Griffin radiator and twin fans still running at 190-200?

[yellow rose]

Fans!22
Water pump 5
Fuel pump 1
ignition 4 or .7 per 1k
O2 sensor 1?
Tac it's light and the little water- oil-voltage gages 2?

And then you need to know how many amps the alternator puts out at idle and cruise. It's nowhere near max rating.

My cousin has a fire chicken that is essentially stock. Had a 55 amp alternator on it. The alternator light would flicker at idle and and the volt meter never went over 12 volts.

I tell him so many times my front teeth are worn down that his alternator was JUNK. He, being the genius sandwich maker he is, went on the old interweb and every single hero on the web told him it was grounds, voltage regulator blah blah blah.

Finally, I got sick of telling him the same **** over and over and over, I jumped on summit, bought his dumb *** a single wire 100 amp alternator that put out more amps at idle than his junker did at max RPM and had it drop shipped to him.

Bolted it on an there it is. Fixed. The spark plugs even cleaned up at idle a bit.

65 amps is a puny alternator. You almost can't get enough amps at low RPM with today's stuff.

 

[northeastmopar]

So, maybe I should change the sending unit to the on at 200 and off at 185. They sell that one? I have no idea why they Griffing radiator gave me the 185-165 sender with the combo kit I bought? Odd?

OK. So today I rechecked all my wiring. All correct. I talked to Spal again. What they told me is that the sender that was included in the fan relay package was not their sender?? I called Griffin and they have now confirmed that even though the Spal relay box says it comes with a Spal 3/8" stainless steel sender, what they sent me was a 1/4" brass sender. When I asked why, Griffin told me that the Spal stainless steel 3/8" was basically the same as the brass one they sent me and if they were to buy and include the Spal sender, they would have had to up the price of my already $1200.00 combo unit. Sounds like they were looking to maximize their profit margins. I asked Griffin if they could sell me the Spal sender and they said they do not sell them? Strange. Talked to Spal again and he told me to start the car and place a jumper wire from the sender to a ground. Fans started right up. Car cooled all the way down to like 170 idling. SO. If Griffin sent the correct 3/8" stainless sender, I would not have had to use the 3/8 x 1/4" bushing which I loaded with Teflon to keep it from leaking. Then I had the 1/4" unit to screw into the bushing? Better to use stainless steel with aluminum #1, and to go straight in 3/8" without using stupid bushings. SO, my whole issue was caused by Griffin sending me probably a cheap sender and Teflon preventing a good ground. So now I am waiting on a good 3/8" sending unit and we will see where that goes. On another Griffin note, my bottom hose is leaking terrible. I think the bottom connection is about two inches more to the center of the car. That makes that bend from motor to radiator tighter and the new rubber hose doesn't seem to want to conform to that bend very well. I think they call it a 1.75" hose and I was looking at buying a 135 degree silicone hose with each leg being 10" long so it will take that tighter bend and I can cut the arms where I need to. Has anyone here had these issues with the bottom hose and used silicone? Is it more forgiving than the rubber? And what are the best clamps to use for the silicone? I will keep this post going as I change the parts and get her where she needs to be.

 

[northeastmopar]

OK. So today I rechecked all my wiring. All correct. I talked to Spal again. What they told me is that the sender that was included in the fan relay package was not their sender?? I called Griffin and they have now confirmed that even though the Spal relay box says it comes with a Spal 3/8" stainless steel sender, what they sent me was a 1/4" brass sender. When I asked why, Griffin told me that the Spal stainless steel 3/8" was basically the same as the brass one they sent me and if they were to buy and include the Spal sender, they would have had to up the price of my already $1200.00 combo unit. Sounds like they were looking to maximize their profit margins. I asked Griffin if they could sell me the Spal sender and they said they do not sell them? Strange. Talked to Spal again and he told me to start the car and place a jumper wire from the sender to a ground. Fans started right up. Car cooled all the way down to like 170 idling. SO. If Griffin sent the correct 3/8" stainless sender, I would not have had to use the 3/8 x 1/4" bushing which I loaded with Teflon to keep it from leaking. Then I had the 1/4" unit to screw into the bushing? Better to use stainless steel with aluminum #1, and to go straight in 3/8" without using stupid bushings. SO, my whole issue was caused by Griffin sending me probably a cheap sender and Teflon preventing a good ground. So now I am waiting on a good 3/8" sending unit and we will see where that goes. On another Griffin note, my bottom hose is leaking terrible. I think the bottom connection is about two inches more to the center of the car. That makes that bend from motor to radiator tighter and the new rubber hose doesn't seem to want to conform to that bend very well. I think they call it a 1.75" hose and I was looking at buying a 135 degree silicone hose with each leg being 10" long so it will take that tighter bend and I can cut the arms where I need to. Has anyone here had these issues with the bottom hose and used silicone? Is it more forgiving than the rubber? And what are the best clamps to use for the silicone? I will keep this post going as I change the parts and get her where she needs to be.

