High pressure return line power steering, 1960 Valiant. Advice please.

[Gadabout]

Not sure if I posted this inquiry correctly, sorry if it is a double post. The pump is intact, but there is a steady drip from the high pressure return line. Does anyone have any experience with this and how to fix? There are a number of universal kits online, but not sure if any would fit.

 

[toolmanmike]

Not sure if I posted this inquiry correctly, sorry if it is a double post. The pump is intact, but there is a steady drip from the high pressure return line. Does anyone have any experience with this and how to fix? There are a number of universal kits online, but not sure if any would fit.

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Return lines aren't high pressure. I would clean it all off and see exactly where it's leaking at.

 

[mbaird]

Probably old and deteriorating.
Are there threaded fittings on the old ones or just nipples and hose clamps ? Like Toolman said returns are not high pressure.

 

[mobileparts]

Should be 3 / 8 " Power Steering Return Hose @ $ 2.00 a foot or so.... 30 " piece === $ 5.00..ish...

 

[Gadabout]

Many thanks; I wasn't sure of the diameter. The fittings have a leak where it comes off the master cylinder (why is it connected there??? Manual drum brakes). The mechanic thinks a few turns of Teflon tape might seal the fittings.

 

[junkyardhero]

The fittings have a leak where it comes off the master cylinder (why is it connected there??? Manual drum brakes). The mechanic thinks a few turns of Teflon tape might seal the fittings.

wtf?

something ain't right there...

you got some more pics?

 

[413]

It looks like your brake light switch is wet. Is this dripping down onto the steering coupler?

Do you have to add brake fluid?

You PS hoses don't look like they are leaking.

 

[Gadabout]

wtf?

something ain't right there...

you got some more pics?

Thank you very much for the input. The middle picture, with that sleeve that looks grafted on with hose clamps, appears to be a major problem. It leads to a fitting that somehow screws into the brake master cylinder- which confuses me to no end. That fitting has a small leak; the thought is to remove it, apply Teflon tape, and reattach it. Certainly the entire hose will have to be removed and the leaks inspected, until then I'm just careful to keep adding power steering fluid. To Mr. "Well Known Member," yes, that is exactly right. The drip is wetting that cyndrilical component, and yes, we find a leak coming down from the recently replaced brake master cylinder, however that is attached- being a mystery to me.

I am careful not to muck around with poorly understood things, and the mechanic is highly experienced and works on old cars. By driving carefully and gently, I've wrung 300K miles out of my old Hyundai Accent with few problems other than age issues. So, while she is my daily driver, I drive like there is an eggshell between my foot and the pedals and do my best to not foul traffic.

Tomorrow, I'm going down to a hose supply and checking out their silicon return tubing, 3/8th inch. I want to thank you all, but when I click the thumbs-up icon, it gives a message "report," and I certainly don't want to be reporting anyone!!!

 

[RustyRatRod]

Do you have a factory service manual for your car? I suggest getting one, as it will get you familiar with your car and the correct terminology to use so you can get the help you need. MyMopar.com does not show one for a 60 Valiant, but there are a few on ebay pretty affordable. One example:

Service Manual

 

[junkyardhero]

Thank you very much for the input. The middle picture, with that sleeve that looks grafted on with hose clamps, appears to be a major problem. It leads to a fitting that somehow screws into the brake master cylinder- which confuses me to no end. That fitting has a small leak; the thought is to remove it, apply Teflon tape, and reattach it. Certainly the entire hose will have to be removed and the leaks inspected, until then I'm just careful to keep adding power steering fluid. To Mr. "Well Known Member," yes, that is exactly right. The drip is wetting that cyndrilical component, and yes, we find a leak coming down from the recently replaced brake master cylinder, however that is attached- being a mystery to me.

I am careful not to muck around with poorly understood things, and the mechanic is highly experienced and works on old cars. By driving carefully and gently, I've wrung 300K miles out of my old Hyundai Accent with few problems other than age issues. So, while she is my daily driver, I drive like there is an eggshell between my foot and the pedals and do my best to not foul traffic.

Tomorrow, I'm going down to a hose supply and checking out their silicon return tubing, 3/8th inch. I want to thank you all, but when I click the thumbs-up icon, it gives a message "report," and I certainly don't want to be reporting anyone!!!

i don't mean this as a dig, but i think that your fundamental misunderstanding of how these components work is going to be a hindrance to our assistance here.

the brake and steering systems are completely independent of each other.

you've got two things going on here:
1- the brake switch on the master cylinder is leaking and is dripping down onto the steering shaft.

