Green Wheel bearing help

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BobbyY said:
Bill G and others, Getting the Drum off is my current issue to see what I have. What should be the slot to allow for loosing the adjuster has a steel plug/plate on the inside.
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I have never heard of a steel plate on the inside covering the adjusting slots. I guess once you get the drum off, you'll know what that is. They usually have rubber plugs that push in from the outside, and often those are missing. Are the 2 slots you see at the bottom of the backing plate? As far as loosening the adjuster, you use one screwdriver to push the spring lock away from the teeth and use the other screwdriver (or brake lever) to push the toothed wheel up (inner side). That direction should be true for left and right since both adjusters flick the wheel up on the outer side, so you want to turn it the opposite direction to loosen. If the slots can't be opened, perhaps you can pull the drum out enough to slip levers between the shoes and backing plate to get at the adjuster. It is on the bottom, in the middle. You can find photos here if you search.
 
Well I finally did the unthinkable. I called a friend to come help, (kind of like asking for directions). He came over sit down in front of the passenger wheel grabbed the brake drum, whispered something to the car, wiggleed it a couple of times and it slid right off. Well not to be out-done, I went to the driver side and did the same thing he did, I gently wiggled it around, nothing, pulled harder, nothing, rotated the drum while wiggling it, nothing, a few words that must have not been as nice as whe he used, still nothing. When I asked him to hand me the BFH he just said to move out of the way. A little whisper, a wiggle and the drum was in his hand. So from now on if I have to remove the drum, I'm just calling him.

So what was the metal plate over the adjusting slot, it was a metal plug spot welded at the bottom. When I tried to use a screwdriver and a hammer to remove the plug, I had the screwdriver at the bottom and nothing was happening. After cleaning it up where you could see the weld all you had to do was put the screwdriver at the top of the slot and hit it with the hammer and it snapped off. This is the first back-plate I have ever seen that did not have either a rubber plug or nothing. At least now I can get to the adjuster.

Also I confirmed I have a green bearing, which is where this thread started. Thanks for all of the tips and help.

Bobby
 
Snap-ring Green bearings maintain a brake gap 0.020" wider than stock. In other words, they pull the axles 0.020" outward per side (away from the thrust block).

If your axles squeaked and rubbed, you are running first generation Green bearings with the crimped-on bearing retainer or aftermarket axles, aftermarket brakes or a modified housing.
 
Frankenduster said:
What nobody has yet mentioned is that GREEN is a company name like Kleenex orB.F Goodrich. The "Green bearings" are not roller bearings like a soda can, but BALL bearings. They are absolutely nowhere near as durable as the factory style tapered bearings manufactured by the TIMKEN corporation. They will never last 100,000 miles like the Timkens. They will not last if you enjoy road racing or any type of cornering. They are okay for drag race cars that spent 99% of the time in a straight line.
The only advantage these inferior bearings have over the factory stuff is that they need no adjustment. The adjustment takes a few minutes. You are not gaining anything by switching. I didn't know about the weakness of the ball bearing design until 2 years ago when my "Green" bearings started failing after 7000 miles. I would have installed the Timkens but my axle shafts have been cut too short to utilize the factory setup. I went with Mopar performance bearings that are essentially the same as the "Green" versions. When these fail, I'll order new axle shafts and go with the Timkens again. I like to cut corners rather than drive in a straight line.
There are rear disc brake kits that work with the Timken bearings. Contact Doctor Diff. He sells brake kits at reasonable prices. I have his 10.7" kit on the Charger. It uses Toyota rotors, Mustang calipers and pads and a custom bracket to mount it all.
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The trouble with going back to the factory rear tapered roller bearings, I have found, is finding a shop that can do it. I don't have the correct tools or for that matter the time to do it. If anyone knows of a shop that is confident in doing this in Nassau County Long Island, let me know. It's not a priority right now, but it would be nice to know about.
 
dartley said:
The trouble with going back to the factory rear tapered roller bearings, I have found, is finding a shop that can do it. I don't have the correct tools or for that matter the time to do it. If anyone knows of a shop that is confident in doing this in Nassau County Long Island, let me know. It's not a priority right now, but it would be nice to know about.
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What do you need done?
Any machine shop can press bearings on the axle.
I use Joe Gettler Inc in Mineola , 741-6579
 
Frankenduster said:
What nobody has yet mentioned is that GREEN is a company name like Kleenex orB.F Goodrich. The "Green bearings" are not roller bearings like a soda can, but BALL bearings. They are absolutely nowhere near as durable as the factory style tapered bearings manufactured by the TIMKEN corporation. They will never last 100,000 miles like the Timkens. They will not last if you enjoy road racing or any type of cornering. They are okay for drag race cars that spent 99% of the time in a straight line.
The only advantage these inferior bearings have over the factory stuff is that they need no adjustment. The adjustment takes a few minutes. You are not gaining anything by switching. I didn't know about the weakness of the ball bearing design until 2 years ago when my "Green" bearings started failing after 7000 miles. I would have installed the Timkens but my axle shafts have been cut too short to utilize the factory setup. I went with Mopar performance bearings that are essentially the same as the "Green" versions. When these fail, I'll order new axle shafts and go with the Timkens again. I like to cut corners rather than drive in a straight line.
There are rear disc brake kits that work with the Timken bearings. Contact Doctor Diff. He sells brake kits at reasonable prices. I have his 10.7" kit on the Charger. It uses Toyota rotors, Mustang calipers and pads and a custom bracket to mount it all.
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MiradaMegaCab said:
What do you need done?
Any machine shop can press bearings on the axle.
I use Joe Gettler Inc in Mineola , 741-6579
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True, that's not really the part shops are "scared" of. When I try to explain that there's a measurement for end play involved, and that they need the tool for it, they're like ... hmmm, okay, if you have the manual I might be able to help you out ... not too confidence inspiring. What I want to hear is: "Oh yeah, I've done those before - no problem!".
 
