Have a bent frame. Looking for knowledge on the subject.

[kemikal embalance]

My first post, did not want to put it under the chassis section yet. Apologies if this is the wrong place.
Bottom line, Pass front frame rail took a hit and got a wrinkle. Its been pulled but don't know the quality of the work because the guy I trusted at the bodyshop
left just before I got it back.
I am not a chassis expert but I have a bit of an idea as to whats going on all around it.
I interviewed one person today and will interview one tomorrow about replacing the rail and the core support and inner fender.

This is where I start before getting into anything else. The car has immense sentimental value so finding another is not an option.

Advice
Tips
Experiences, please let me know.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Factory workshop manual most likely has frame dimensions.
If it drives decent and body panels line up,a trip to an alignment shop would be next.

 

[toolmanmike]

A good body shop with a knowledgeable frame machine tech is what you need. They may be able to straighten the rail to spec but it may still have the buckle marks in it. Like Tooljunkie said, if it drives good and the body panels line up you are as close as you can go. Have the rail replaced if you want perfection but be prepared. $$$$$$

 

[Garry in AZ]

You can check if the frame has been straightened properly by getting under the car and doing diagonal measurements to see if it's square. Going just by memory here, I think the factory spec was 1/8" over a distance of 8 feet. Having done this measurement about a hundred times while fitting the back half kit in my Valiant, I can tell you it's a much easier job on a four post lift, and with a helper.

 

[Frodee]

Back in the old days nothing was perfect. Your frame rail looks like it was pushed up as far as I can tell does the fender and door gap on that side look even from top to bottom?

 

[kemikal embalance]

A good body shop with a knowledgeable frame machine tech is what you need. They may be able to straighten the rail to spec but it may still have the buckle marks in it. Like Tooljunkie said, if it drives good and the body panels line up you are as close as you can go. Have the rail replaced if you want perfection but be prepared. $$$$$$

Finding a good shop is my problem. Its been pulled and my buddy is gonna come by and help me measure it Sunday. more pics below that were found from someone I interviewed today.

 

[kemikal embalance]

You can check if the frame has been straightened properly by getting under the car and doing diagonal measurements to see if it's square. Going just by memory here, I think the factory spec was 1/8" over a distance of 8 feet. Having done this measurement about a hundred times while fitting the back half kit in my Valiant, I can tell you it's a much easier job on a four post lift, and with a helper.

Gonna do it Sunday and see how much the first shop did. more pics below

 

[kemikal embalance]

Back in the old days nothing was perfect. Your frame rail looks like it was pushed up as far as I can tell does the fender and door gap on that side look even from top to bottom?

I don't have the new fender and hood yet. thats gonna be on the first thing to buy list. more pics below.

 

[kemikal embalance]

So I interviewed another dude today about working on the frame. He spotted a ripple in the pass floorboard as well as a spot on the firewall where the frame may have tagged it. He says that its possible to save the frame rail....maybe depends on the measurements. He may be able to source a few parts vs getting them new. he's looking 3-3500 in labor to square it up, replace the rail if needed, reinstall and align all the damaged body panels once I get all the stuff together.

Gonna see if another guy I talked to last week will come out and see it before I start collecting parts and tow it all around socal. Never hurts to ask.

Far as door gaps, the passenger side looks good and the driver side still has the damn door sag a bit that it always did. Seems as normal as it once was but the gaps appear to be a bit off.

and yes...I have a pink phone case. always lost it and it never has the ringer on. so my wife thought it funny to put a pink case on it.

 

[Bodyperson]

Just cross measuring will not tell the whole story. The length and height can effect a cross measurement. The car is 3 dimensional. If the length is correct and the width from centerline of the car is correct and the height is correct then there is no reason to cross measure. I have used plum bobs and mapped them out on a level concrete floor. Height is determined with the sheet metal.

 

[kemikal embalance]

Just cross measuring will not tell the whole story. The length and height can effect a cross measurement. The car is 3 dimensional. If the length is correct and the width from centerline of the car is correct and the height is correct then there is no reason to cross measure. I have used plum bobs and mapped them out on a level concrete floor. Height is determined with the sheet metal.

My buddy is gonna help me with that redneck construction site lawn dart thingy Bob on Sunday. Ill know more then, but its really the first time ever using one for both of us so mistakes may happen. Theres no motor or trans and basically its gutted. any advice ?

 

[Bodyperson]

My buddy is gonna help me with that redneck construction site lawn dart thingy Bob on Sunday. Ill know more then, but its really the first time ever using one for both of us so mistakes may happen. Theres no motor or trans and basically its gutted. any advice ?

Remember you have upper body dimensions also. The Frame can be square and the upper body not square. That would include the A-pillar. (hinge pillar) It is not uncommon for an A-pillar to move rearward in a collision.
You really need some frame dimensions. Unless you can establish a center-line You will need a width measurement data and correct length and then cross-measure. If everything is level, you can get fairly close height measurement from the floor. Like other people have said. If the sheetmetal fits and it will wheels align you got it made. Buckles can influence structural integrity. Yours doesnt look that bad.

