Help with Torqueflite 904

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Mitsiman

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I know its not a chrysler but this particular forum has been the most helpful so far.

I am running a Mitsubishi Galant with a proposed TorqueFlite 904 "Baby" model to suit my mitsubishi turbocharged engine. This is the only transmission other than a Ford C4 that I can physically fit into the vehicle. I don't want to go C4, preferring to stay with the Mitsubishi / Chrysler theme on my vehicle which I have to date.

Now the tech article on the failures of the Torqueflite answered 90% of my questions about the reliability of the unit which has given me hope again.

What I woudl like to know now, is about availability of stuff for my model transmission being the Torquflite 904 "Baby" model which came out in approximatly a 1978 - 1983 Mitsubishi Scorpion model vehicle 4cyl rear wheel drive.

I beleive this is identical in design to the normal 904 unit, but is physically smaller in most of the areas

any help would be greatly appreciated - as our drag galant is ready to run in the 10's once we finalise this.

Thank you in advance.

David Thomas
 
Hi,
I'm not sure if this helps. I put a 318 in a 80 Plymouth Sapporo and used a 904.
Everything from the tranny mount, driveshaft and even the stock shifter
bolted on like stock. Even the speedo gear worked.

Makes me wonder if they are the same but the bolt pattern. I was told it was a 904 behind the 4 cyl. but I never really thought about it, I just yanked it out.
I would like to hear what you find out though.

Danny
 
Hallaluj or how ever its spelt.

The Sapparo is what we call a Scopion in Australia so thats great news.

Now are you saying you put the 904 and a 318 into the vehicle or that it had a factory 4cyl 904 in the vehicle to start with and that the 318 all bolted straight up to it.

The question I still need to know then - is are there performance parts out there for this 4cyl model 904? What normal 904 parts will go across to this.
 
I haven't ever seen a Sapporo so I can't say for sure but if a regular 904 bolted up and the trans mount and shifter and driveshaft all bolted right up it sure makes me think they are the same 904 except maybe they changed the bellhousing to mate up to the 4 cyl.

Sounds like Dan used a 904 from a different vehicle too. Like the one he got the 318 from.

Now to answer your last question. "Is ther perf. parts avail". Good question?? There are for V8 904's and I bet the internals are the same other than they might have made some valve body programming chages for the 4 cyl. but since I don't have one to look at I can't say for sure. Is there any way you can post pictures of it? Maybe I can tell more then.
 
I know for a fact that the bell housing is definitly smaller and I am fairly certain that the valve body gear and input shaft is smaller as well. Its like a miniature version of a full size 904 hence the term "Baby" model.

I will try and take some photos as well.
 
I could see the bell housing being smaller due to it bolting to a 4 cyl. but if it's a 904 I'd think the valve body would be the same. Since Dan said he bolted up his 904 right too the original shifter sure sounds like they are the same.

The 904 is a baby compared to the 727. Are you sure your not comparing it to the 727 torqueflite? It's a much larger torqueflite with a bigger input shaft and case.

Alot of people mistakenly call the 904 a baby 727 or call them all 904's and just big and baby 904's when In reality they're small version is a 904 and the big trans is a 727.
 
No this model 904 is called specifically a 904 "Baby" model due to the fact the whole box is approx 75% as large as a normal torque flight. Hence why I have been trying to ascertain components for it. I have found another 2nd hand box and a couple of firms in Australia who have used them before, but when I go hard core with the box with trans brakes etc, I need to find more information on who does this stuff and side effects etc.
 
Hi,

I pulled the 4 cyl. and trans out and put a 318 and 904 in. Sorry
I never seen it apart. A friend of mine told me that the tranny I
pulled was an 904 so I could use the stock shifter. As I said though,
I put the tranny mount on the V8 904 and bolted it in. I had to make
the engine mounts, but the drive shaft fit like stock.

I don't remember which shift lever I used though. I did use the
Sapporo stock shifter for a year. I'll call my friend and check with
him later this week to see what he knows about them.

fishy68
You might remember the baby Challenger of them years. The Arrow
was more popular back then, but was a different body style.
Danny
 
The best I can find at this time is in the Alto products corp. catalog.
the 2005 version on page 81 has the baby 904 listed with the kits.
The friction module and the steel module has the same numbers.

Danny
 
Hi,

Not sure if I can post a whole link. Some sites do not like that.
The best I can say at this time is it had altousa on it. I guess
I need to find the rules on this, It should be ok as were all here
to help or get help.

Danny
 
Dan yes I do remember the Baby Challenger and Arrow back then but unfortunatley I never got to work on one so I can't say I ever saw what was used in them.

Mitsiman I really believe by your description that the 904 your working on is the same 904 as here in the states and is also basically the same 904 that is used behind the 6 and 8 cyl models. There are 2 Torqueflites a 727 (the big one) and a 904 (the little one which is about 75% the size of the bigger 727).
If they made another 904 that was used in the Sapporo that was smaller first off they would have given it another designation number and not still called it a 904. Another thing if it was 75% smaller the driveshaft and linkages would not have bolted right up for Dan. Also Dan said the friction and steel modules carry the same part numbers so that says they have to be the same physical size. Thus your 4cyl. 904 is basically the same as a 6 cyl. or v8 904. internally.

I bet your calling it a "Baby 904" is nothing more than a slang term used by locals. Sure don't sound like something a factory would designate.

Dan it's ok to post links. We do it all the time.
 
fishy68,

Hey thanks for the info. on the posting links. It took a extra 5 min.
to reply as I keep going back and looking for that rule.

In the pdf. file I have it's strange as they do call for a baby 904
on page 181. In the Plymouth section under Sapporo they have
TF6/904 page 180.

