Has any one ran a Alternator with a internal voltage regulator?

[74 Dartsport]

Hello my name is nathan baluski. i was curious if any one has ran one of those one wire alternator so there is no need for the external voltage regulator. Is it better then factory? Also im having promblems with my whole system my voltage gauge is bouncing like crazy. im never over charging but it bounces between 8 and 13 on the gauge. i think its the alternator but not sure. also it sends the needle on my fuel gauge all funky and idea how i can fix this please help thankyou.
:wack:

 

[70aarcuda]

all 3 of our race cars has them....friend of mine uses one on his street car.....

batteries stay charged

 

[RobertP]

I have them on 2 of my cars they work great. Sounds to me like you need to check the factory connection at the back of your gauge. I know on my duster before switching to all auto meter gauges the factory voltage gauge has two connections that if they come loose will make the charging system do crazy things

 

[67Dart273]

Hello my name is nathan baluski. i was curious if any one has ran one of those one wire alternator so there is no need for the external voltage regulator. Is it better then factory? Also im having promblems with my whole system my voltage gauge is bouncing like crazy. im never over charging but it bounces between 8 and 13 on the gauge. i think its the alternator but not sure. also it sends the needle on my fuel gauge all funky and idea how i can fix this please help thankyou.
:wack:

Look you need to FIND THE PROBLEM that is causing this before you go around assuming that an internal or one wire is going to "fix" something.

Internal, by the way, and "one wire" are two different things. There are / were many alternators that are / were made with internal regulators, which are not "one wire."

There IS a DIS advantage to using a "one wire" "sometimes."

For one the "sensing" is generally right there at the alternator output terminal. This means that if the charging wire is too small OR IF THERE IS A PROBLEM in the output circuit, the battery voltage will be low, or MAY BOUNCE AROUND

Start by reading this article:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

If you do not have one, go over to MyMopar and download a factory shop manual

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

=========================================

I tend to think of charging problems in several SECTIONS

The alternator

The regulator

The field wiring circuit

The alternator output circuit

==========================================

"Some stuff." If you have not checked voltage RIGHT AT the battery, the charging system might not even be your problem. Might be loose connections inside the passenger compartment

Some other possibilities:

Loose / damaged / corroded connections in the bulkhead (firewall) connector. That is largely what the MAD article above is all about

"Other" loose connections, including right at the alternator

Worn brushes or other internal problems in the alternator

Bad connections in the field wiring, including the connections right at the VR, and (again) the bulkhead connector.

Something wrong in the ammeter. This is somewhat more rare, but does happen, and is addressed in the Mad article

Redfish (member here) has mentioned the following many times. The later cars have a white plastic connector up above the engine near the firewall, connecting the engine harness to the rest of the underhood harness. These are TROUBLE.

 

[74 Dartsport]

Thank you for you time on helping me. this problem is giving me a huge headache not the greatest when it comes to electrical. so i will start from the beginning maybe you will think of some thing i couldn't see. So this problem all started last year when i refinished my dash then put it back tho together. not sure why maybe a wire got screwed up in the processes but i don't think so never changed any thing still have everything grounded. ive been trying to figure the problem out but coming up with nothing. ive checked all the grounds ive replaced voltage reg. also i run a voltage gauge. not sure what to do next i plan to do re wiring of the alt do i still run the output wire on my volt gauge? also parts store said alt was good im running out of ideas please help
thankyou nate baluski

 

[HemiMark]

Look you need to FIND THE PROBLEM that is causing this before you go around assuming that an internal or one wire is going to "fix" something.

Internal, by the way, and "one wire" are two different things. There are / were many alternators that are / were made with internal regulators, which are not "one wire."

There IS a DIS advantage to using a "one wire" "sometimes."

For one the "sensing" is generally right there at the alternator output terminal. This means that if the charging wire is too small OR IF THERE IS A PROBLEM in the output circuit, the battery voltage will be low, or MAY BOUNCE AROUND

Start by reading this article:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

If you do not have one, go over to MyMopar and download a factory shop manual

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

=========================================

I tend to think of charging problems in several SECTIONS

The alternator

The regulator

The field wiring circuit

The alternator output circuit

==========================================

"Some stuff." If you have not checked voltage RIGHT AT the battery, the charging system might not even be your problem. Might be loose connections inside the passenger compartment

Some other possibilities:

Loose / damaged / corroded connections in the bulkhead (firewall) connector. That is largely what the MAD article above is all about

"Other" loose connections, including right at the alternator

Worn brushes or other internal problems in the alternator

Bad connections in the field wiring, including the connections right at the VR, and (again) the bulkhead connector.

