill or just becoming no longer available, and it has me contemplating making new ones myself. These would be made in the USA as much as possible (a lot of the individual components have to be bought wherever they're made, but I can keep the PCB and assembly here easily enough), clean slate designs with modern components. I'm thinking a voltage regulator would be a good starting point; they are fairly straightforward compared to other items and I've had several requests. These would be a bit more expensive than a parts store part (possibly around $80 for a voltage regulator, give or take), but the goal would be to deliver a more robust design with higher build quality. If I did this, what would people be interested in?

Single or dual field regulators?

One interesting suggestion that cropped up on another forum was a switch to allow setting the regulator for gel cell, AGM, or regular batteries.

Connections can be spade terminals (affordable and they just plain work), I can find a way to copy the Mopar plugs, or use Amphenol AT or Deutsch DT plugs at a higher price.

Housings - cheapest option would be a brand new plastic box or mold the whole assembly from potting compound, but I could do sandblasted and cleaned OE housings if that's what people prefer.

Or is there something else that is a lot more urgently needed?
Click to expand...

I would be a buyer as the need arises. Much rather spend 80 bucks for a quality part rather than lighting 25 bucks on fire- er I mean buying a chinesium part.
 
I found I hadn't thrown away my dead OE points regulator. Looks like making a backing plate that fits this and contains a solid state regulator circuit board would not be too hard - but copying the case itself out of steel would be tricky. What would peoples' thoughts be on a vacuformed plastic cover that mimiced the original steel? I know a guy who does a lot of movie props who could probably do some pretty convincing covers, while the grounding and heat sinking would be taken care of in the backing plate.
 
Provided the cover appeared similar and could be painted to match, I would still buy.
 
Can you make something that slips into a stock case? Otherwise could we send ours as a core for a retrofit? I've got the one I took out I could send down for a test fit.
 
qkcuda said:
Can you make something that slips into a stock case? Otherwise could we send ours as a core for a retrofit? I've got the one I took out I could send down for a test fit.
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Yes, it looks like my best option for a restoration type regulator would be to have a base that fits the shell for an OE points type regulator, then have an option of a plastic cover (molded from an original metal one) if you don't have the shell.
 
MadScientistMat said:
That's a reasonable question, and it deserves a fair answer for what I would, and would not, be able to do.

For those who don't know me, my name is Matt Cramer. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and worked at DIYAutoTune for close to 15 years, where I did a lot of electrical work. Some of my experience there includes designing the DIYPNP and the original run of MSPNP Gen 2 units, working as project manager for the first generation MS3Pro, and designing drop on engine and transmission wiring harnesses.

The plan here would initially be to get a line of professionally made PCBs (no toner transfer and ferric chloride) run with through hole parts that I can assemble by hand, then if that establishes the demand is there, have a contract manufacturer make a larger run with surface mount parts.

One limitation that I haven't found a good way to get around is making stamped metal parts in short runs, which is limiting me to either finding an off the shelf enclosure (generally plastic or cast aluminum) that can be easily customized, or trying to recondition used ones (which would be a lot more involved). So I'm checking to see how much of a deal breaker this could be, and if it's a problem, I'd rather find out before I've ordered a bunch of parts. :)

Case grounds versus wire grounds have a few trade offs. A wire is another failure point, true. But I've seen reports of internal grounds to the case fail. And a correctly executed case ground still has to deal with voltage drops and electrical noise in a chassis ground - you'd think that much sheet metal would give a clean signal, but noise, spot welds, and a number of other factors interfere.
Click to expand...

I have had the same thoughts Matt. I am a retired electrical design engineer for hi-rel military designs. Mostly power systems, switching converters, motor drives, linear control loops and high voltage. If you want some design help or just someone to bounce schematics, ideas off PM me. I would be happy to help. Those designs are not difficult but as you mentioned to make them robust it take more parts, thought and effort.

Right now I have a PIC microcontroller between my Pertronix 3 (double pulse firing) and my FITech RPM signal to give the EFI a clean single RPM pulse and a switching converter on the fuel pump to have it run as slow as it can for lower noise and reduced wear.

Jim
 
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That's a clever idea with that PIC controller. I've always thought it was a big mistake for Pertronix not to have given the Ignitor 3 a clean tach output signal. I'll keep that offer in mind.
 
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