Brian Bearor
Well-Known Member
Replaced the coil and the engine is ready to fire. Happen to touch the coil and it is hot. Didn't crank it much at all. Any thoughts? Thank you.
Hot coil
- Thread starter Brian Bearor
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What ignition type? What coil and ballast resistor are you using?
Brian Bearor
Well-Known Member
Unsure. It is a stock 225 in a valiant signant.
If you want help, you need to be sure. Otherwise this is a Marco Polo game.
Brian Bearor
Well-Known Member
Understood
Did you do something under the hood, etc, and leave the ignition switch turned on? And Had it been running? How much cranking is "not much at all?" AKA 1 second, 10, 59 minutes and 41 seconds?
And what do you have for an ignition system? If breaker points, the coil will draw current with key on, if the points happen to be closed. The Mopar electronic will draw current anytime the key is "on" (in run). MSD does not / should not have DC current through the coil. True HEI or an HEI module does not normally draw current with key in run. I don't know about Mallory or some others, and I don't know about the cheap import "ready to run" ones that use the Auzzie module (Holden?)
And what do you have for an ignition system? If breaker points, the coil will draw current with key on, if the points happen to be closed. The Mopar electronic will draw current anytime the key is "on" (in run). MSD does not / should not have DC current through the coil. True HEI or an HEI module does not normally draw current with key in run. I don't know about Mallory or some others, and I don't know about the cheap import "ready to run" ones that use the Auzzie module (Holden?)
Duralast ignition coils from autozone are great for cold weather . Mount them under the dash for leg warmers.
Brian Bearor
Well-Known Member
Lol. Tracked it down. It was a faulty ignition switch. Thank you to everyone for your help.
I'm going to hide and watch here. Current flows both ways through the ballast resistor. Can be confusing at the switch before resistor or switch is disconnected.
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4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
Fyi with key switch on coil is energized, even when not running.
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
Lol, read Dels reply abv. And who said points anyway?
Because your generalised statement in post #11 is incorrect....
Del is also incorrect because the MSD CD boxes have a capacitor that is charged with DC current, which is then [ the capacitor ] discharged into the coil.
Del is also incorrect because the MSD CD boxes have a capacitor that is charged with DC current, which is then [ the capacitor ] discharged into the coil.
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
Lol, why the hell did you bring MSD up?
My generalized statement is correct. If points are closed the coil is energized...correct?
My generalized statement is correct. If points are closed the coil is energized...correct?
[1] Because a statement was made about MSD in this thread that is incorrect. I did mention that Del made the statement, not you...
[2] Do you have a comprehension problem? Re-read post #11 [ your post ] & the subsequent posts...
[2] Do you have a comprehension problem? Re-read post #11 [ your post ] & the subsequent posts...
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
Has there been any mention by the op of points?
MSD has NOT been brought up by the op lol.
So with key on coil isnt energized?
I seriously think you just love to argue with people, so maybe comprehension or people skills isn't your strong suit.
MSD has NOT been brought up by the op lol.
So with key on coil isnt energized?
I seriously think you just love to argue with people, so maybe comprehension or people skills isn't your strong suit.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I don't see where the type of ign was ever stated. It stock, it could be points or electronic. What is the year of the car?
1...Current through the ballast, using the Mopar ECU DOES flow both ways. During cranking, the "run" voltage is dead from the key. The only starting voltage comes from the brown IGN2 ballast bypass. This feeds battery direct to the coil BUT THE ECU gets power from where? Power flows from the brown, through the ballast and to the ECU, powering the ECU at lowered voltage during cranking. DO NOT ASK ME why they did that
DISCLAIMER. I fully realize that electron flow is actually from neg to pos. But in describing circuits, sometimes it is easier to thing of the supply as the "source" rather than the return. Regardless, current is reversed under some conditions
So far as breaker points, and flowing both ways, ever look at an ignition scope pattern? What are all those squiggly lines? WHY THAT IS AC power, known as "ringing" caused by the exchange of power from the dropping flux in the coil charging the capacitor/ condenser across the the points, and then cycling, the cap then discharges it's stored power back into the coil . Where is the circuit return? You go from ground, up through the coil, to where? THE BALLAST. When that AC cycle is ringing, it MUST have a path back to ground. This is a fairly high voltage event, over 100 volts ON THE PRIMARY. It goes to ground through the low Z path back to the battery, that is where. It ALSO returns to ground, partially, through the radio noise suppression cap (hopefully) connected to the + terminal of the coil. That cap can never charge or discharge very far, because the "run" voltage coming from the ballast holds it at a low DC level. It is a fairly low Z to ground, compared to the quite hi V AC ringing going on.
2....NO MSD DOES NOT see DC power, it receives hi voltage switched pulses from the charged cap. The point here was, that with the key static on, no engine running, there is no power to the coil. NONE.