Something wrong in the ammeter. This is somewhat more rare, but does happen, and is addressed in the Mad article

Redfish (member here) has mentioned the following many times. The later cars have a white plastic connector up above the engine near the firewall, connecting the engine harness to the rest of the underhood harness. These are TROUBLE.

Fantastic :thumblef:

 

[67Dart273]

............So this problem all started last year when i refinished my dash then put it back tho together. not sure why maybe a wire got screwed up in the processes .............. do i still run the output wire on my volt gauge? also parts store said alt was good im running out of ideas please help
thankyou nate baluski

You could have easily "bumped" some marginal wiring under there and lost connections. The most probable is the bulkhead connector, and the ammeter connections

You keep mentioning voltmeter, did you add one, or what? The original gauge is an ammeter

The Mad article link I posted should answer a lot of questions, it addresses the most common problems

 

[BillGrissom]

An external regulator (most Mopars, even my 1996) is easier to trouble-shoot and often cheaper to repair or even "hot-wire" to get you home on the road, but you must understand how an alternator works. Internal Vreg type are probably better for people who solve problems with "replace everything".

 

[moparmat2000]

The one wire setups have internal regulators in them. The single wire is hooked directly to battery + these come online and charge at about 1,000 rpm. At idle they dont charge and just draw battery power down. This is because there is no voltage regulator sense wire typically off the ignition hot circuit that tells the regulator to come online and charge the battery. Additionally 1 wire setups stay hot all the time and unless you drive your car every day will kill your battery stone dead in short order.

( regular multi wire alternators ) An ign hot sense wire to the voltage regulator uses the amp draw of anything turned on while the vehicle is running as a sense to recharge the battery. Plus when you turn the ign key off no more power to the voltage regulator sense wire = an alternator that wont discharge thr battery when the car is just sitting.

You could say the voltage regulator is the (smart component) it tells the alternator (dumb component) what to do.

1 wire setups are great for race cars, and industrial applications. I mistakenly purchased a denso 50A 1 wire alt without knowing that these will not output at idle, so that really sucks for cruise night. Unless your running a deep cycle marine/RV grade battery.

I purchased a new 2 wire voltage regulator for my denso so i can convert it to allow a sense wire off my ign hot circuit, and a charging malfunction fault light. I would not recommend a 1 wire alternator based on what i found out, unless your putting it on a race car, or a piece of industrial equipment.

Hope this helps
Matt

 

[SalC]

...Additionally 1 wire setups stay hot all the time and unless you drive your car every day will kill your battery stone dead in short order.

...

Matt

Reviving an old thread

In the process of rewiring my 67 Barracuda (M&H harness - factory duplicate). Had a battery drain I couldn't find. It has a Powermaster alternator w/internal VR. The guy I bought the car from used the original harness which had an external voltage regulator too, only he had one wire to the alternator.

Probably my issue?

 

[moparmat2000]

I have a mini denso i am in the process of wiring up. The blue and green wires going to the regulator on the firewall you attach together to eliminate the external regulator. That is your input sense wire. Typically the denso aftermarket has 2 terminals in a T shape config, and an output stud. Terminals are labelled i and L. For ignition and light. I also took some time to wire up a small red light on my ammeter gage i converted to volts.

The way the light circuit works is when ign is on but car isnt running the L circuit shunts to ground internally in the alternator turning the light on. When you start up the car, and its producing electricity that circuit contactor shuts off and the light goes out. If the alternator goes off line while the car is running the circuit closes and the light goes on warning you of a fault.

Theres a nice kit thats sold to use a Toyota mini denso out of a 4 runner i think. I made my own mounting brackets, and spacer, and used a mini 50 amp one advertized for a small block chevy. Dont forget to upsize your output wiring, and bypass the bulkhead connector completely and run it straight to the battery with either a maxi fuse or fisable link in line. The stock 12GA output wiring was never meant for anything above 30 Amp. Neither was the bulkhead connector. Notice the red output lead. In the pic. Its 8GA marine grade AWG copper. I used a 12GA fusable link i made to protect it. Pico wiring sells the fusable link wiring in bulk to make them up yourself.