OK folks. All fixed. Bought the better stainless steel spal sending unit which is 3/8" thread. Got rid of the stupid reducing bushing and went straight in the manifold with the 3/8" Spent time trimming and fitting that bottom radiator hose. Filled the griffin radiator with the evans coolant solution and fired her up. Car go up to 185 degrees and both fans kicked on. Temp gauge pretty quickly dropped to the 165 and the fans shut down. Took her out for a spin and she runs at a cool 180 now.

 

[72bluNblu]

OK folks. All fixed. Bought the better stainless steel spal sending unit which is 3/8" thread. Got rid of the stupid reducing bushing and went straight in the manifold with the 3/8" Spent time trimming and fitting that bottom radiator hose. Filled the griffin radiator with the evans coolant solution and fired her up. Car go up to 185 degrees and both fans kicked on. Temp gauge pretty quickly dropped to the 165 and the fans shut down. Took her out for a spin and she runs at a cool 180 now.

Glad that everything seems to be working. I still don't like that temperature range though. Not sure about your engine, but my engine would be VERY unhappy at 165*F. And honestly, I'm surprised it actually dropped to that temperature. If the thermostat is closing like it should, I would think that you would end up holding at the thermostat closing temperature (which was 180 right?). The fans might cool the water in the radiator still, but, if the thermostat is closed that water isn't circulating, and the fans aren't going to have a tremendous effect on the water circulating through the engine. Some, but not that much.

If your engine is happy with those temps I guess that's fine. I know mine wouldn't be, and that's why I set my fans to keep it between 190 and 200.

 

[northeastmopar]

Glad that everything seems to be working. I still don't like that temperature range though. Not sure about your engine, but my engine would be VERY unhappy at 165*F. And honestly, I'm surprised it actually dropped to that temperature. If the thermostat is closing like it should, I would think that you would end up holding at the thermostat closing temperature (which was 180 right?). The fans might cool the water in the radiator still, but, if the thermostat is closed that water isn't circulating, and the fans aren't going to have a tremendous effect on the water circulating through the engine. Some, but not that much.

If your engine is happy with those temps I guess that's fine. I know mine wouldn't be, and that's why I set my fans to keep it between 190 and 200.

Well, took her out for a ride today which was a little longer. It was about 92 degrees here today. I ended up in traffic for 4 or 5 miles just stop and go. Temperature gauge climbed up to right about 210 degrees or maybe a tad higher which got me nervous. But then it seemed to just level off there and stayed there. I cleared the traffic and drove the highway another 5=6 miles at 60mph and I was looking to see the temp drop? I did not drop but remained the same all the way to the end of cruise. When I shut the car and keyed the ignition switch, I was able to hear both fans running fine. So I shut here down. Watched a little league game and started her for the return trip home. The sun had now kind of set and the temperature seemed to drop about 10 degrees or so. No traffic on highway all the way back. But the temp gauge stayed at about 200 all the way home. So it did drop about 10 degrees on the way back but isn't 200 a little high? 210? Or am I over thinking things? The other issue was that the lower hose I bought I had to trim and trim to get both ends to connect and right where it bends at the water pump neck, I end up with a kink of sorts in the hose. Rather than the 2" outside diameter, It was kinked so in that area the hose was kind of flattened to about 50%. I kind of thought that it would just be creating an oval rather than a round tube, but now I am wondering if I restricted the flow?? Somebody told me to go to West Marine and buy some exhaust hose for a boat. He said it was very bendable and that's what he used on his Mustang? So I am again opening this discussion up for comments on this. Griffin radiator told me that the choice they gave me should run the car very cool. What the hell does that even mean??

 

[Inertia]

I'm very sorry to say I don't think we've heard the last of this thread, summer isn't even here. Every Spring more stories, used to be interesting, even humorous, now it's just sad. Nobody searches or believes history anymore. Good luck.

 

[famous bob]

I'm very sorry to say I don't think we've heard the last of this thread, summer isn't even here. Every Spring more stories, used to be interesting, even humorous, now it's just sad. Nobody searches or believes history anymore. Good luck.

