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Bad Sport

Bad Sport

HALF A BUBBLE OFF
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I'm getting ready to do somewhat of a budget build 360 until I can save the scratch for a stroker motor. With that said I need some suggestions from the more learned when it comes to engine assembly on what parts combo to buy.

Engine is a 1977 360 long block untouched.

My goal for the engine is:

1. Obviously get as much out of it as I can on a budget.

2. Reliability and possible resale at some point.


Here is what I need:

1. Complete gasket set.

2. Main bearings (here is where I need some advice) what to look for in regards to ordering the correct ones. (do I need to measure first etc)

3. Pistons/rings to up compression to around 9.5/1 that will work with the stock rods. ( I will be running stock bore with a quick ball hone, cylinders are in decent shape with some crosshatching still visible)

4. Cam suggestions, I have some idea but would like to hear some more knowledgeable recommendations. Would like as much lift as possible within reason/necessary. (will be running MP iron adjustable rockers with banana groove shafts)

5. Correct oil pan and oil pump (I'm thinking Melling high volume pump, need to know correct pick up etc)

6. Dampner and flexplate to mate to a 904.

7. Any other suggestions.


Here is what I have:

Adjustable ductile iron rockers w/banana groove shafts.
Weiand 8007 Action Plus intake.
Summit 600 CFM street/strip carb (subject to change).
Mopar dizzy locked in at 18* mechanical.
Cloyes true double roller timing set.
90* oil filter adapter.


Sorry for the long post but I wanted to provide as much info as possible so you guys don't need to get the crowbar out. lol

This will be going in my 74 Dart Sport, 904 trans with 3.55 rear gears.

Converter will be ordered specifically for the combo when completed.
 
If motor in casr is still good why not save a little more to get a stroker motor rather than build an engine to be replaced by another?
 
Because I have an 80,000 plus mile 318 in there now and I want some more grunt, something a little fresher. I'm looking for another car to put the teen in for the wife, after I go through it of course.

If/when I do the stroker I'll more than likely have Mike at MRL build it for me. Just don't have the scratch right now, all I have is the itch, lol.
 
#2 yes you have to measure the journals of the crank for the correct bearings.

One of the best things I bought was a good 6" caliper, I bought a decent one Starett it runs like $100 bucks but I use it all the time.

#3 is going to cost money, most of the time you will have to re-balance the lower end.

#5 I am not a fan of HV oil pumps unless it has a deeper sump pan.
 
sireland67 said:
#2 yes you have to measure the journals of the crank for the correct bearings.

One of the best things I bought was a good 6" caliper, I bought a decent one Starett it runs like $100 bucks but I use it all the time.

I have the tools for measuring, thanks.

#3 is going to cost money, most of the time you will have to re-balance the lower end.

OK, so even though a 360 is externally balanced you still have to balance the rotating assembly??

#5 I am not a fan of HV oil pumps unless it has a deeper sump pan.

It probably will have a deeper pan.
Click to expand...
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So, you want a 360 for NOW but a stroker for later, right? He's what I would do. Get a set of reman 302 heads with 1.88 and 1.6 valves in them. Rering the stock short block. Not sure you'll get 9.5:1 but it will be a good compression bump. The factory cast pistons are plenty strong. No need to waste money on new pistons when you don't need them. Remember too, MoPar blocks are higher in nickle content than their brand X counterparts, so the bore is probably not bad. Replace the stock rod bolts and have the stock rods resized. Once again, money saved, because no need for a rebalance using all the stock stuff that was already there. One of the little VooDoo grinds would be good......or maybe even Comps 275DEH. THAT's a really nice cam that often gets overlooked. The intake is a great choice. I think you can stand a bigger carburetor, but try what you have.

I really think you'll come out better puttin the money in the heads. You are already buying pistons for your stroker. Why buy 2 sets? Wouldn't you be getting your present heads reworked? If you go that route, you'll be reworking heads AND buying pistons. Going with the reman 302s saves you money. Think about it.
 
I agree with trying to find a way not to buy new pistons. Only reason it seems you are buying them is to up the compression. Are you going to go $300-400 faster with new pistons and a balence job?

New pistons and old bore just doesn't jive to me. But if you've got to buy heads that are the same cost as your pistons... Best would be if you could buy and use the heads now that you want to use with your stroker.
 
This is why I asked, lol. Putting new/different heads on I hadn't thought about. Does make sense. I was gonna rework the heads that were on it.

I just want to build something that is budget friendly and reliable AND get as much grunt for my money as I can.

The stroker is on the wish list, just can't cover that kind of expense right now.
 
RustyRatRod said:
He's what I would do. Get a set of reman 302 heads with 1.88 and 1.6 valves in them. Rering the stock short block. Not sure you'll get 9.5:1 but it will be a good compression bump.

Any idea what I might end up with?


Replace the stock rod bolts and have the stock rods resized.

Are you talking about where they attach to the crank?
Click to expand...
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I have no idea as to compression without specifics. It will be a good bit more than it was. Yes. The big end is what gets resized. Good rod bolt and resized rods will be great for the longevity of the engine and a great selling point as well.
 
