Help alleviate my anxiety - engine was noisy on startup

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jcmeyer5

jcmeyer5

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Background - 1969 340 0.040 over, Purple stick with hydraulic lifters. On initial break-in (replaced 2 lifters because I dropped them), the engine ran quiet and well. 75-80 PSI oil pressure on a high volume, high pressure pump during break-in. 5 quarts oil with 1 pint zinc additive. Changed the oil, cut open the filter. No metal anywhere. Everything looks clean.

Fast forward to yesterday. The engine hasnt been run since break-in. I did change the oil (4 quarts with 1 pint zinc additive). Turned the engine over without starting to prime. Then started. We had a lot of valve train noise that largely went away in seconds (guessing not enough priming). However, there remained a very loud "clack" on the driver side. Pulled the driver valve cover to check valve train and watch it run. Had oil to the rockers, but not consistently.

We looked around for a reason. There was a not insignificant oil leak at the pressure switch. Sealed that up (I think we didnt tighten it the first time around). Also checked the oil level on the (original) dipstick. It was at the "add" line, so I dumped the remaining quart from the 5 quart jug into the engine. Fired it back up, and the loud clacking got softer until it was gone. I had consistent oil coming from the rockers. The only other thing I did was back off the timing, but I dont think that had anything to do with it.

**Unrelated, at idle (after fixing the two issues above), there is plenty of oil coming out of the rockers to get to the rocker and valve tips. Oil holes are in the top of the rockers. The inside of the valve covers were nearly dry. I dont think the oil hole on top shoots oil everywhere as some have suggested. Back on topic**

So now everything sounds and feels good. Can I assume it was a small lack of oil pressure or volume? I didnt run it long enough to get anything hot, so I think I am okay? I should probably watch the oil and filter for metal?
 
Ok, never EVER “prime” an engine like that again. You don’t do that even if it has roller lifters. I’ve seen many roller cams killed because guys were using the starter button as a priming system.

You may have gotten lucky and not hurt anything. Probably so.

Lifters can be noisy on start up, but as long as it goes away pretty quickly, like when the gauge is up to full pressure then that you just have to live with.
 
should be good , my 340 would make a bit of lifter noise on startup once in a while , but it always went away after running for 2-3 minutes
What oil you usin
 
Sounds like the lifters just needed some time to pump up. Might do it a few times until all the air is expelled from them. Also its normal for the lifters to clank a few seconds if the engine sits for a while.
 
Dont lose sleep. all lifters lose their prime in 10 seconds or less per Johnson lifter white papers. Thats what hydros do, they lose their prime at shutdown under a cam lobe and then open for oil pressure once they get on the heal of a lobe. It takes a few seconds for oil pressure to build and fill the waiting lifters and take up the slack built into hydraulic lifters. Once the oil pressure has allowed the lifter to fill and take up the lash, the lifter has now become a solid lifter and is quiet. A ticking lifter after 30 seconds is something to investigate, most likely a dirty check ball seat.
 
That's why I like solid cams. I like to hear a little valve train noise, and know it's normal! :lol:
 
yellow rose said:
Ok, never EVER “prime” an engine like that again. You don’t do that even if it has roller lifters. I’ve seen many roller cams killed because guys were using the starter button as a priming system.

You may have gotten lucky and not hurt anything. Probably so.

Lifters can be noisy on start up, but as long as it goes away pretty quickly, like when the gauge is up to full pressure then that you just have to live with.
Click to expand...
Ok I'll take the hook
Why no "starter priming" ?
What issues can it cause?
 
512Stroker said:
Ok I'll take the hook
Why no "starter priming" ?
What issues can it cause?
Click to expand...
Is this a trick question ?
I'm pretty sure the op used the starter after break'in.
and I guess some on the forum prime their engine each and every time they start it. lol :lol:
when I was younger , I never primed my engines, just lubed her up good and got quick fire up. Not one flat cam
 
OP said he backed off the timing and the clack went away.
That unloads the piston/rod a little,
Hope it's not a piston skirt scuff or rod bearing
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
OP said he backed off the timing and the clack went away.
That unloads the piston/rod a little,
Hope it's not a piston skirt scuff or rod bearing
Click to expand...

He's gonna find out. That's for sure.
 
512Stroker said:
Ok I'll take the hook
Why no "starter priming" ?
What issues can it cause?
Click to expand...

When cranking an engine to build oil pressure the lifters rotate very slow. There is no lube being thrown onto the cam as it slowly turns.

It’s better to get the engine up and running than to crank on it to build pressure.

I’m talking about doing this on regular start up. It should never be done. Even worse is cranking the engine to build oil pressure on start up. Both are parts killers.

Roller lifters are similar. Cranking to build oil pressure with a roller is also a parts killer.

The wheels at low speeds like cranking don’t roll but skid on the lobe as lash is taken up then they start to roll. You flat spot the needles and the lifter fails.

Slow idle speeds are almost as bad for both types of liters. Very little oil being thrown off the rods and the slow rotation of the flat lifter and the skidding of the roller at low RPM causes lifter death by a 1000 cuts.
 
Those with a pre- oiling system do it. Those without start the engine and drive.
 
So I’ve started it up several times in the last day... moving it in and out of the garage to sand. No odd sounds or issues. Thanks for the talk!
 
yellow rose said:
When cranking an engine to build oil pressure the lifters rotate very slow. There is no lube being thrown onto the cam as it slowly turns.

It’s better to get the engine up and running than to crank on it to build pressure.

I’m talking about doing this on regular start up. It should never be done. Even worse is cranking the engine to build oil pressure on start up. Both are parts killers.

Roller lifters are similar. Cranking to build oil pressure with a roller is also a parts killer.

The wheels at low speeds like cranking don’t roll but skid on the lobe as lash is taken up then they start to roll. You flat spot the needles and the lifter fails.

Slow idle speeds are almost as bad for both types of liters. Very little oil being thrown off the rods and the slow rotation of the flat lifter and the skidding of the roller at low RPM causes lifter death by a 1000 cuts.
Click to expand...
Well IDK
Your reasoning is sound.
I have been starter prelubing a 340 with bull **** retro fit Comp hydraulic rollers for 3 years and I have had zero issues.
Close to 4k miles and many many starts hot and cold.
I always said this ***** was a unicorn.
 
I bet the factories didn't prime jack. They just busted um off and drive um off the assembly line.
 
With today's fuel, we all use our starter to prime......our fuel bowls. There can be several seconds of slow rotating with little oil splashing around. Unless you fill the bowl or dump fuel in your carb every time, your doing virtually the same thing........just did it to my Coronet a few nights back. Damn it was nice to hear it again!
 
512Stroker said:
Well IDK
Your reasoning is sound.
I have been starter prelubing a 340 with bull **** retro fit Comp hydraulic rollers for 3 years and I have had zero issues.
Close to 4k miles and many many starts hot and cold.
I always said this ***** was a unicorn.
Click to expand...


Call some lifter manufactures or call some cam companies and ask them how many failures they see a year from building oil pressure cranking on them. You can also call LAT, Driven or Torco and ask them about it.

I have no doubt you are doing it. Sometimes it doesn’t matter with a HR and moderate spring loads.

But a SFT or a solid roller with even normal spring loads for street driving (which is now 280 on the seat minimum) will certainly be less likely to survive much of that.
 
I know my car sounds really cool at 800 or 900 RPMs at idle but I run it at 1100 or 1200 because it's obviously not comfortable there at 800...
 
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