Hard starts after running

[OllieDemon45]

So it seems everytime the engine has been running at normal temp for 15 mins or so, if i shut it off, it is a pain to restart.
Let say i drive through town and have to get gas, i shut off the engine while pumping fuel, i have to almost floor it to get it to restart.
It rolls over normal but just struggles to restart.
Motor is a 340. It has an Edlebrock 1406 carb with an Edlebrock torker 340 intake.
Could it be Vapor Lock?? maybe timing issue or somethikng else? I am not an engine tuner by any means.
Just learning as i go.

 

[SS Lancer]

Verify timing first
Then if issue still relevant go to parts store and get filter with bypass provision it's pretty simple process and maybe it helps you !!
Try one for 70s Amc or Mopar it has a vapor outlet with a .060 orifice that returns to tank.
Alcohol 10% in fuel boils around 170 deg (F) valid if u running such.

 

[mopar head]

Try 2, 1/4 throttle pumps before turning the key. Works for me.

 

[SS Lancer]

Carquest # 86040
Meets criteria above

 

[12many]

Along with all the above, if you don’t already have one I’d install a wood/fiber type insulator. Running a 625 AVS2 on a 318/360 Performer atop a 90 318 in a W150 and had heat soak hard starting at stops as well, the Edelbrock insulator (can’t remember part#) helped quite a bit. Still have to slowly depress the pedal as I start cranking but it fires up and clears out much quicker using less pedal with the insulator.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I agree with the timing comment. All too often, people have too little initial timing.

 

[Bewy]

If it starts ok cold, but not hot, I do not see the timing *** being the culprit. If hard to start hot AND cold, could be timing.

The symptom sounds like flooding. So check the float level, as described in the Edel manual, available online.
A fibre/phenolic spacer under the carb is also a good idea.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

My 71 340 Duster . I went to a car show after sitting there all day car fired up and I drove to an Ice cream stand up the street close to home I sat there for about 20 minutes and the sub started going down. I went to start it and it would not start .

What I notice is the fuel pump was not changing sound like it always does when pressure was up. I shut the pump off and took the air cleaner off it was flooding. So I left the pump off and held it flat to the floor and it started but when I turned the pump on it died. So I kept turning the pump on and off and after a couple times it stayed running. I felt like a fool in front of all the other people there with cars.

This puzzled me it never did this before. But On the way home from the show I stopped and top the tank off with pump gas before going to the ice cream stand.

After some research and talking to others we determined the ethanol / oxygenated fuel was boiling in the line and carb. This caused the needle and seat not to close due to the floats not being lifted and the constant dead ending pressure on them

I installed a return line in the car using return regulator. This allowed the fuel to circulate. The car never did this again. I found out in the late 80's mopar install a return system on all there cars for this reason. Now every car I build gets a return filter if it has a mechanical pump. Electric pump cars get a return regulator.

The picture below of the orange car you can see I added the return line . on the other engine with the mechanical pump was for a car I just finished. It works perfect just went to the same show and stopped at the same ice cream stand.


I believe this is your problem if you don't find it to be spark related. My car never did it after it started and restarted unless I drove it and went to start it after it sat for only 15 minutes. Once it cooled down there was not a problem or if I restarted it soon after it was shut off..

Before the return on the Electric pump car

After the return regulator was installed

This is the return filter used on the mech. fuel pump cars by the factory in the 80's due to this problem with the fuel boiling

 

[66fyssh]

This is the return filter used on the mech. fuel pump cars by the factory in the 80's due to this problem with the fuel boiling

Nice work. Are you running the return line from the end of your fuel rail back to the filter?

 

[cudamark]

So it seems everytime the engine has been running at normal temp for 15 mins or so, if i shut it off, it is a pain to restart.
Let say i drive through town and have to get gas, i shut off the engine while pumping fuel, i have to almost floor it to get it to restart.
It rolls over normal but just struggles to restart.
Motor is a 340. It has an Edlebrock 1406 carb with an Edlebrock torker 340 intake.
Could it be Vapor Lock?? maybe timing issue or somethikng else? I am not an engine tuner by any means.
Just learning as i go

Percolation and/or carb flooding. You've already been shown ways to cool the fuel.

