Harland sharp roller rockers - measure pushrod length

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If you look at your bottom picture, you see how the oil hole to the cup is positioned relative to the adjuster. You have the adjuster correctly postioned. I'd bet everything I have that if you measure how far the adjuster is out of the rocker it will be very close to .281 which is what it should be.

Now you have to consider what happens at low engine speeds. Most guys don't run enough pump volume and not enough pressure. At low engine speeds, look how far the oil has to squirt out of that hole just to hit the adjuster and oil it and the cup. These are not Chevys and running a low volume pump with high spring loads and agressive lobes is death to pushrods and adjusters.


Also, you can be sure your shafts have to go up and towards the intake manifold. They ALL do. If you go to Mikes web site (b3racingengines.com) and read his tech stuff and really think about it, you'll wonder why people use lash caps, longer valves and other crutches which only make it worse. A centered pattern isn't nearly as important as getting the sweep down.

How about switching to oil through push rods and a hv/hp oil pump? I am running a stock replacement Milodon oil pan and I am running these lifters Comp Cams part # 867-16
 
How about switching to oil through push rods and a hv/hp oil pump? I am running a stock replacement Milodon oil pan and I am running these lifters Comp Cams part # 867-16

How would you oil the shafts with those rockers and pushrod oiling?

I was at PRI in...I *THINK* it was 2000...could have been 2001 and I was in an interesting conversation with a (at that time) Pro Stock engine builder and a rocker arm guy.

The gist of it was they were discussing how they could NOT pushrod oil a PS engine. They were considering the weight of the oil in the pushrod and some other things. Quite an interesting discussion.

The Chrysler system will oil the pushrods fine if it's correct. I've run as high as 360 on the seat and over 900 over the nose and didn't have pushrod oiling. At that level, one small mistake and it eats parts.

There was a guy who was running AA/GS who was using a Donovan. I can't think of his name. He was tall...like 6'7" and weighed about 185. He had to fold up like a paper clip to get into the car. He made is own rockers and shafts. He was the one who helped me get the oiling issues correct. There is more to it. When you get up over 300 on the seat it becomes more critical.
 
It is possible to leave the shaft oiling and add pushrod oiling buy using a oil through pushrod. The 867 can be used in an American Motors engine which uses an oil through system. I have considered doing this but have had no problems with Harland Sharp @ 270# on the seat and 780# open. You're for sure not going there with a hydraulic flat tappet.
 
That's what I will be doing... oil thru pushrods and shaft oiled HS . It was recommended to restrict the oil feed to .060 to the head.
This is on W2s . I already know I will need to have B3e help me correct geometry. But not to that point quite yet.
 
It is possible to leave the shaft oiling and add pushrod oiling buy using a oil through pushrod. The 867 can be used in an American Motors engine which uses an oil through system. I have considered doing this but have had no problems with Harland Sharp @ 270# on the seat and 780# open. You're for sure not going there with a hydraulic flat tappet.

That can be done. I think the OP already has lifters.
 
Mike and I discussed the oil through pushrods with the cup style, he feels the oil through push-rods may be a factor with the push in adapters for the cups..
They can probably be made by Smith Brothers or Manton but there is probably an added cost too..

oh well rabbit holes everywhere I guess..
 
Ok, I received the geometry correction kit from Mike @B3RE
Gonna see where this pathway leads me

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I am installing Harland sharp roller rockers on my set of trickflow 240 heads. I am trying to get a measurement for the pushrods.
I am not sure where the exposed threads for the adjuster are supposed to be counted from since there is a recess. Is it from the area where the threads exit the recessed area of the rocker or when looking across the bottom of the anodized area?

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I used HS rocker arms on the 240 heads on my 470 low deck. Worked fine right out of the box. Engine made more than 700 hp on pump gas. Seemed like a bolt on deal to me.
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Wow Andy you have alot of valve lift there on exhaust side correct, (more than I am used to). I hope I will achieve 700+ hp on my build using 270's w/.660 valve lift intake.
 
I used HS rocker arms on the 240 heads on my 470 low deck. Worked fine right out of the box. Engine made more than 700 hp on pump gas. Seemed like a bolt on deal to me.
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OK Andy, I'm not interested in a fight, but how about a favor? I will throw you a bone here, for goodwill and in the interest of learning. I'm sure you still have your sweep gage around, so measure the sweep as is, then raise the rocker shaft .025" and measure again. I guarantee it will be less after the shaft is raised. Granted, yours isn't off very far, but you have the already relocated stands in the TF240 heads, and almost .800" lift to thank for that. The OP has a lot less lift, and his geometry is far worse because of it.

I'm sure a lot of members would be interested in what you find. In the interest of promoting and furthering the hobby for Mopar enthusiasts, I hope you will do it and post the results. It won't cost anything but your time.

Thanks in advance!
 
I'd bet your sweep is .080 wide.
Actually, it will be about .059". With the Trick Flow heads, the stands have already been raised some, or it would be closer to .120". It should be .052" for that combination. Like I said, it's not off by a lot, but others with less lift won't be that close.
 
On second thought, that lift is with checking springs. There will be less lift with the actual running springs because of deflection. You could probably raise the shaft .035" to be closer to a realistic correct geometry.
 
Easy boys... One of you ride back to town and get a **** load of dimes....
 
Well I finally got around to finishing the top end, the pushrod angles are definitely improved. Lot’s of support Mike.

Thanks Mike @B3RE

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Guessing but from the pictures it looks like you had to go up .187 maybe .200 but that's from my magic eyes and a picture.

Did you measure the shims?

Also, how wide is your sweep pattern??


TIA
 
I did not measure the shims, Mike might have that info.

After I finished installing the shims, I was amazed at how much correction was applied.

After install the sweep was very narrow, my visual was maybe around a 1/32 +/- unfortunately my harbor freight micrometer is no longer in this world.

I have only limited time to work on my project because I have been away on business for almost two years, so time is kinda precious, I trust that Mike did his work right and in the end it all worked as advertised.
 
I used HS rocker arms on the 240 heads on my 470 low deck. Worked fine right out of the box. Engine made more than 700 hp on pump gas. Seemed like a bolt on deal to me.
View attachment 1715165756

Same on my victor knock offs , I tried moving things around experimenting , and wound up setting in the stock stands , no nothing. Got a centered thin swipe too !
 
Mike, what is the holdup of all these rocker manufacturers from making specific sets for certain heads or engines? Is it more than just adjusting where the pivot hole is drilled? They have had forever to figure it out!

I have one of your kits on my 440 and the sweep is centered and small. Love it and worth the money to me. Using Hughes rocker arms.
 
Mike, what is the holdup of all these rocker manufacturers from making specific sets for certain heads or engines? Is it more than just adjusting where the pivot hole is drilled? They have had forever to figure it out!

I have one of your kits on my 440 and the sweep is centered and small. Love it and worth the money to me. Using Hughes rocker arms.
The rockers are designed based on where the stand is located in the head. Of the stand location is wrong (and it is), then the rocker will be wrong. They design them for the best compromise when the end user takes them out of the box and bolts them on.

My kits only correct the stand location in the heads for a given combination of parts, but the rocker design is set in stone and can't easily be changed. A custom rocker is the only solution. On the flip side, if they designed a rocker for the correct stand location, but the stand was in the wrong place, the geometry would be worse overall than the compromised rocker. A better Mopar head would have the stands milled flat with blocks for mounting the rocker shafts. Then the blocks could be adjusted to the correct height for each combination.
 
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