I would not use 318 close chamber small port heads on a 360 even with the larger valves...

I have been driving a 360 with HV oil pump with stock pan in 73 Duster since 2004........


JMO....
 
RustyRatRod said:
So, you want a 360 for NOW but a stroker for later, right? He's what I would do. Get a set of reman 302 heads with 1.88 and 1.6 valves in them. Rering the stock short block. Not sure you'll get 9.5:1 but it will be a good compression bump. The factory cast pistons are plenty strong. No need to waste money on new pistons when you don't need them. Remember too, MoPar blocks are higher in nickle content than their brand X counterparts, so the bore is probably not bad. Replace the stock rod bolts and have the stock rods resized. Once again, money saved, because no need for a rebalance using all the stock stuff that was already there. One of the little VooDoo grinds would be good......or maybe even Comps 275DEH. THAT's a really nice cam that often gets overlooked. The intake is a great choice. I think you can stand a bigger carburetor, but try what you have.

I really think you'll come out better puttin the money in the heads. You are already buying pistons for your stroker. Why buy 2 sets? Wouldn't you be getting your present heads reworked? If you go that route, you'll be reworking heads AND buying pistons. Going with the reman 302s saves you money. Think about it.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything here except I would recommend 2.02 valves for increased flow and a slight compression bump. (approx -3.5cc)

Also, does anyone know what the options are on off-the-shelf thin head gaskets?
 
My kind of build. Rusty nailed it dead on. Not a big fan of HV pumps,and stock pans,if beating on it often. Sump runs out about 64,6500 .( How I got my car.) Like the 308 head /275 DEH combo.. The lift isn't psycho on it. Should work well with the parts you have. PLEASE resize the rods,good bolts. This could be a later selling point as well.
 
I have a set of arp rod bolts in the pack yet 50+ride I think I have 8 used \+.020 or .030 360 pistons cross hatch the holes and thro new rings on yours, your going to bore it later anyways, I have a box of rods 8 were like new, pistons knocked off and peind and magged .you might just get away with new bearings and rings, or I could sell you a crank that needs polished , might be all you need your better off to use your pistons with new rings, in same whole they were in. that was unless slapped outa round to bad
// call clegg or titan motors and buy a master rebuild kit for 500.00 for now
 
Mr. Gasket 1121's. .028 crush and cheaper than the .039's by about half.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-1121g

The Weiand 8007 is spot on for that engine. I think you could see a bit more from a 650 carb. A 1970 non HP 440 AVS (4966S) would do well on that engine, without breaking the bank.

Shop around Summit for a cam that has a more modern ramp rate at something right around .500" lift and 230 duration, if you keep those flattops and run a 302 head. I personally think there are better things to be had, like some Engine Quest heads with 1.6 rockers, but that may be money you don't want to spend ATM.

The nice thing about setting up a good set of closed chamber heads is that you could see use out of in the future, with the longer bottom end, when you did do it.
 
Keep it coming guys. The engine I have now won't be the one I stroke. I want this to be a good reliable engine with some bottom to mid-range grunt.

I am looking to run somewhere around a .500 lift so the 302's might not cut it with the smaller valves. Thinner head gasket has already been thought about. I would really like to up the compression as much as possible while maintaining a realistic budget. I plan on running this engine for a couple of years anyway.

The 600 carb will , more than likely, be shelved and replaced with a 750cfm.
 
The 1.88 and 1.6 valves will be all you'll ever need.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The 1.88 and 1.6 valves will be all you'll ever need.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that for a higher lift a little larger valve was needed. But then again, that's why I'm askin'. I like the thought of the 302's with a thinner gasket and keep the pistons I have.
 
Summit does the old Crane 228@ .050 ,110 lobe center grind in a house brand. A bit rumpety,a good safe cam. Cheap,and effective.Please hunt for it.
 
Agreed. I also know that a stock set of 302 heads on stock spring retainers clear a factory type valve stem seal at .500 actual valve lift, so if you ran a .500" advertised lift, you will still fall short on angle and clear just fine on that end.

The only way to bring compression up significantly in that late truck piston 360 is to do it with heads, without tearing the low end apart to replace the pistons. You could do that, but to do it right, you'd have about $450 in pistons and rings. Maybe a tad less.

Have you thought about just running some magnums?
 
Bad Sport said:
I was under the impression that for a higher lift a little larger valve was needed. But then again, that's why I'm askin'. I like the thought of the 302's with a thinner gasket and keep the pistons I have.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It's actually better to run the smallest valve you can, that the head will flow well with on your engine, because it drops shrouding down a bit.

If you are running into restrictions from runner volume/ size against valve size, sure, bring the valve seats/ valves open a bit to help out, but if you can get the flow numbers you want out of a smaller valve, you are winning.
 
Can you be a little more specific on resizing the rods. The only engines I have ever done were torn down, cleaned, honed and reassembled. I've not got into as much detail as I would like to on this one. I've never had the time or resources to do so while raising kids and all.

I'm sure the shop I will be using here will know, just trying to edjumacate myself, lol.
 
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