 

[V8 Sam]

Might not be relevant to you set up, but in mine my headers are practically wrapped around the original starter motor, if the motor has been idling for some time or slowly driven around town, I find it's harder to start as the starter motor is extremely hot.

If I've been crusing and the air has been flowing over it it starts just as normal.

 

[AJ/FormS]

It rolls over normal but just struggles to restart.

I'll bet you a quarter that your throttles are too far closed, and the transfers are not fueling.
Here is a base idle-tune for your SBM. This is your base idle-tune, and that is all it is. It assumes that your PCV is functioning properly, that the only air your intake is getting is thru the proper channels, that your secondaries are closed up tight but Not sticking, and that you have a street cam of 230 Intake degrees or less.

Remove the carb, hold the throttle closed, flip it over and look. The transfer slot exposure should be;
for a 220 or smaller cam; about square; to very slightly taller than wide.
for a 230/235 cam, visibly taller than wide.
Using the idle speed screw, make it so.
Now, lightly close the mixture screws all the way, then open them up to 2.5 turns. Reinstall the carb.
Fill the carb, then fire it up. Don't touch anything before she is warmed up.
If the idle speed it too fast or too slow,
DO NOT adjust the speed screw!
Instead, add or subtract timing; with the engine running, just reach over to the distributor and crank it, until you like the idle speed, without regard to the actual numbers. The engine DOES NOT CARE about idle-timing; if the AFR is right, it will idle down to ZERO degrees timing. Later, depending on the cam and cylinder pressure, you can try some other settings but right now, leave the timing-lite in the toolbox.
Now, do this; shut the car off with the key, but before it stops running altogether, turn it back on; she should spring back to life; with the engine still running, do it again. Try not smile your ears off.
Next, shut it off, wait 10 minutes then crank it up.
Click, vroom-vroom, is what you are looking for.
If it doesn't start right up, something is wrong.
Go in the house and stare at your wife's BooBs for a few minutes and forget all your troubles.... until tomorrow.
Or until the engine has cooled to below about 100*F
Touch nothing!
Then crank it.
If it fires right up, well we ruled out percolation right, I mean, the float bowl had to be full enough to start without help from the choke right.....
But if it cranks with no hint of firing up,TOUCH NOTHING!
Get out and splash a teaspoon of fresh gas straight down each primary throttle bore, then go crank it, marking time as to how long it takes to begin running.
If it starts right up then dies, the float bowl is likely empty and your job is to figure out why.
If it cranks up and runs , then it just needed some choke. But
If if it cranks and sputters and cranks but won't fire, and for sure you only splashed just ONE teaspoon down each bore, then it is now likely flooded; floor the pedal, and keep it down! lets see what happens. If it clears and fires up, increasing steadily in revs, LIFT! off the gas man, don't blow it up. When the revs get to between 2000 and 3000, lift right off the pedal and let her idle.
If the cold engine idles, on the trims I recommended, then it is now rich enough...... if nothing else.
This is your starting point.
Now go get the timing lite, install and read it, writing the number down together with it's associated rpm. Also record the mixture screw settings, the approximte T-slot exposure, and, if you have a fuel-pressure gauge, record the psi to the nearest 1/4 psi.

Once you get this done, then you got a buncha other work to do.
You'll know you got it right when:
the engine starts right up when cold, or warm, or hot. Click-vroom,vroom; or something real close to that. AND
the shift from P/N to in-gear does not bang overly harshly, AND
You do not experience any off-idle, or tip-in stumble, when driving away.
Those are other issues related to, Transfer-slot exposure underneath the throttles. We'll deal with those if/when they pop-up.
Finally, to be safe, check your powertiming;
if it is more than 38* don't floor the engine at low-rpm (under 3600)
If it is under 25ish degrees expect that engine to be sluggish, until you get the idle-tune finished.
Ideally it will fall into the window of 32 to 36 degrees somewhere between 3200 and 3600, but you'll have to deal with that later.
Ok so, I know what yur thinking, mmmmmm Boobs; pervert, lol.
Happy HotRodding

 

[RustyRatRod]

My 71 340 Duster . I went to a car show after sitting there all day car fired up and I drove to an Ice cream stand up the street close to home I sat there for about 20 minutes and the sub started going down. I went to start it and it would not start .