I have been following this thread. I haven`t really had a problem, but I just installed 10,000 rpm flexfan, w/ 2 1/4" pitch on the blades. I had to almost make a spacer to get the fan situated in my highly reworked alum shroud. I can stand by the door w/ the fiberglass hood off, and feel the air rushing around me on the drivers side. The engine got up to 192 and didn`t go any higher, setting in the garage , the handheld said 106 ambient air temp.. Think I`m going to like this set up. I do have a 15" pusher mounted about 2" off the rad. on the pass side(only place I could put it w/o mounting it to the rad.) I think that would have caused a restriction. Anyway the pusher is set to come on at 200* and go off at 190. 185 degree thermostat.
Would like to lose some more front end weight , not going to hack it up. Weighs 3273 before this latest mod.

 

[memike]

Remember some gages will lie to us, seen it happen a few times, use a laser temp gage to test the temps you all are getting before we jump to conclusions.
Everyone have a great memorial weekend

 

[northeastmopar]

I'm very sorry to say I don't think we've heard the last of this thread, summer isn't even here. Every Spring more stories, used to be interesting, even humorous, now it's just sad. Nobody searches or believes history anymore. Good luck.

Funny. I did do searches before reaching out here. Did not find anything relative to my car. Found lots of other topics that did not relate.

 

[Inertia]

Funny. I did do searches before reaching out here. Did not find anything relative to my car. Found lots of other topics that did not relate.

 

[j par]

Funny. I did do searches before reaching out here. Did not find anything relative to my car. Found lots of other topics that did not relate.

I scrolled to the top of this page to check what you just said and typed in the words over heating and it came up with six pages Plus.
I say American made or not $1,200 is a ridiculously insane crazy price for a radiator and fan, especially one that doesn't work. And you have to buy parts for it to make it work?! At that kind of price the damn thing should freeze the Damned antifreeze!

 

[Inertia]

Sorry, I get frustrated. If you search "overheat" in cooling etc., Here a reader's digest of what you'll find, in my opinion. Assuming the engine tune/timing is as it should be. Use a heat gun to assure the rad is losing at least 40-50* of temp, 30* is marginal. ( I didn't see you response to this question). 75% of the folks who try an electrical fan, no matter size/speed, despite some very, very elaborate, imaginative, with/without flaps, the shroud seems to cause more probs by the disturbing the flow. A lotta expensive fan and shrouds get tossed here, ( can I get an amen?). I didn't see anyone recommend using the mechanical fan, use what ever fan you have for a test, the 5 - 7 blade clutch preferred, THIS usually improves/cures the issue. Many say don't have room, there is a short clutch avail. As to successful elec fan - 72blu has given you great, cost effective advice, as have many others. We're I you, I'd loose the electric fans and shroud right away ( I know $1200, you're gonna see a lotta used elec fans for sale soon) and see if a manual fan without shroud improves the issue, measuring the heat readings at the rad inlet/outlet at the fitting, not the hose. If it still won't cool at speed, you have a rad issue, period. All this happens every year, and watch, it'll happen next week, and not a sole will search/read this thread . lol. The dead give away is not losing heat at speed as Blu mentioned. Not enuff rad, or not enuff cool air directed thru the rad, or turbulence is blocking air. jmobservation.
I sincerely hope this helps.

Cheers
Edit . Shoot the temp of the rad hoses on your daily driver . .

 

[j par]

Sorry, I get frustrated. If you search "overheat" in cooling etc., Here a reader's digest of what you'll find, in my opinion. Assuming the engine tune/timing is as it should be. Use a heat gun to assure the rad is losing at least 40-50* of temp, 30* is marginal. ( I didn't see you response to this question). 75% of the folks who try an electrical fan, no matter size/speed, despite some very, very elaborate, imaginative, with/without flaps, the shroud seems to cause more probs by the disturbing the flow. A lotta expensive fan and shrouds get tossed here, ( can I get an amen?). I didn't see anyone recommend using the mechanical fan, use what ever fan you have for a test, the 5 - 7 blade clutch preferred, THIS usually improves/cures the issue. Many say don't have room, there is a short clutch avail. As to successful elec fan - 72blu has given you great, cost effective advice, as have many others. We're I you, I'd loose the electric fans and shroud right away ( I know $1200, you're gonna see a lotta used elec fans for sale soon) and see if a manual fan without shroud improves the issue, measuring the heat readings at the rad inlet/outlet at the fitting, not the hose. If it still won't cool at speed, you have a rad issue, period. All this happens every year, and watch, it'll happen next week, and not a sole will search/read this thread . lol. The dead give away is not losing heat at speed as Blu mentioned. Not enuff rad, or not enuff cool air directed thru the rad, or turbulence is blocking air. jmobservation.
I sincerely hope this helps.

