Hard starting assistance please.

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
Ok so car has been in the shop being restored for the past 15 months. So problem one is the old gas going through it. I put 91 octane in and some octane booster in. Motor is an LA based 408 with about 1000 miles in it. Brand new edelbrock 1906 carb. Car starts real hard, and has a desire to stall but once warmed up seems OK. Now I didn’t run the new plug wires and I was looking at them and, from the diagrams I have looked at, they appear to be off. Any assistance will be appreciated. My finger is pointed at #1
47985684-AAC5-4843-AC69-2C0B3627356B.jpeg
 

Joey4speed

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
2,008
Reaction score
1,804
Location
Coastal NC
Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, for all V-8s.
Small block distributors turn Clockwise.
Big block distributors turn Counter clockwise.
 
Last edited:

Dana67Dart

The parts you don't add don't cause you no trouble
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2017
Messages
10,687
Reaction score
8,062
Location
Northern Colorado
The location of the #1 wire on the cap might be off from where the cap says #1 should be, because the drive gear is not clocked correctly, nothing wrong with it just you and any person who has to work on it needs to remember
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
Thanks for the replies. Makes sense. I just can’t for the life of me figure out the hard starting.
 

67Dart273

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
56,337
Reaction score
28,010
Location
Idaho
^^What Dana is trying to say is that the no1 wire does not have to be in the no1 "book designated tower" for the engine to be properly in time. Two things that pops up lately is "rotor phasing" (Google that) and MSD does not like "dial up" timing lights

Other than that general tune up, cam timing, incorrect timing marks, and "just where is" the timing, what is the timing curve in the dist, and IS IT working in other words is the mechanical advance stuck

FUEL Did you drain it or or just add to it? Maybe the carb has issues, non working/ not fully working accel pump, partially clogged idle passages etc

Have you checked how does the spark look cranking? Any voltage issues in the system?
 

tonysrt

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
649
Location
Northport, NY
If engine runs fine when warm, no backfiring or any other weird symptom, then probably a fuel draw problem. Did you change fuel filter? Check carb for fuel when you hit throttle, remove air cleaner and see if gas is coming thru from accelerator pump. Could be weak fuel pump. Fuel shot will tell a lot in the carb. Make sure timing is correct. Make sure you have about 8 to12 volts when cranking and about 6 when running.
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
Fuel pressure at the carb reads between 8-12psi. Carb is literally brand new out the box. Once up to temp it runs decent, but it wants to stall in gear even though idle is set too high at idle in neutral
 

tonysrt

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
649
Location
Northport, NY
If you checked all the things I said and all ok then probably a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak puts too much air in to make mixture leaner when it should be richer when cold.
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
If you checked all the things I said and all ok then probably a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak puts too much air in to make mixture leaner when it should be richer when cold.
Fuel filter was new 2 days ago. I’ll have to check volts. Carb is getting gas. I have not checked fuel pump. Would it get that much psi at carb with a bad fuel pump?
 

tonysrt

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
649
Location
Northport, NY
When pump is cranking not operating at engine running speed. If carb pump shot is good when cold or under hard starting problem then probably not fuel issue. That shot of fuel will enable engine to start. Is this an overnight hard starting issue or a little while, say 10- 15 minutes ago it ran?
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
Well, I started it after sitting in the garage over night and it took longer than it should, but started after 20-30 seconds. Pulled it in driveway, washed it, then tried to start it until battery finally died. Jump started it and it did start. Took it around the block to try to clean it out, ran fine. Pulled up to a stop light and it died. Thankfully started back up.
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
^^What Dana is trying to say is that the no1 wire does not have to be in the no1 "book designated tower" for the engine to be properly in time. Two things that pops up lately is "rotor phasing" (Google that) and MSD does not like "dial up" timing lights

Other than that general tune up, cam timing, incorrect timing marks, and "just where is" the timing, what is the timing curve in the dist, and IS IT working in other words is the mechanical advance stuck

FUEL Did you drain it or or just add to it? Maybe the carb has issues, non working/ not fully working accel pump, partially clogged idle passages etc

Have you checked how does the spark look cranking? Any voltage issues in the system?
So the plugs look and smell fouled. I did not drain the gas, maybe was at about just over quarter tank. Added 91 and octane booster to that. Putting new plugs in tomorrow
 

Tooljunkie

King of cobble/master of the broken bolt
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Messages
22,542
Reaction score
26,732
Location
Manitoba
If carb sat as long as the gas in the tank, its likely gummed up. And you cant fix old gas by diluting it.
 

Bobzilla

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
1,309
Reaction score
1,035
Location
Southeast Michigan
Fuel pressure at the carb reads between 8-12psi. Carb is literally brand new out the box. Once up to temp it runs decent, but it wants to stall in gear even though idle is set too high at idle in neutral
Maybe too much fuel pressure. Is it an electric fuel pump? Is there an external regulator?
Does it start easier if you pump more fuel into it or if you don’t pump it and hold throttle open instead?
 

Tooljunkie

King of cobble/master of the broken bolt
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Messages
22,542
Reaction score
26,732
Location
Manitoba
Carb was bought off the shelf 2 days ago. Gas is about 14-15 months old.
Ok.
Buddy has one on his stroked chevy. Somehow dirt made it into carb even with his fancy filters. I pulled top off carb and cleaned it. Instant difference.
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
Maybe too much fuel pressure. Is it an electric fuel pump? Is there an external regulator?
Does it start easier if you pump more fuel into it or if you don’t pump it and hold throttle open instead?
Mechanical, and starts better by pumping more fuel. But then it is flooded
 

pishta

I know I'm right....
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
13,273
Location
Tustin, CA
8-12 into an Edelbrock? got to get that down to ~6!!! Check initial timing and choke setting. New carb should pop it right off if ignition is up to par. Old gas would be low on my concerns. you can easily cross 5-7, just follow each one back to its plug.
 

Challngd73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
784
Location
Upstate ny
8-12 into an Edelbrock? got to get that down to ~6!!! Check initial timing and choke setting. New carb should pop it right off if ignition is up to par. Old gas would be low on my concerns. you can easily cross 5-7, just follow each one back to its plug.
How do I lower the fuel pressure from mechanical pump?
 

67Dart273

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
56,337
Reaction score
28,010
Location
Idaho
All Chrysler V8's......
And a lot of others. Did you know the "old school" 289/302/390 Fords are the same? All that makes them different is the way the cylinders are numbered, and of course the timing marks are on the "what would be" no2 in other engines
 

pishta

I know I'm right....
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
13,273
Location
Tustin, CA
And a lot of others. Did you know the "old school" 289/302/390 Fords are the same? All that makes them different is the way the cylinders are numbered, and of course the timing marks are on the "what would be" no2 in other engines
351W, 302HO...weird 13726548 but in Chrysler numbering it would be 18726543 but we would see TDC at Fords 5, Ford used TDC off their #1...Maybe ours but backwards rotation? Aw, too much information!
ford-302HO-351W-firing-order.jpg
 
Top