What I notice is the fuel pump was not changing sound like it always does when pressure was up. I shut the pump off and took the air cleaner off it was flooding. So I left the pump off and held it flat to the floor and it started but when I turned the pump on it died. So I kept turning the pump on and off and after a couple times it stayed running. I felt like a fool in front of all the other people there with cars.

This puzzled me it never did this before. But On the way home from the show I stopped and top the tank off with pump gas before going to the ice cream stand.

After some research and talking to others we determined the ethanol / oxygenated fuel was boiling in the line and carb. This caused the needle and seat not to close due to the floats not being lifted and the constant dead ending pressure on them

I installed a return line in the car using return regulator. This allowed the fuel to circulate. The car never did this again. I found out in the late 80's mopar install a return system on all there cars for this reason. Now every car I build gets a return filter if it has a mechanical pump. Electric pump cars get a return regulator.

The picture below of the orange car you can see I added the return line . on the other engine with the mechanical pump was for a car I just finished. It works perfect just went to the same show and stopped at the same ice cream stand.


I believe this is your problem if you don't find it to be spark related. My car never did it after it started and restarted unless I drove it and went to start it after it sat for only 15 minutes. Once it cooled down there was not a problem or if I restarted it soon after it was shut off..

Before the return on the Electric pump car

View attachment 1716095313
After the return regulator was installed
View attachment 1716095314


This is the return filter used on the mech. fuel pump cars by the factory in the 80's due to this problem with the fuel boiling
View attachment 1716095315

Those are good filters. Nice work, as usual, Steve.

 

[Agent_Orange]

I'll bet you a quarter that your throttles are too far closed, and the transfers are not fueling.
Here is a base idle-tune for your SBM. This is your base idle-tune, and that is all it is. It assumes that your PCV is functioning properly, that the only air your intake is getting is thru the proper channels, that your secondaries are closed up tight but Not sticking, and that you have a street cam of 230 Intake degrees or less.

Remove the carb, hold the throttle closed, flip it over and look. The transfer slot exposure should be;
for a 220 or smaller cam; about square; to very slightly taller than wide.
for a 230/235 cam, visibly taller than wide.
Using the idle speed screw, make it so.
Now, lightly close the mixture screws all the way, then open them up to 2.5 turns. Reinstall the carb.
Fill the carb, then fire it up. Don't touch anything before she is warmed up.
If the idle speed it too fast or too slow,
DO NOT adjust the speed screw!
Instead, add or subtract timing; with the engine running, just reach over to the distributor and crank it, until you like the idle speed, without regard to the actual numbers. The engine DOES NOT CARE about idle-timing; if the AFR is right, it will idle down to ZERO degrees timing. Later, depending on the cam and cylinder pressure, you can try some other settings but right now, leave the timing-lite in the toolbox.
Now, do this; shut the car off with the key, but before it stops running altogether, turn it back on; she should spring back to life; with the engine still running, do it again. Try not smile your ears off.
Next, shut it off, wait 10 minutes then crank it up.
Click, vroom-vroom, is what you are looking for.
If it doesn't start right up, something is wrong.
Go in the house and stare at your wife's BooBs for a few minutes and forget all your troubles.... until tomorrow.
Or until the engine has cooled to below about 100*F
Touch nothing!
Then crank it.
If it fires right up, well we ruled out percolation right, I mean, the float bowl had to be full enough to start without help from the choke right.....
But if it cranks with no hint of firing up,TOUCH NOTHING!
Get out and splash a teaspoon of fresh gas straight down each primary throttle bore, then go crank it, marking time as to how long it takes to begin running.
If it starts right up then dies, the float bowl is likely empty and your job is to figure out why.
If it cranks up and runs , then it just needed some choke. But
If if it cranks and sputters and cranks but won't fire, and for sure you only splashed just ONE teaspoon down each bore, then it is now likely flooded; floor the pedal, and keep it down! lets see what happens. If it clears and fires up, increasing steadily in revs, LIFT! off the gas man, don't blow it up. When the revs get to between 2000 and 3000, lift right off the pedal and let her idle.
If the cold engine idles, on the trims I recommended, then it is now rich enough...... if nothing else.
This is your starting point.
Now go get the timing lite, install and read it, writing the number down together with it's associated rpm. Also record the mixture screw settings, the approximte T-slot exposure, and, if you have a fuel-pressure gauge, record the psi to the nearest 1/4 psi.