I literally just did a rear wildwood disc kit a few weeks ago. I bought the new green bearings with snap ring and pressed them on. You can go with the standard retainer plate or a split U plate which I used its easier to work with. Make sure your axle is drilled big enough on the face to get your socket and extension through to tighten up the bolts on the E brake hub in back if you are going with the e brake kit. I had moser axles that weren't drilled at all so I had to find a place to drill the hardened face. Most places didn't even want to touch it. I'll post pics of mine soon if you still need a reference.
 
dartley said:
True, that's not really the part shops are "scared" of. When I try to explain that there's a measurement for end play involved, and that they need the tool for it, they're like ... hmmm, okay, if you have the manual I might be able to help you out ... not too confidence inspiring. What I want to hear is: "Oh yeah, I've done those before - no problem!".
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Have you tried a transmission shop?
A dial indicator with a magnetic base is what you need.
 
I 'm a little confused, Shouldn't the new calipers on the aftermarket kits be floating to allow for brake wear instead of fixed?
How do you set the preload with the "green " bearings?

Thanks, now I have to see what I have for bearings as my diff is louder than it should be at highway speeds.
 
They are for going straight use them on hard turns and they will fail. They do not take side load as the tapered bearings do.. I use them but a high use driver street car should not.

Full time 4x4's and FWD's used them on the front and they were junk. If they wouldn't have the rotor to hold the wheel on many would have lost wheels and axles. Towed and Repaired many in my day.. Not a good choice for the street with drum brakes unless you have extra quarter panels.
 
Didn't want to open a new topic on this as there are already several on the subject of Green bearing safety. After doing some research on this I've found that, while most (all???) new cars use rear ball bearings, they usually (always???) use a double row of them ... that is, two separate rows of ball bearings.

Some older vehicles - as I think someone already mentioned - used real sealed ball bearings. But I could not locate information as to weather they were single or double row though - but by their width I am imagining they were single row.

I also could not get any information on whether the 'green' bearings are single row, but for the same reason I would think so.

So comparing these with what newer cars are running I think is an unfair comparison.
 
I don't even know why this keeps getting brought up. Green type bearings have been used on the FRONT of cars and trucks for years. Making turns AND with drive shafts stickin through um DRIVIN the things to. They last a long time. They are heavy duty pieces. How the RUMOR got started that they cannot take turns, I'll never know. It's just not true.
 
The sealed ball bearings used on all modern cars are not single row ball bearings. They are double row ball bearings (angular contact) with deep groove races and designed to take side loads. One row of balls takes a thrust load in one direction, and the other in the other, so when you are placing a side load on the bearing in either direction there is a thrust bearing taking the load.

The commonly used ball bearings used to replace tapered roller (thrust) bearings in mopar 8 3/4's are NOT thrust bearings. They are single row shallow race radial contact bearings, and with extended side loads will fail.

See this link for schematics

http://www.engineersedge.com/bearing_types_pic.htm

Although "green" bearings resemble other sealed wheel bearings, they are internally a very different animal.
 
BobbyY said:
Well I thought I would go just pop off the drums and take a look. That has turned out to be much easier said than done. The drums, both sides are free enough to wiggle around and slide in and out 1/8 inch or so but neither will come off. I have hit around on the edge of the face with a mallet but that hasn't done anything. Then I decided to loosen up on the adjusters, but I found that there is a steel plug/plate covering the adjuster hole from the inside. I have tried using a rather large screwdriver and the mallet to see if it would pop out. This also did not work, I did not unleash a full swing with the BFH on it for fear of damaging something. I also dressed the edge of the axle where it comes through the drum just to ensure that there was not a rough edge holding it on. Ideas please.

Bobby
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just making sure. is your parking break on?

edit: I should read the whole form pre commenting
 
MILLIONS of Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles came stock with single row ball wheel bearings in the rear.
 
DoctorDiff said:
MILLIONS of Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles came stock with single row ball wheel bearings in the rear.
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Thanks. Getting kinda tired of bein the only one that seems to understand.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I don't even know why this keeps getting brought up. Green type bearings have been used on the FRONT of cars and trucks for years. Making turns AND with drive shafts stickin through um DRIVIN the things to. They last a long time. They are heavy duty pieces. How the RUMOR got started that they cannot take turns, I'll never know. It's just not true.
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rick from mopar action,started it
 
d55dave said:
The sealed ball bearings used on all modern cars are not single row ball bearings. They are double row ball bearings (angular contact) with deep groove races and designed to take side loads. One row of balls takes a thrust load in one direction, and the other in the other, so when you are placing a side load on the bearing in either direction there is a thrust bearing taking the load.

The commonly used ball bearings used to replace tapered roller (thrust) bearings in mopar 8 3/4's are NOT thrust bearings. They are single row shallow race radial contact bearings, and with extended side loads will fail.

See this link for schematics

http://www.engineersedge.com/bearing_types_pic.htm

Although "green" bearings resemble other sealed wheel bearings, they are internally a very different animal.
Click to expand...

This is what I found out from my own research, as I mentioned in my post from yesterday. What I still don't know though, is ... are the greenies the same on the inside as the ball bearings that were standard decades ago in some Ford and Mopar rears? And if so, how often did the old ones fail?
 
ran green bearing in my dart for well over a decade with no issues. rear will go into another abody sooner or later and those same green bearings will be on the axles..:)
 
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