Cheers

Thank you, I'm going to try cutting the flaps. More flow and less turbulence. Like said it's not cooling enough at Speed. Personally I plan on doing a cam swap probably at least by this winter and taking the electric water pump off and going ahead and putting a regular fan on in my old fan shroud. The cam swap will lower the RPM range of the motor anyways so it should be a win-win. Personally I'm just frustrated with the amount of money the original poster spent and getting this much trouble.

 

[Inertia]

Thank you, I'm going to try cutting the flaps. More flow and less turbulence. Like said it's not cooling enough at Speed. Personally I plan on doing a cam swap probably at least by this winter and taking the electric water pump off and going ahead and putting a regular fan on in my old fan shroud. The cam swap will lower the RPM range of the motor anyways so it should be a win-win. Personally I'm just frustrated with the amount of money the original poster spent and getting this much trouble.[/QUOTE...

jpar, may I suggest you may not need can swap if you do the rest first. imho.

..

Yep, agree, it's sad. Good luck .. cheers

 

[northeastmopar]

Thank you, I'm going to try cutting the flaps. More flow and less turbulence. Like said it's not cooling enough at Speed. Personally I plan on doing a cam swap probably at least by this winter and taking the electric water pump off and going ahead and putting a regular fan on in my old fan shroud. The cam swap will lower the RPM range of the motor anyways so it should be a win-win. Personally I'm just frustrated with the amount of money the original poster spent and getting this much trouble.

I have already tried a 369.00 aluminum exact same radiator and tried the mopar 7 blade stock fan for a a/c car. Bought a brand new clutch assembly with the shorter center. I couldn't even get the bolts to go in the fan thru the pulley Finally I got shorter bolts and fudged them in and all that work still got me temps approaching 220 and climbing. Couldn't get the brand new stock mopar shroud between the fan and radiator?? So, yes, I have been through all that. People telling me I had the motor mounts bolted to the wrong side of the block ears? Stupid. If that were the case, my tranny bolts would not have aligned? So while a appreciate all the help, yes, we are not all experts here? We learn from others, right. I am keeping this post moving forward for 2 reasons. One is to solve my issue and the second is to maybe help someone else who is struggling with same issue. One of my next steps was to hook up my vacuum gauge to the Holley 770 carb and see if my idle circuits are all at the highest vacuum. Then I am going to try and tweek the timing a bit to see if that may be causing the temp to rise. Car smells a bit rich. I also need to consider that kinked lower hose. That may be restricting the flow of water through the system causing the engine to run warmer than it should. None of those things have anything to do with the 1200.00 radiator? And as I stated earlier, I choose to do business with companies that keep guys like us employed. It's called supporting America.

 

[Inertia]

You prob read about the pump sucking the bottom hose shut at speed , if it doesn't have a spring inside.

Motor in tune is important,

Lots to read. good luck.

 

[Inertia]

You ran a 7 blade fan down the hiway with that rad (Griffin?) and it still ran hot?

What were the inlet/outlet temps. That will tell all?

 

[j par]

You ran a 7 blade fan down the hiway with that rad (Griffin?) and it still ran hot?

What were the inlet/outlet temps. That will tell all?

I'm starting to go with something here that's not having to do with the cooling system whatsoever but like a blocked passage in the block or something, I don't know? I'm sure we already had to have covered 110% verifying the thermostat is opening correctly if not an actual gutted one like I use.

 

[yellow rose]

You need to spin the water pump faster than the crank. Or no slower at the very least. You are either turning the pump too slow or the pump is probably junk. You can't get too much flow.

 

[famous bob]

You need to spin the water pump faster than the crank. Or no slower at the very least. You are either turning the pump too slow or the pump is probably junk. You can't get too much flow.

Aren`t stock pulleys one to one ?? That's what mine are.

 

[yellow rose]

Aren`t stock pulleys one to one ?? That's what mine are.

They should be. Some guys like to slow them down because they think they are cutting a fat hog in the *** and saving some power. What little they gained in HP from slowing the pump down they lost more by not being able to control the temp.

I bought aftermarket pulleys so I am 6% over on the water pump.

 

[Inertia]

I'm starting to go with something here that's not having to do with the cooling system whatsoever but like a blocked passage in the block or something, I don't know? I'm sure we already had to have covered 110% verifying the thermostat is opening correctly if not an actual gutted one like I use.

I think the first "tell" is after I mentioned if the motor is as it "should be", he says he's going to check timing etc , . Sigh .