Once you get this done, then you got a buncha other work to do.
You'll know you got it right when:
the engine starts right up when cold, or warm, or hot. Click-vroom,vroom; or something real close to that. AND
the shift from P/N to in-gear does not bang overly harshly, AND
You do not experience any off-idle, or tip-in stumble, when driving away.
Those are other issues related to, Transfer-slot exposure underneath the throttles. We'll deal with those if/when they pop-up.
Finally, to be safe, check your powertiming;
if it is more than 38* don't floor the engine at low-rpm (under 3600)
If it is under 25ish degrees expect that engine to be sluggish, until you get the idle-tune finished.
Ideally it will fall into the window of 32 to 36 degrees somewhere between 3200 and 3600, but you'll have to deal with that later.
Ok so, I know what yur thinking, mmmmmm Boobs; pervert, lol.
Happy HotRodding

Dude.... this is a completely different approach to idle set up from anything I've read before. I'm genuinely curious, just might be my Sunday project.

The thread fizzled out and no one replied, but thanks for that write up.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Dude.... this is a completely different approach to idle set up from anything I've read before. I'm genuinely curious, just might be my Sunday project.

The thread fizzled out and no one replied, but thanks for that write up.

I'll be watching.

 

[Agent_Orange]

I'll be watching.

Put my 318 together back when I was 17, around '03. I have no clue on my cam specs. I remember telling the guy I wanted the most aggressive cam I could use without head work. If that helps. The car sounds good, but runs a bit soft until I hit 3,000 with a 2200ish stall. If that info helps, cool.

Question is: should I adjust for taller than wide transfer slots without actually knowing cam specs?

*edit* never mentioned my carb - 20 year old edelbrock 1405. 600 cfm

 

[Inertia]

When we got that complaint, it was generally fuel percolation, or veturi syphoning.
After shut-down hot, when it's likely to happen, take the top off the air-cleaner and look, not glance, down the carb throats front and back, - often you can see fuel dripping down into the manifold, it'll continue as long as there is pressure in the line to fill the draining float-bowl .
Percolation is heat, need to add suitable insulated spacer. (Usually associated with summer heat).
Syphoning is usually a plugged bleed, blow out those little jet thingies or poke it with "tag-wire".
Good luck .

 

[Mattax]

1972 Chrysler Engine Performance Facts & Fixes Service Book (Session 291)

1973 Chrysler How To Get Them Started, Master Technician Service Conference Series (Session 307)

also available at www.mymopar.com

 

[Agent_Orange]

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to revive an old thread. Simply replying to the idle set up AJ mentioned above. It peaked my interest.

 

[Mattax]

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to revive an old thread. Simply replying to the idle set up AJ mentioned above. It peaked my interest.

I see. Well for any downdraft carb it is important to keep the transfer slots in the range they will contribute the correct amount of fuel and air at idle. The method sugested by A/J will put it ballpark correct on any standard older 4150/60.
A search should turn up evidence this is not something A/J pulled out of thin air.
eg

Looking for a little advice on the timing numbers I just pulled from my 73’ Duster (backfire issue)

The best answer will require knowing the timing vs. rpm. For example, you set timing at 5* at 750 rpm What was timing at 900 or 1000 rpm, 1400 rpm etc.? My guess is the throttle was too far open,, so when the vacuum advance was reconnected, it added timing and the idle rpm floated up. (Just...

www.forabodiesonly.com

When transfer slots are out of range, then it is possible for idle to be OK, off-idle will have dead spot or delayed response.
Based on Holley's recommendations printed in Urich & Fisher's book.

 

[krazykuda]

If it's hard to start after you run it...

Then don't run it, and it will start fine....

 

[Agent_Orange]

I see. Well for any downdraft carb it is important to keep the transfer slots in the range they will contribute the correct amount of fuel and air at idle. The method sugested by A/J will put it ballpark correct on any standard older 4150/60.
A search should turn up evidence this is not something A/J pulled out of thin air.
eg

Looking for a little advice on the timing numbers I just pulled from my 73’ Duster (backfire issue)

The best answer will require knowing the timing vs. rpm. For example, you set timing at 5* at 750 rpm What was timing at 900 or 1000 rpm, 1400 rpm etc.? My guess is the throttle was too far open,, so when the vacuum advance was reconnected, it added timing and the idle rpm floated up. (Just...

www.forabodiesonly.com

When transfer slots are out of range, then it is possible for idle to be OK, off-idle will have dead spot or delayed response.
Based on Holley's recommendations printed in Urich & Fisher's book.