 

[Pascamp]

Research tram, centerline, and datum. If you're pretty good with math and geometry, you'll be able to educate yourself a bit. Even if it's not something you are looking to do yourself, you'll have a better idea of what's going on and what needs to be done.

 

[Bodyperson]

http://www.chiefautomotive.com/manuals/accessories/UGMS Users Manual.pdf

 

[RustyRatRod]

You have to know WHERE to cross measure FROM. The car has dedicated holes in the bottom of the frame rails for measuring purposes. A good body manual will give you the locations. Measurements are taken with the transom tips on whichever side of the hole the manual tells you. Once measured, you can figure out what your next move will be.

 

[Bodyperson]

Here is a good video of what it is like to be a "Big Dog" in the collision repair industry. If you ask me... that car should have been considered a structural loss. Insurance companies don't see it that way. It's all about $$$ to them. I would have used an impact socket though. lol

 

[Frodee]

Here is a good video of what it is like to be a "Big Dog" in the collision repair industry. If you ask me... that car should have been considered a structural loss. Insurance companies don't see it that way. It's all about $$$ to them. I would have used an impact socket though. lol

I had to stop watching the video the guy is full of **** how could you be welding next to an exposed dash without covering it up.
Old car frames are the same from one side to the other so a tape measure or tram gauge works good but new cars are different.
You bet Bodyperson throw the car away and next time use an impact socket. and that clean of a shop! Really not in my world.

 

[Bodyperson]

I had to stop watching the video the guy is full of **** how could you be welding next to an exposed dash without covering it up.
Old car frames are the same from one side to the other so a tape measure or tram gauge works good but new cars are different.
You bet Bodyperson throw the car away and next time use an impact socket. and that clean of a shop! Really not in my world.

I have to agree Fred. Definitely a promotional video but did show some interesting repair techniques.

 

[kemikal embalance]

Remember you have upper body dimensions also. The Frame can be square and the upper body not square. That would include the A-pillar. (hinge pillar) It is not uncommon for an A-pillar to move rearward in a collision.
You really need some frame dimensions. Unless you can establish a center-line You will need a width measurement data and correct length and then cross-measure. If everything is level, you can get fairly close height measurement from the floor. Like other people have said. If the sheetmetal fits and it will wheels align you got it made. Buckles can influence structural integrity. Yours doesnt look that bad.

Think come mid next week ill start the hunt on parts. Gonna see what happens on Sunday and hopefully the other guy will come up to see it. Regardless, I need them anyway. Roof and Apilars are perfect. sides a small dent on my side from a bad run in with a cop...

 

[kemikal embalance]

Here is a good video of what it is like to be a "Big Dog" in the collision repair industry. If you ask me... that car should have been considered a structural loss. Insurance companies don't see it that way. It's all about $$$ to them. I would have used an impact socket though. lol

thanks for that. I now hate all my tools and my shop is a shithole from a third world country compared to that. I'm depressed and unmotivated now

 

[Bodyperson]

thanks for that. I now hate all my tools and my shop is a shithole from a third world country compared to that. I'm depressed and unmotivated now

Comparing yourself to anything only creates bitterness . You do with what you have. DO IT!!!!
.

 

[BigBlockMopar]

I think the ripples you are seeing in the top pics are just the result of the factory stamping process in creating a large 'U'-shape.
If those indeed would be collision ripples, why is (appears) the top 'plate' of the frame still straight?

 

[kemikal embalance]

I think the ripples you are seeing in the top pics are just the result of the factory stamping process in creating a large 'U'-shape.
If those indeed would be collision ripples, why is (appears) the top 'plate' of the frame still straight?

They're definitely from the collision. Not present on the other side and they use to be wrinkles before it was pulled. I do know what you are saying though.

 

[TrailBeast]

My buddy is gonna help me with that redneck construction site lawn dart thingy Bob on Sunday. Ill know more then, but its really the first time ever using one for both of us so mistakes may happen. Theres no motor or trans and basically its gutted. any advice ?

Something else to keep in mind is that the straightened structure will never be as strong once it's been bent.
It will flex in that same area easier from now on.
That car may be a candidate for some front end stiffening from the firewall, across the shock tower and down to the frame rail.

Maybe something like this, but it can also de done behind the inner fender in the wheel well where you can't see it.

 

[Frodee]

They're definitely from the collision. Not present on the other side and they use to be wrinkles before it was pulled. I do know what you are saying though.

Hey Kemikal embalance I might have an idea for checking your frame. I been a body man all my life but haven't straightened a frame in years so still old school. This is rough but I hope you get the idea. Not good at drawing but if you make 3 of these and attach them to your frame and make sure there even lengths on both sides of the chain. Your frame has holes in the same place on both frame rails so attach one in the rear of the frame, one in the center and one in the front.