 

[72bluNblu]

Well, took her out for a ride today which was a little longer. It was about 92 degrees here today. I ended up in traffic for 4 or 5 miles just stop and go. Temperature gauge climbed up to right about 210 degrees or maybe a tad higher which got me nervous. But then it seemed to just level off there and stayed there. I cleared the traffic and drove the highway another 5=6 miles at 60mph and I was looking to see the temp drop? I did not drop but remained the same all the way to the end of cruise. When I shut the car and keyed the ignition switch, I was able to hear both fans running fine. So I shut here down. Watched a little league game and started her for the return trip home. The sun had now kind of set and the temperature seemed to drop about 10 degrees or so. No traffic on highway all the way back. But the temp gauge stayed at about 200 all the way home. So it did drop about 10 degrees on the way back but isn't 200 a little high? 210? Or am I over thinking things? The other issue was that the lower hose I bought I had to trim and trim to get both ends to connect and right where it bends at the water pump neck, I end up with a kink of sorts in the hose. Rather than the 2" outside diameter, It was kinked so in that area the hose was kind of flattened to about 50%. I kind of thought that it would just be creating an oval rather than a round tube, but now I am wondering if I restricted the flow?? Somebody told me to go to West Marine and buy some exhaust hose for a boat. He said it was very bendable and that's what he used on his Mustang? So I am again opening this discussion up for comments on this. Griffin radiator told me that the choice they gave me should run the car very cool. What the hell does that even mean??

200*F by itself isn't super concerning. The tune and build of the engine go a long way to determining that. As I've said before, my 340 prefers to be between 190 and 200, it runs better there. So I hold 200* with my temperature all the time. 210* is a little hot, but if it doesn't stay there and it's only something that happens in 90+ degree weather in traffic that's not terrible either. 210*F would be the upper limit for what I would consider normal, if it hits that in difficult driving situations it's not a big deal, if it hits it all the time regardless it could indicate an issue.

Your temperature recovery seems to be pretty slow though. And that's at speed, the fans shouldn't be running then. That should be all on the incoming air flow, the radiator, and water pump.

The lower hose is definitely a concern, and could be adding to your problems. If there's a flow restriction there it would definitely effect the temperatures and the ability of the radiator to cool. Not sure I have a specific fix for you, but I would be looking for a lower hose that can connect that radiator up without any kind of a kink or restriction.

Beyond that, your car is acting like the radiator and fans are undersized. The fans are low on CFM IMHO, I don't care what their "true" rating is all about. 3,000 cfm is the lowest rating I would use on the street. But the temperature at cruise is also high, and that's on the radiator and water circulation. So the lower hose is an issue. But if that doesn't take care of it, there's either another restriction, some kind of blockage, or the radiator is undersized.

The price tag is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Most of the aftermarket fans out there underperform for the price, the Ford Contour fans outperform most of the big name, high dollar aftermarket electric fans out there. The radiator surprises me a little, but so does the whole package and the "advice" you've been getting from the manufacturers. You should be able to run a 180* thermostat with a 200*F on, 185*F off switch and cool just fine, assuming the radiator and fans are sized appropriately. The IR temp gun is a good idea, make sure you're actually running the temperatures you're seeing on the gauge, and check to make sure your thermostat is opening and closing when it should.

 

[autoxcuda]

Northeastmopar,

Sounds like MRL built the motor. Did you supply the block? What kind of block prep did he/you do?

Do you have the factory rubber seal on you hood that seals against the radiator support?

Do you have this info?:

-compression: ??
-piston: Icon part number ??
-water pump brand (a/c or non a/c)??

From what I’ve read here and another thread of yours these are the basics of your motor. Please make any corrections:

-416 stroker
-770 Holley double pumper
-Edelbrock RPM intake
-Edelbrock heads
-Cam: lunati 60404: 234/242@050, lift 513 533.
-exhaust: Dougs Headers
-727 trans
-3:55 rear

 

[autoxcuda]

Northeastmopar, your combo is extremely similar to my 416. Very similar Comp cam 236/242 lift 501/510 110 centerline. Pump 91 California spec gas with measured 9.7:1 compression.

I cool it with a el cheapo Chinese Champion 4 row with clutch driven 16” fan. That fan is an MP 18” with 1” clipped every blade so it would clear the center inlet hose tube. Champion has now moved them to the proper drivers side edge. I run reverse osmosis water from the Grocery Store and Justice Brothers Super Radiator Cooler.

I live in one of the SoCal Valleys that gets to 90-100 degrees and there is a steep grade to get out of that Valley.