I didn't know what I didn't know. It makes more sense, setting the transfer slot and adjusting the initial to bring the rpm into line. Instead of using the idle screw to account for a timing number.

following the procedure outlined by AJ, I just pulled 5 degrees initial out, from 19 to 14. The engine is more responsive despite the decrease in timing. I will need to add s few degrees of mechanical back in the distributor. Not a big deal.

 

[Mattax]

I didn't know what I didn't know. It makes more sense, setting the transfer slot and adjusting the initial to bring the rpm into line. Instead of using the idle screw to account for a timing number.

following the procedure outlined by AJ, I just pulled 5 degrees initial out, from 19 to 14. The engine is more responsive despite the decrease in timing. I will need to add s few degrees of mechanical back in the distributor. Not a big deal.

If the engine is more responsive, and (if an automatic) the same or less drop in rpm going into D, then it would seem to be the engine like it.
When its warmed up, adjust the idle mix screws. The engine should die as you screw them in, back them out to strongest idle and then a little richer (1/8 or 1/4 turn at most). (The engine doesn't make much power at idle rpms so it needs to be richer in gear than with no load. )

Then as far as timing, maybe nothing wrong with 14* initial. Maybe thats what it likes. Factory pre-emissions timing for 273 4 bbls was around 10-12* at 600 or 650 rpm. B-engines with 4 bbls 12.5 BTC around 600 rpm. Advance should begin between 650 and 750 rpm. Factory advances are pretty quick off-idle to about 1600 rpm.

 

[AJ/FormS]

For an Auto-trans car;
The first time the engine cares about it's Power-Timing is at stall. Below stall, it doesn't much matter what the timing is, so long as it idles nicely, takes throttle nicely, and doesn't bang into gear too harshly. The tune I outlined, will accomplish that.
to get the missing timing back at Part-Throttle, you use the Vcan.
However, in most cases the Sparkport is really too far up the bore for a cammed up stock-Scr engine, and vacuum advance will not be available until close to stall-speed. This often makes throttle-response from idle to stall, a lil sluggish. The only proper cure for that, that I know of, is more cylinder pressure, or more stall-timing.
The problem with getting more stall-timing, is that usually, it requires more initial-timing...... which will increase the idle-speed, which you will reduce with the speed screw, which will then upset youn T-slot sync, and usually, the trans bangs into gear, and with a low-stall convertor, the engone may pull against the brakes;
Therefor, IMO, you don't want to do that..... lol.
If more cylinder pressure is not an option, there is one trick that I have used, namely, a two-stage timing curve. But it's pretty tricky to set up, and if the stall is too low, the engine could get into detonation. If you solve that with a higher-octane gas, well, you shouldda just set the engine up with more cylinder pressure in the first place, cuz running best gas all the time, is gonna quickly gobble up all the money you didn't spend on doing that in the first place..........
The two-stage curve can help to solve the sluggish throttle response, so I use it as much as possible. I don't have a distributor machine, so it's a trial and error thing for me; but is so worth it, even if it takes all summer.
However, if you try it with the V-can, remember that the can starts dropping advance very quickly once the load begins increasing, which may or may not be a big deal, depending on the combo...........

Here's a hypothetical case;
Say you had a 2800 stall TC, and a 22* Vcan with Power-Timing of 28* at 2800. Together, at no load, that totals up to 50* at 2800, but the load is just going to the Tc, at which time, the engine, to stay out of detonation, only wants the 28*, so in this case, the Vcan has to be fully dropped out at 2800WOT.
But lets say, you are just cruising around at Part Throttle/2800/ and with the full 50* total. I guarantee that, as long as the engine stays out of detonation, you will be able to control the torque with the gas-pedal, and the timing will vary automatically from 50 to 28, seemlessy, which, working in tandem with the power-valve, and the vacuum secondaries (AVS, whatever) will be so stinking much fun, that you will want to be right there as much as possible.
Now just gear the car to make that happen at a comfortable speed, and you will be one happy camper!
Oh sorry;
2800 in Second gear will take 4.88s to get the speed to be ~30 mph, lol .
In First gear, 2800 with 2.94s , will get you the same ~ 30 mph.
The engine doesn't care how it has to pull from 30 mph @ 2800, with gearing; it will perform just the same either way. (4.88 x 1.45 = 7.08, and 2.94 x 2.45= 7.20)
However, getting to that 30 mph with 2.94s might be a whole nuther story compared to 4.88s ..................... lol. (If you need some 4.88s call me, lol.)
Between these two extremes are 3.91s, which will get you 2800 @ Part Throttle at; ~22mph in First, and ~38 in Second. Meh ...........
So much for hypotheticals, lol.