They could have a smaller input shaft on the outside. I can see
that as the other end could be normal 904.

Danny
 
No problem Dan.

Well I could be wrong about them actually calling one a baby 904. It would'nt be the first time I was wrong. It's just that I've been rebuilding torqueflites for over 20 yrs. and never ran accross one but then again I've mostly dealt with V8 models. I see so many times where guys call transmissions incorrect names that I sometimes assume that is the case too quickly.

What your describing Dan sounds like they used a smaller input shaft and torque converter setup to accomodate the smaller 4 cyl. engine. Nevertheless if the clutchpack and steelpack is the same part number at least they can be upgraded to higher grade parts.

The smaller diameter input shaft is a bad deal though. Mitsuman maybe you can switch to the regular 904 input shaft and gain strength there but of course you'll have to do something with the converter also. Probably have to have a custom one built.
 
Yes we have listings on the standard rebuild kits and they do list the TF904 "Baby" as a specific model seperate to the normal TF904 units.

You are correct my research shows a different input shaft and possibly different valve body but clutches so far appear to be the same which can only be good news.

Here are some links I found which may help with the information I have found to date

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/torqueflite.html

The above link I found particularly interesting as it showed a lot of general info on the units including some of there weaknesses, although not as detailed as the link I found in this forum.
 
Yes I have read the article on Allpar in the past. Just read it again to refresh my memory but didn't see anything about a "Baby 904". I wish I could have got the page on Alto USA Dan mentioned to load up but I'm on dial up so it wouldn't. I would have liked to seen what differences they showed.

I still bet the case is the same and the only difference is the input shaft, torque converter, and maybe front pump since the input shaft is different, and valve body programming. Those items should be easily interchangeable to regular 904 parts. I've put together many torqueflites in the past that were a hodgepodge of parts from several different years and every one worked correctly and lasted long. It's just a matter of the right combinations.
 
fishy68,

wow I feel for you on dial up. You would be sad after going
through that and seeing a standard 904.

Mitsiman,

I found it strange that in the vehicle index under Mitsubishi
they have A904 for the Sapporo 74-81. Not baby 904.

Also we have not talked about the pan, is it the same as a 904?
I did the Sapporo over ten years ago and never really looked at it.

Danny
 
I just pulled up a parts catalogue from an Australian Automatic Transmissions supplier, and they are listing the following

Valient / Chrysler 6 & 8 cyl - T/Flite 6 (904) & 8 (727).
Sigma Scorpion (Sapparo) T/Flite 6 904 Baby.

They list a completely different filter service kit and they are running a different pan gasket to each other which confirms there variations to each other.

I am trying now to get some in depth part number comparisons between the two model 904 boxes to exactly see which parts are different and which are the same. I will let everyone know.

I also received and email from a couple of USA auto transmission firms who have confirmed that the 904 does have a "Baby" model and that there is a large degree of interchangeability between the two.
 
Your doing pretty good as the net does not have much.
Curiosity got me and there's not much.

The friction module and the steel module has the same numbers.
The pics. of the filters looked close, but had different #'s and
that's why I asked about the pan.

I wonder why they called it baby 904 and not something else?
I also wonder if there's a kit to attach a 904?

Danny
 
I am looking at parts breakdown list now and it appears the baby torqueflite pan gasket, extension housing seal and filter are different to normal torque flights but everything else is identical. Only thing left to research is the oil pump / input shaft and valve body assembly although same shift kit etc goes across

I will keep everyone up to date on it.
 
Mitsiman said:
I am looking at parts breakdown list now and it appears the baby torqueflite pan gasket, extension housing seal and filter are different to normal torque flights but everything else is identical. Only thing left to research is the oil pump / input shaft and valve body assembly although same shift kit etc goes across

I will keep everyone up to date on it.
Click to expand...


the diferent extension is that the rear extensionhousing your thinking about?
could it maybee be something alitle backwars with it since i see that your from australia and that it may bee diferent to make the speedocable exit it at the righthand side insted of left to make speedometer hookup easier? this is just thougts that crossed my mind since you never know with mopars there is alot oddbal stuff when it comes to mopar
 
The case is a little smaller so the pan and gasket, while close are a little smaller. The extension housing is different as I believe is the output shaft to fit the Mitsu slip yoke. The input shaft and reaction shaft may also be different but I'm not sure. I don't know if the valvebody can be interchanged or not. It's been a long time since I did any work on those so my memory is kind of scetchy.
 
Well we have confirmd now 90% of everything.

The input shaft and oil pump are smaller and specific to the box (Due to the smaller bell housing etc and of course torque converter).

Pan gasket is different and so is the filter, although we have been advised that the normal 904 upgraded filter can be adapted to the vehicle.

Valve body is either identical it appears to the normal 904, or the normal upgraded valve body components for the 904 goes across to it. We have a shift kit which appears to suit both 904 models.

Clutchs, scrags, bands are all identical between both models.

Output shaft seal is different due to as people said, Mitsubishi adapting to the Mitsubishi yoke etc on the Uni joint.

We are going to build a mild box first without trans brake (Still have to sort that out yet) with modified valve body not sure if going to retain the automatic drive setup or go full manuel yet, 2500 rpm torque converter. Still researching input shaft / oil pump setups.

Once I finalise the rest of this information I will again let people know.
 
Output shaft seal is different due to as people said, Mitsubishi adapting
to the Mitsubishi yoke etc on the Uni joint.

I'm not sure if that is the reason for it being different. Remember
I used their drive shaft and yoke in mine. Now I don't remember if
it was the flush type seal or the one that extends out to protect the
sealing surface.

The hook-up at the rearend was different.
Danny
 
Mitsiman,

This is the car.

80 Sapporo2 .jpg
 
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