Heres pix of my install being mocked up. I used .125" thick 7475 T6 aluminum plate, and the spacer i made from steel blackpipe i got from home depot. I turned it on a lathe at work to make sure the ends were straight. Adjuster bolt is 13mm which equates to 1/2" wrench size. This little 50Amp powerhouse weighs almost nothing which is the other reason i used aluminum plate for the brackets, the first reason is i had to make mounting brackets to install it anyways. It feels solid w the aluminum brackets, but if they start to crack, i will remake them out of 1/8" steel plate.

Hope this helps
Matt

 

[famous bob]

I have a mini denso i am in the process of wiring up. The blue and green wires going to the regulator on the firewall you attach together to eliminate the external regulator. That is your input sense wire. Typically the denso aftermarket has 2 terminals in a T shape config, and an output stud. Terminals are labelled i and L. For ignition and light. I also took some time to wire up a small red light on my ammeter gage i converted to volts.

The way the light circuit works is when ign is on but car isnt running the L circuit shunts to ground internally in the alternator turning the light on. When you start up the car, and its producing electricity that circuit contactor shuts off and the light goes out. If the alternator goes off line while the car is running the circuit closes and the light goes on warning you of a fault.

Theres a nice kit thats sold to use a Toyota mini denso out of a 4 runner i think. I made my own mounting brackets, and spacer, and used a mini 50 amp one advertized for a small block chevy. Dont forget to upsize your output wiring, and bypass the bulkhead connector completely and run it straight to the battery with either a maxi fuse or fisable link in line. The stock 12GA output wiring was never meant for anything above 30 Amp. Neither was the bulkhead connector. Notice the red output lead. In the pic. Its 8GA marine grade AWG copper. I used a 12GA fusable link i made to protect it. Pico wiring sells the fusable link wiring in bulk to make them up yourself.

Heres pix of my install being mocked up. I used .125" thick 7475 T6 aluminum plate, and the spacer i made from steel blackpipe i got from home depot. I turned it on a lathe at work to make sure the ends were straight. Adjuster bolt is 13mm which equates to 1/2" wrench size. This little 50Amp powerhouse weighs almost nothing which is the other reason i used aluminum plate for the brackets, the first reason is i had to make mounting brackets to install it anyways. It feels solid w the aluminum brackets, but if they start to crack, i will remake them out of 1/8" steel plate.

Hope this helps
Matt

View attachment 1715155063

View attachment 1715155064

I am not going to go head to head w/ anybody on the 1 wire alt. not working, or argue about any elec. issue. I am not knowledgable enough to do so. I did rewire my 68 fastback w/ an EZ 12 circuit wiring kit. I wanted a one wire set up, and had an alternator built by an old established company out of Kansas. It`s a 130 amp , 1 wire, GM unit, that sets under my motor plate where the fuel pump should be. I let my 505" wedge set for weeks at a time, w/ no battery drainage. I did have to increase the size of the charging wire that goes to the relay on the firewall/close to where the heater motor used to be,that's hooked to my trunk mount battery. Take time to read all these guys suggestions and make ur own mind up !! A one wire will work and keep even a big engine charged. Am I lucky? I don`t know !

 

[moparmat2000]

The only thing i heard about 1 wire setups was that they require to be up to a certain RPMbefore they start charging unlike ign excited setups. Again like bob posted, make your decision based on multiple ideas, and your application. I went 50A but prob coulda gotten away with the stock 12GA wiring, and a bulkhead bypass if i went with a denso mini 35Amp alt. I will be using all led lighting except GE nighthawk halogens. No elect fan as shown by pic. I think stock alt on this car was 20Amp. I plan on a nice 6 speaker stereo no external boom amp, so 50amp might be too much. At the time i bought it, i was contemplating elect fans.

 

[70net440]

We used a Tuff Stuff internal reg. one wire on my son's Dart when we rewired it. No battery drain in two years, and it puts out 14.5 volts at idle. When we ordered it from Summit, they had the wrong part number listed. Got in touch with Tuff Stuff to get the actual one wire model.

 

[superchargeddrt]

Don't discount the possibility of the ignition switch being bad. Over the years the contacts in the switch tend to wear or get dirty. This causes a varying voltage at the ignition terminal of the voltage regulator. A lot of times you will notice that your headlights will have a flicker to them. I fixed this condition by adding a external relay. I fed the relay coil off of the original voltage regulator wire and supplied the ignition .terminal of the regulator from the normally open contact of the relay that was being fed from the hot post of the starter relay. Just something to think about.