 

[Agent_Orange]

For an Auto-trans car;
The first time the engine cares about it's Power-Timing is at stall. Below stall, it doesn't much matter what the timing is, so long as it idles nicely, takes throttle nicely, and doesn't bang into gear too harshly. The tune I outlined, will accomplish that.
to get the missing timing back at Part-Throttle, you use the Vcan.
However, in most cases the Sparkport is really too far up the bore for a cammed up stock-Scr engine, and vacuum advance will not be available until close to stall-speed. This often makes throttle-response from idle to stall, a lil sluggish. The only proper cure for that, that I know of, is more cylinder pressure, or more stall-timing.
The problem with getting more stall-timing, is that usually, it requires more initial-timing...... which will increase the idle-speed, which you will reduce with the speed screw, which will then upset youn T-slot sync, and usually, the trans bangs into gear, and with a low-stall convertor, the engone may pull against the brakes;
Therefor, IMO, you don't want to do that..... lol.
If more cylinder pressure is not an option, there is one trick that I have used, namely, a two-stage timing curve. But it's pretty tricky to set up, and if the stall is too low, the engine could get into detonation. If you solve that with a higher-octane gas, well, you shouldda just set the engine up with more cylinder pressure in the first place, cuz running best gas all the time, is gonna quickly gobble up all the money you didn't spend on doing that in the first place..........
The two-stage curve can help to solve the sluggish throttle response, so I use it as much as possible. I don't have a distributor machine, so it's a trial and error thing for me; but is so worth it, even if it takes all summer.
However, if you try it with the V-can, remember that the can starts dropping advance very quickly once the load begins increasing, which may or may not be a big deal, depending on the combo...........

Here's a hypothetical case;
Say you had a 2800 stall TC, and a 22* Vcan with Power-Timing of 28* at 2800. Together, at no load, that totals up to 50* at 2800, but the load is just going to the Tc, at which time, the engine, to stay out of detonation, only wants the 28*, so in this case, the Vcan has to be fully dropped out at 2800WOT.
But lets say, you are just cruising around at Part Throttle/2800/ and with the full 50* total. I guarantee that, as long as the engine stays out of detonation, you will be able to control the torque with the gas-pedal, and the timing will vary automatically from 50 to 28, seemlessy, which, working in tandem with the power-valve, and the vacuum secondaries (AVS, whatever) will be so stinking much fun, that you will want to be right there as much as possible.
Now just gear the car to make that happen at a comfortable speed, and you will be one happy camper!
Oh sorry;
2800 in Second gear will take 4.88s to get the speed to be ~30 mph, lol .
In First gear, 2800 with 2.94s , will get you the same ~ 30 mph.
The engine doesn't care how it has to pull from 30 mph @ 2800, with gearing; it will perform just the same either way. (4.88 x 1.45 = 7.08, and 2.94 x 2.45= 7.20)
However, getting to that 30 mph with 2.94s might be a whole nuther story compared to 4.88s ..................... lol. (If you need some 4.88s call me, lol.)
Between these two extremes are 3.91s, which will get you 2800 @ Part Throttle at; ~22mph in First, and ~38 in Second. Meh ...........
So much for hypotheticals, lol.

So I do have a 727, tci shift kit, 2200ish stall (needs replaced). 3.73 gears. Had 36 degrees timing trimmed to all in at @ 2400rpm before carb idle procedure. After setting carb idle I'm sitting @ 31 degrees. So I will fix that when I'm happy with idle. Took it for a spin after setting carb idle, goes into drive smoother than before, about 100 rpm drop. Idle is nice, off throttle is responsive. Still not starting easy when warm after the 10 min sit. Ran out of time to play with it tonight. But so far so good.