DISCLAIMER. I fully realize that electron flow is actually from neg to pos. But in describing circuits, sometimes it is easier to thing of the supply as the "source" rather than the return. Regardless, current is reversed under some conditions
So far as breaker points, and flowing both ways, ever look at an ignition scope pattern? What are all those squiggly lines? WHY THAT IS AC power, known as "ringing" caused by the exchange of power from the dropping flux in the coil charging the capacitor/ condenser across the the points, and then cycling, the cap then discharges it's stored power back into the coil . Where is the circuit return? You go from ground, up through the coil, to where? THE BALLAST. When that AC cycle is ringing, it MUST have a path back to ground. This is a fairly high voltage event, over 100 volts ON THE PRIMARY. It goes to ground through the low Z path back to the battery, that is where. It ALSO returns to ground, partially, through the radio noise suppression cap (hopefully) connected to the + terminal of the coil. That cap can never charge or discharge very far, because the "run" voltage coming from the ballast holds it at a low DC level. It is a fairly low Z to ground, compared to the quite hi V AC ringing going on.
2....NO MSD DOES NOT see DC power, it receives hi voltage switched pulses from the charged cap. The point here was, that with the key static on, no engine running, there is no power to the coil. NONE.
67,
Capacitors PASS AC current. With DC current, the cap will charge up to the supply voltage, will NOT pass current & will discharge into a load placed across it's terminals. That is how CD ign works: transformer increases the voltage to hundreds of volts, which charges up the cap with DC. At the appropriate time, the cap dumps the voltage into the primary winding of the ign coil.
Diagram below shows the DC cct & importance of polarity for dual output ign coils.
Capacitors PASS AC current. With DC current, the cap will charge up to the supply voltage, will NOT pass current & will discharge into a load placed across it's terminals. That is how CD ign works: transformer increases the voltage to hundreds of volts, which charges up the cap with DC. At the appropriate time, the cap dumps the voltage into the primary winding of the ign coil.
Diagram below shows the DC cct & importance of polarity for dual output ign coils.
Blainethemono
Well-Known Member
All my stuff was oem, 60 years old, Ill bet never replaced, so I just updated the whole thing, went with a Electronic Dizzy, HEI-style 4 pin ignition module, lower resistance ballast resister, old skool Accel Super Coil, 8mm Livewires, & some NGK Iridiums for good measure. Seems to work very well. 
[1] Did you notice a difference?
[2] You should use 050-060 plug gap with Iridiums. Be careful not to damage the centre electrode.
[3] If the Accel coil reqd a bal res with points ign, then it STILL requires a bal res with HEI.
[4] If you want a hotter spark & no bal res, use an E core coil such as MSD #8207.
[2] You should use 050-060 plug gap with Iridiums. Be careful not to damage the centre electrode.
[3] If the Accel coil reqd a bal res with points ign, then it STILL requires a bal res with HEI.
[4] If you want a hotter spark & no bal res, use an E core coil such as MSD #8207.
Blainethemono
Well-Known Member
Definitely noticed a difference.....
These Guys below say an extra 22rwhp @ 4k when you add the exhaust mod to the equation.. & yes, the dizzy kit came with the appropriate ballast resistor, however, some people are saying on the interweb that the ballast resistor question is defined by the Dizzy, & with an electronic, no points ignition system, a ballast resister is not needed. Send all the volts you can to the dizzy for maximum spark. The article below appears to confirm this as well.
P.S. Never liked MSD.... bad personal experiences.
Making Slant Six Sense
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Blaine,
After reading half of that article, I had read enough....bullshit. I have a DUI catalog, where Davis talks about the ' explosion' of the mixture. It doesn't explode & people claiming it does have no business being in the ign business.
If I read the article correctly, a change from points to DUI netted a 600 rpm in idle rpm....... to which I say BS also. While I am not a fan of points, you do not get a 600 idle rpm increase if the points ign is properly adjusted & has good quality components.
And removing vac adv......idiocy.
The DUI inferno coil.....is a canister coil....which gives less energy than an E core coil. It is a backwards move....
Using a bal res. As I said, if your Accel coil originally reqd a BR, it should be used with HEI...or risk burning out the coil due to excess current/overheating. The Inferno coil is a new design that is designed to be used WITHOUT a BR.
I have used many MSD 8207 coils, never had a problem. One has been on a car with HEI, about 12yrs now, runs low 11s.
See below what vac adv can do...
After reading half of that article, I had read enough....bullshit. I have a DUI catalog, where Davis talks about the ' explosion' of the mixture. It doesn't explode & people claiming it does have no business being in the ign business.
If I read the article correctly, a change from points to DUI netted a 600 rpm in idle rpm....... to which I say BS also. While I am not a fan of points, you do not get a 600 idle rpm increase if the points ign is properly adjusted & has good quality components.
And removing vac adv......idiocy.
The DUI inferno coil.....is a canister coil....which gives less energy than an E core coil. It is a backwards move....
Using a bal res. As I said, if your Accel coil originally reqd a BR, it should be used with HEI...or risk burning out the coil due to excess current/overheating. The Inferno coil is a new design that is designed to be used WITHOUT a BR.
I have used many MSD 8207 coils, never had a problem. One has been on a car with HEI, about 12yrs now, runs low 11s.
See below what vac adv can do...
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