2- your power steering lines (and possibly fittings) are leaking. there's clearly a splice/coupler there in the low pressure return line-- that yellow/brass thing-- and whether that's your leak or something else is tough to tell from a pic.

so above, i've labeled the bits. the steering coupler is wet, likely with brake fluid coming out of the master from that switch OR possibly the brake line where that brass coupler goes into the master. this moistness is not from power steering, other wise that hose would be wet and the whole area would be drenched.

so in this one, you've got the steering box with the high pressure & low press/return line. the low press/return goes back to the box, and while it's low pressure, it's not "no pressure" and the lack of hose clamps leads me to believe that the coupler there may be one source of your leaks.

the high pressure line has what appears to be some type of compression coupler. i don't know if that's factory or not, but it merits some investigation. hopefully it's just wet from the other line leaking on it.

further, the box has a seal there at the valve on the bottom side that can be prone to leakage.

clean everything up real well and see if you can ascertain where it might be leaking from.

for the return i'd get some weather head hose and nice clamps, on the pressure side of things i'd hunt down a hydro shop or a big rig joint and have a hose custom made.

you shouldn't need teflon tape or couplers to make all this function correctly.

hth

 

[Vaanth]

Not sure if I posted this inquiry correctly, sorry if it is a double post. The pump is intact, but there is a steady drip from the high pressure return line. Does anyone have any experience with this and how to fix? There are a number of universal kits online, but not sure if any would fit.

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There is no connection from the power steering system to the brake master cylinder as has been noted. It does appear you have a leak at the brake switch on the bottom of the master cylinder, and you may have a leak at the power steering hose(s), but the hoses and the master cylinder are separate items.

The 1960 Valiant with power steering was originally equipped with a Chrysler steering gear like later models, although the inlet and outlet connections appear a bit differently than later 1967-70s units.

The 1960 Valiant was also equipped with a Thomson slipper type power steering pump.

The pump is connected to the steering gear with a high pressure hose with threaded fittings that looks like #480 in the following image:

The low pressure return hose is ~42" of 5/8" power steering rated rubber hose. Something does look amiss with your return hose setup.


Chrysler images from:

Hose and pump images and references from Omega and Four Seasons catalogs.

 

[RustyRatRod]

i don't mean this as a dig, but i think that your fundamental misunderstanding of how these components work is going to be a hindrance to our assistance here.

the brake and steering systems are completely independent of each other.

you've got two things going on here:
1- the brake switch on the master cylinder is leaking and is dripping down onto the steering shaft.

2- your power steering lines (and possibly fittings) are leaking. there's clearly a splice/coupler there in the low pressure return line-- that yellow/brass thing-- and whether that's your leak or something else is tough to tell from a pic.

View attachment 1716362403

so above, i've labeled the bits. the steering coupler is wet, likely with brake fluid coming out of the master from that switch OR possibly the brake line where that brass coupler goes into the master. this moistness is not from power steering, other wise that hose would be wet and the whole area would be drenched.

View attachment 1716362406

so in this one, you've got the steering box with the high pressure & low press/return line. the low press/return goes back to the box, and while it's low pressure, it's not "no pressure" and the lack of hose clamps leads me to believe that the coupler there may be one source of your leaks.

the high pressure line has what appears to be some type of compression coupler. i don't know if that's factory or not, but it merits some investigation. hopefully it's just wet from the other line leaking on it.

further, the box has a seal there at the valve on the bottom side that can be prone to leakage.

clean everything up real well and see if you can ascertain where it might be leaking from.

for the return i'd get some weather head hose and nice clamps, on the pressure side of things i'd hunt down a hydro shop or a big rig joint and have a hose custom made.

you shouldn't need teflon tape or couplers to make all this function correctly.

hth

The high pressure line is a two piece line from the factory.

 

[junkyardhero]

The high pressure line is a two piece line from the factory.

thanks TIL!

 

[RustyRatRod]

thanks TIL!

I think they used that configuration well into the 60s. The correct pressure line for my 64 is a two piece line like that. Whether it's the same part number, I don't know. I gathered parts to put P/S on Vixen and then found I would have to dent the crap out of my headers to make the P/S gear box fit. That ain't happenin. LOL

 

[RustyRatRod]

Here is the high pressure hose for the 64 Valiant. Still appears to be two piece.
Pressure hose

Here is the 1960 Valiant pressure hose. Same part number, so they used that at least from 60 to 64.
Pressure hose

 

[413]

Does your levels of power steering fluid or brake fluid go down? Which one do you have to keep refilling?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Does your levels of power steering fluid or brake fluid go down? Which one do you have to keep refilling?

Just like you to state the common sense obvious. lol

 

[413]

Just like you to state the common sense obvious. lol

Gotta start someplace? 2nd grade level? Thanks

 

[RustyRatRod]

Gotta start someplace? 2nd grade level? Thanks

Yeah kinda like "Is there gas in the tank?" lol

 

[Gadabout]

Thank you all for your most excellent replies. They were going to send the hose out to be remanufactured, but I checked it into the cart just in case. As I told my mechanic, the components of the human body (I am a nurse by trade) are compartively simple and have not changed in 2 million years. What makes us all different, and why you cannot transplant one organ to other body like swapping a transmission, is something like 0.5% of the difference in the DNA between two individuals. It is estimated that 95% of DNA does nothing at all, it is called "junk DNA." Sort of a filler, if nothing else. In point of fact, the human body and a banana share 40% identical DNA. But that 0.5% is really tough.

Now, the diagram of the power steering pump is massively more complex than that of the human heart. If you study the schematic of a human heart, it is a fairly simplistic specialized muscle. It has four combustion chambers and the exact type of high and lower-pressure intake and output hoses you and I have. It has an effortless wiring harness, and the ignition system is fully automatic and there are two which operate perfectly in synchony with each other.

Any given part of an automobile varies from model to model, even month to month if not year to year. It may be a power steering pump, but now the bolt holes or the hoses are different. In other words, it's a nightmare. Add a little rust and it's a meltdown.

Cobbler, stick to your last. My hat is off to you, fellows, who not only know how it works but why it works, when it works, where it works, and all the variables. I appreciate your advice and knowledge extremely.

 

[67Dart273]

Do you have a hydraulic hose house in your area, or at least some sort of parts/ tractor/ etc industrial store that makes them? If the steel ends are OK, there are special fittings that amount to heavy duty all steel compression fittings, so that you can clamp those fittings to your old steel pieces with new hose crimped on.

If not, we, where I once worked, did stuff like cut down a JIC fitting, drilled it to fit the steel cut off tube, and silver brazed the tube to the fitting. EASY!!! And then just make up a hose to fit between.

Normally, the return, which is as mentioned, LOW pressure, is often simply a hose clamp fitting at the pump. Make certain, tho, that there is not an obstruction somewhere that is building pressure.

 

[Gadabout]

Because of this Forum, I located a new pressure return hose from O'Reilley's Auto-parts for a sawbuck. It is installed and fits perfectly. The leak near the brake master cylinder has been repaired. THANK YOU! I could not do it without y'all.

 

[Gadabout]

Down the rabbit hole. Been a few months since I last posted, busy with work, travel, illness, marriage, you know the usual stuff.

Last time I posted, I had a powerful new stereo system installed so I could listen to Chuck Berry et al and blow away those other cars blasting rap and hip hop. (Sorry, I'm not a fan. In the Army barracks a few decades ago, I was forced to listen to it at 4 AM, so it left me with a certain dislike).

This car has become a regular nuisance at one of the few nearby shops that wrench on classic cars. So, where I last left off, I asked the stereo guys, so, will this 65 year old alternator and wiring handle all these amps? Why, sure Mr. Gadabout, surrrrrrre, we do this ALL the time.

Within ten miles the connection caught fire and the underdash wiring was melted, so with smoke billowing into the interior I swerved off the highway and beat the flames out.

I was able to get a negotiated settlement from the Stereo Shop, under the threat of giving them a bad Yelp review, and the entire dash wiring was replaced and a Cordone alternator was installed with a hand made bracket. Unfortunately, the original dual groove pulley was installed backwards, and they used a three prong grapple to wrest it off, causing flange damage that caused a vibration that destroyed the front bearing seal.

Dozens of hours spent combing websites and shops turned up nothing (part #1826056) and even though that pulley was manufactured from 1958 to 1968, there appears none to be found. So hang on to your pulleys. Presently, in addition to a replacement alternator, a GM pulley was found to be a reasonably close match, although we may have to use a smaller drive belt and the bore is 1/1000 too small, so perhaps heating it up before press fitting will do the trick.

In the meantime, the wiper motor was fixed, all the interior and exterior marker lights were fixed with the rewiring. The new alternator could not be wired into the stock ammeter, so a circuit light under the hood was attached to ensure function. I refused to have an under-dash ammeter installed as I am striving to keep the car as close to original as possible.

At some point the master cylinder failed, but an aftermarket job filled the bill. It appears to have a nipple that would lead to a "BRAKE" warning light, but they didn't have those in 1960, but the parking brake is in good order.

So, bottom line, with this last repair hopefully I'll get some drive time out of her. It is a fun, nimble car to drive and gets lots of compliments.